How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[QualiTcare]

I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.

i agree as a parent and a care provider. when i was going to school, i worked at the "chain daycare" my kids attended. they had a naptime of 12:30 - 2:30, but in reality, they would have the kids lie down at 12 and if they weren't up by 2:30, they would let them keep sleeping. i told my son's teacher that she needed to wake him up if he wasn't up by 2:30. my kids already stay up until 10 at LEAST and letting him sleep 3-4 hours wasn't helping. my daughter who was 4 at the time got to where she no longer needed naps, along with a lot of the other 4 year olds. they would make them lie on the mats. they claim to give them books or "quiet activities" but really, they tried to make them sleep so they could break. they got downright mad and mean with the kids if they wouldn't sleep. i know. i worked there. i found it much easier for everyone to let those kids who didn't fall asleep after 30 mins come to a table with me to color or play with play dough - with the stipulation that if they got loud, they would have to lie back down. it was much easier doing that than it was trying for 2 hours to keep them quiet and still.

i'm not licensed as a daycare because i only keep 4 kids so i don't have to be. i did that on purpose because i have the freedom to let the kids sleep when they want or not make them if they don't want to. there are other advantages - like i don't have to take them outside if it's 33 degrees outside and they're all coughing. the parents love it because their kids can sleep when they want to instead of when my schedule says they have to. i don't have to stop serving breakfast at a certain time, etc. parents like that because if they're running late, their kids don't have to starve until snack time because the state says i have a cutoff time. i can basically operate like a "babysitter" but i don't charge like a babysitter. there's a difference though in being licensed and not being licensed.

[Unregistered]

Nap time

I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.

Not all children need a nap. At 3 years old it is a given, among many parents that children do not nap anymore or they do not need one because they will not go to bed at night. It is like this way with ALL my friends and their kids too! Your kids were just different. Their bodies are changing. All 3 of my children are up late if they take a nap and my friends' kids too! Parents are blessed if their children take naps and then do not go to bed late at 3 and 4 years old. Your one child that is falling asleep within 5 minutes is just used to falling asleep at that time and it doesn't help her/him that the other children are going to sleep too! The parents want her to stay up so that she will go to bed. She just needs to get used to it. They are probably going out of their minds and you don't care. When children are babies parents may have a later bedtime for children because their sleep changes with age. I bet you that most of your parents do not tell you how late their children are up because of your nap policy. If you be respectful of other parents then you won't have problems. Maybe you can have an area for children whose parents do not want them to nap where they can do quiet activities and cal it "quiet time." Have you heard of "quiet time?" It is what children do when they are 3 years and up instead of napping so that they do not stay up all hours of the night. If you advertise that, I can guarantee you will have more business than anyone!! Having that child sit on the mat is telling that child that it is nap time. You need to take away the mat! This is very simple!

[Janet]

Nap time requirement

OK, to the poster who said to take the naptime mat away, this is not always a possibility. I understand that some kids give up their naps, but that's not my problem. In the state that I live in, a rest/nap time is legally required for kids that are under the age of 6 if they are in care for more than 5 hours a day. I don't tell my kids that they have to sleep, but they do have to rest. It just so happens that ALL of my dcks fall asleep so that tells me that they need the nap. Also, I think that the quiet place, like a mat for example, is necessary in order for a "quiet time" to happen. When was the last time that you tried to get a 3 year old to play quietly while all of the other kids were sleeping? Besides, it's really not fair to let one kid skip rest time while every other kid has a nap time. Plain and simple, kids need time daily to unwind, even if they don't want to sleep. And providers need time to unwind as well, and that's impossible to do if you are trying to keep one child quiet enough so as to not wake up all of the other sleeping kids.

[[email protected]]

I tell my families that Here,..ALL children nap,.. if they arent going to bed at night maybe they should get up earlier in the mornings. ??? If that doesnt help maybe a new provider is needed that caters to that niche. I personally dont. I refuse to have kids grouchy at 330 in the afternoon because they havent had a nap and all whiney and mad. Not getting along with their friends because their parent doesnt want them to nap so they go to bed at the parents choice for a bedtime. I understand that some kids need naps,.. and by about 4 some dont,.. but,... When they outgrow their nap,.. they outgrow me. I offer a service and if it doesnt fit your needs,.. by all means, find one that does. No hard feelings. Im up front about my routines and nap times. If Im not a fit for you then good luck to you in finding someone who is.

[melissa ann]

IMO, 3 yr olds need a nap. I have kids from 13 months -5 1/2 yrs old. And I will tell you, that they all nap. The 5 1/2 is my daughter. Now, sometimes after lunch, she wil stay up and work on a craft but after about 30 mins or so, she says she's tired and wants to rest. The 3 dck arrive around 6 am and are here until 5. They definetly need a nap. Sometimes, the grandpa of the 4 yr old says that he's outgrown his nap, but I can honestly tell you that he almost always the first one to fall asleep. The kids don't have to sleep. After 30-45 mins or so I will check on them and on the rare occasions when someone is still awake, I will take them in the kitchen to color, do a puzzle or some other quiet activity. But those instances are few and far between.

[Unregistered]

Daycare Naps

My soon to be 4 year old is in daycare and takes a nap. HE DOES NOT NEED A NAP AT 4! He sleeps 2 hours from 1-3pm and then is up until 10:30-11ap at night and it is killing me. Yes, I do have control over my child. I think if the parent does not want their child to take a nap you should respect that. After all we have EMPLOYED YOU! My son does not take naps on the weekend and is in bed by 8-8:30 has a good nights sleep and is fine throught the day. I can't believe some of the respones on here!! My daycare is now working with me and waking my son up early from his nap. I would respect the parents wishes if you want to keep your business.

I run a family daycare and in the state of Maryland it is a requirement that the children get a 2 hour nap/rest period. I give all the kids a nap from 12:30-2:30 -ish. I have one parent who told her 4 year old, not to nap at my house anymore. I do not insist that she sleep, but lay down quietly. She is allowed to read books, etc., as long as she is quiet for the other kids. She is the 1st one asleep everyday. She falls asleep within 5 minutes of laying down. Her parents have always allowed her to stay awake at night till 10:30-11:30 from the time she was an infant. Now they think she is staying awake that late because of the nap. I need to add, she is only here part-time, but goes to bed everynight that late. Every child I have ever watched including my own, have taken naps and still go to bed by 8-8:30. I feel that the parents are blaming me and my nap policy for their child not going to bed at night, when I feel it is their lack of dicipline on getting their child on a decent schedule. Any opinions would be appreciated, however, with all the new centers opening around us, I cannot afford to tick people off. In my area, alot of home providers are struggling and I know they can go just about anywhere.

[Janet]

To the parent of the 4 year old napper...

I'm glad that you found a provider who is willing to work with you, but you can't just assume that your child's need to not nap trumps the needs of the other children who do need a nap and the provider who deserves a small break. It's also very presumptuous of you to say that your daycare provider "works for you". I''ve got a news flash for you...you are NOT her employer. She is her own boss and she can replace you just as easily as you can replace her. It's also not her problem if your child won't go to sleep at the regular bed time. Every single kid in my care takes naps and they all go to bed for their parents at a pretty regular time. Even if my daycare kids didn't go to bed for their parents until super late, that is still not my problem. My daughter was not a napper either, but I never objected to them trying to get her to nap and I never objected to her having to lay quirtly for rest time.

[mismatchedsocks]

I have been on both sides of the fence. I sent my kid to a daycare center, and now I run my own family daycare. I take kids ages 5 weeks to 12 years old. Lets start at the daycare center my son went to. He was an infant but I read up on naps, thinking that my child would be there until he was in school. They have a mandatory "quiet" time from 12-3. If your child does not fall asleep and is being loud then they are brought to another room with the awake children. This is not always available for home daycares....

so now on to my own home daycare. I have watched many older children ages 3-5. Each one is different. I try to stress early bedtime, especially with drop off being at 6-7am, which means the kids get up even earlier! The majority of the time when I hear "my kid wont sleep at night" I just let them know that their child falls asleep quickly and obviously still needs a nap, so I try to work with them on ways to get them to sleep at night.
Now for the children that do not fall asleep easily, I usually find this out within a few weeks of starting here, we do something a bit different. Those kids are usually 4 or 5 years old. They will help me set up the younger ones for nap, then help me clean up kitchen and play room "as quiet as they can". One 5 year old I had played peekaboo with the newborn I had that obviously was not on a schedule. Then after I am done cleaning I explained to the kids who were helping me out, that it was time for everyone even me to have quiet time. They would get their mat and lay down, and I think it helped because they considered themselves older, and having a privilage was nice to their self esteem. Most times those kids fell asleep, even if for an hour, but woke up refreshed and proud.

I hope that it all works out for you, and you can either get a system that works for your child and provider. I really suggest the "helping" with the older kids. It has helped me alot in the last 10 years!

[bre1313]

If it wasnt' for nap time I'd go bonkers! I have a child lay down for 20-30 minutes and if they are still awake they can get a few books to laydown with. After another 20 mintues they can color or put some puzzles together at the craft table. No fuss, you don't have to go to sleep, but you need to respect others that do need a nap.

[HeatherB]

Is this your buisness or their buisness? Your rules are your rules.. tell they parent that you offer her to read book quietly on the cot but she chooses to sleep. Let her sleep.

[Unregistered]

to frustrated mommy...and everyone else

wow this was a heated discussion!!...and alot was said on both parts...

first off i am a mom of 4 kids (9-17 years old) and i will tell you they all needed and napped!!!

i am also a daycare provider IN AYLMER...Two 9 daycare kiddies...ages 20 months-5 years...AND ALL MY KIDDIES NAP OR AT LEAST REST...EACH DAY....

some days are harder than others...but THE GENRAL RULE IS IF THEY HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE ....THEY NAP....

WHEN THE CPE HAS BEEN IN DURING NAP TIME THEY ALWAYS COMMENT HOW WELL MY KIDDIES SLEEP....

I DO HAVE 1 LITTLE ONE (OFF TO SCHOOL THIS FALL) WHO FIGHTS HIS NAP AND WILL TRY AND DISTURB THE REST....HE IS MOVED TO ANOTHER AREA SO HE CAN NOT WAKE THE OTHERS...
EVEN HIM HE NEEDS A NAP OR IS WINNY....

as for $$$$ and holidays....YES IN QUEBEC WE CAN PUT IT INTO OUR CONTRACT....BUT THAT IS IF YOU ARE PRIVET...

ONCE YOU ARE SUBVENTED....THE PARENTS HAVE TO PAY THERE PORTION...BUT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT PAY THERE PORTION....CURRENTLY WE ARE FIGHTING THIS...WE ARE WITH A UNION.....AND ARE WORKING ON MAKING THESE CHANGES...

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SITUATION.....AND I AM SAD TO HERE THAT YOU HAVE HAD TO HAVE 2 KIDS IN 2 DIFFRENT DAYCARES...ESPECIALY THAT YOU ARE RUNNING AROUND TILL 6 PM...NOT EASY ON ANYONE!!

[FrustratedMommy]

Napping

That is right, I forgot that the government doesn't pay their portion.

Both kids are in the same daycare now, that is why I am fighting so hard to keep them there.

The lady went on vacation for two weeks, and we put the kids in another daycare temporarily. My 3.5 year old slept very well, and now that she is back at the normal daycare she is sleeping again. It has been two weeks and she had one day where she was resistant to sleep. The lady says she has to stay in the room a long time with her, but I think she has gotten used to it now.

She is sleeping very well at home, although we have an odd day where she will play in her room rather than sleeping. I just worry that if she is resisting nap now, what will happen when she gets closer to 4. Hopefully by then she will be more emotionally mature and will be able to rest quietly without waking the others.

I also notice the days she complained that my little one didn't nap were rainy days where they didn't get outside. She is very good about taking them outside in the summer though. They walk 10 blocks to a park almost every day, and since my daughter is the oldest she walks while the other kids ride in the stroller.

[professionalmom]

WOW!!! I can't believe this! We are cleaning up after the daycare children- sweeping, doing dishes, cleaning off tables, highchairs, putting away toys, washing bibs, blankets, sometimes clothes, towels, washclothes, getting afternoon activity together, running copies, the list goes on and on with everything!!!!

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!! But you forgot about PAPERWORK!! There is an infinite amount of paperwork that goes along with running any business, especially daycare. Just the food program that I am on, costs me 30-40 minutes a day because I have to report who I fed and what I fed them, each and every night. If they show up on Tuesday and Monday's meals are not recorded, I don't get reimbursement for that. Then there's taxes (keeping track of everything everyday so it doesn't take a week to do the taxes at tax time), reporting to DHS, reading updated laws, revising contracts and policies, etc. Then there's the curriculum planning! Just try to turn on a computer with the kids running about. And if you're open 12+ hours a day, then by the time you do the "housework" and paperwork after hours, you have spent 16 hours on daycare and ZERO on your own family.

[Lucy]

I am a parent of a 4 year old and to be honest, I am appalled at the comments made by some daycare providers on this message board. Wow. Ms. Sue: "It's not the child with the issue- it's the parents - as usual". How presumptuous and wrong you are. I am a teacher, and we are taught that the parents are the first and most important "teachers" of their children.

My son, even though he does not need a nap would always nap given the opportunity-- placed in a quiet dark room...of course he would. So would I. And this was the case at his in-home daycare. I spoke with the provider, whom he loved, and she was as stubborn as you all, and said all kids must rest for those two hours. Since he was the oldest child at daycare, she was UNWILLING to make an exception for him. And since he regularly fell asleep, she did not listen to me, and ASSUMED that I was WRONG and she was RIGHT.

When he was at home, he never napped and was fine. He would go to bed at a reasonable hour (8:00) and wake up around 7:00. When he would go to daycare and had a nap, he consistently said "I'm not tired! I'm not tired!" at night and would be up until 10:30. This was not due to my LACK of parenting skills or ability. He was TRULY not tired.

Turns out, I pulled him from his daycare which he loved for this VERY reason. He is now at Montessori preschool and flourishing. They do not require a nap and he is doing lovely, on a regular schedule and learning/playing for two extra hours instead of being forced to nap. I am so happy I made this decision.

Parents know best. And if you are unwilling to meet a reasonable request in the best interest of the child then you shouldn't be practicing daycare.

AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.

[nannyde]

AMEN!!!!!! I am a home Daycare Provider, and I do NOT force naps on those who do not benefit from them. The little ones nap in bedrooms and the bigger ones play quiet games or visit my play yard. Why is that so hard? Why must Providers be so regimented and FORCE naps upon kids? Every kid is different. They have different needs. Providers, of all people, should recognize and respect this. Let the kids be individuals. Yes, there are exceptions. There are kids who will try to refuse, but they really do need one or else they are hellions. I'm speaking of the ones who genuinely do not benefit from a nap, and in fact stay up late because of it. It's not healthy. I so wish Providers would recognize this. As far as your break, I'm sure you have times where kids are playing independently when you can sit down with a cup of tea for 10 minutes. Or when most of them are napping and just your non-nappers are up, I'm sure you can find some time to clean your kitchen. The non-nappers are old enough to play for a time while you get your chores done. I just don't get it, and I never will.

Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".