How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[misol]

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".

Nowhere did I blame a parent for any issue.

I am not so concerned with children making a mess in my house - that is expected and comes with this line of work. What I am concerned with is people who think that they should get a lunch break while they are on their job but that I shouldn't get a break while I am on mine. I am sure that all the teachers at your child's school take breaks. And I am certain that they clean up during business hours too. So I'm not sure what you meant when you said I reaffirmed your decision to choose a center over a home daycare.

I re-read my post and becasue of the caps I may have sounded a bit harsh. I was merely trying to point out that we are not at home doing our own personal chores all day. This business REQUIRES upkeep of the home. So when we are cleaning, doing dishes, sweeping, etc. while on our "break", we are in fact, doing our jobs. My nap/rest period is for 2 hours but between the late drifters and the early risers, I am lucky to get half an hour of uninterrupted time each 11-hour day. The children still have to be monitored even while they are sleeping. So, unless a provider is fortunate enough to have an assistant, there is really no "break" until the last child leaves for the day.

I think that grandmom has the best suggestion.

[MarinaVanessa]

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare. My child is in a school setting and thank goodness. If you are so concerned with OUR children making messes then you shouldn't be running a business out of YOUR home. Also...the parents are paying your salary...why do you have to be so harsh and blame them for every single issue? All I have to say is, "wow!".

I also didn't remember any comments made about how she is concerened with children making messes. A went back and re-read them and all I saw was a provider talking about tasks that needed to be done.

Reading these posts especially misol just re-affims that fact that I made a great decision not sending my child to a home based daycare..

This comment right here is like saying that all home provider's follow the same policy which is just like saying that all parent's are the cause of their children's issues which seems to me that is what sparked a debate. I know that we don't all have the same nap policy. I have nap/quiet time. Notice that there is a slash between nap & quiet which I have also noticed in some of the comments above. Everyone in my care is required to participate in either nap or quiet time but I never force the children to sleep. If they can keep quiet they can still do activities such as reading in the book nook, coloring, drawing etc. If they make too much noise then they need to lay down quetly with a book. I do not force them to sleep just like I don't force them to stay awake. We do a lot of physical activites here and if a child wants to nap and happens to fall asleep during this time then I will not stop him/her even at a parent's request. I explain this to all of my families from the beginning so that they are aware because the way I see it is if the child falls asleep then they are tired. If a child sleeps for two-hours then I will coax them into getting up but usually this is not a problem because after about an hour I will start an activity with the children (still quiet) that are awake and this usually wakes the rest of them. I don't believe that forcing a child to participate in any activity is helpful including keeping a child awake.

Also, I require all children to at least stay quiet during this time as a common courtesy to the rest of the kids who do want to nap. Letting one child disturb the rest of the children is unfair not only to the provider but to the other children as well. In my home-based daycare I teach common courtesy, manners, and mutual respect for everybody which I believe is very lacking in our youngsters today. This time is a great opportunity for children to learn that they need to be aware of those around them.

[Chickenhauler]

For the exact same reason that everyone else needs a break when they are at work - duh!

Under normal working conditions, it is required by law that employers give hourly employees a break after working a certain amount of hours a day. Employees tyically spend this "break" eating lunch, running personal errands, or doing another personal activity of their choice. Why would you think that a home daycare provider would not be entitled to the same "break" that people who work outside the home are entitled to? And just to enlighten you, most of our "own" chores are actually a direct result of having YOUR children in our home. We do laundry which includes linens and clothing that YOUR children have soiled, we do dishes that YOUR children have dirtied, we sweep and mop floors that YOUR child have dumped their lunch all over, and sometimes we start preparing dinner in the afternoon which quite often will also be lunch for YOUR children the next day. So, if it makes you feel any better, we are actually still working through our "break".

Welcome to being self employed.

If you think you have it tough doing daycare, come with me for a week.

70+ hours in 6 days, all kinds of climates and weather, and on the 7th day, I don't get to rest, I do maintenance and repairs (and deal with daycare kids)

But, it's what I do for a living. We all do stuff that is dirty, unglamorous and challenging.

[Janet]

WOW! This thread took a sudden turn!

As far as the sleeping goes, I take the approach that even the kids don't sleep, they still need to have a rest time. Also, I don't wake kids up, their bodies will let them know how long that they need to sleep.

For the people who are giving the home providers a tough time for needing the time to have a break of their own during nap and for using the time to clean up, until you have personally provided care for children that are not yours, save your judgements. We have to have the time to clean up from meals, snacks and to sanitize toys between uses and nap time is an excellent time to do these things. We don't have the luxury of waiting until all of the kids are gone before cleaning our homes. Think about how gross that would be if sweeping didn't get done after meals, or the dishes just piled up all day long. Think about if the provider didn't sanitize the toys often throughout the day. If you picked up your child from a daycare home that was a pigsty, it wouldn't instill much confidence in the provider, would it? We have to have the down time to get some of these things done because when our kids wake up, we want to give them all of our attention, so naptime makes sense to get things done.

[Amadia]

Crazy Thread

Reading threads like this one make me so thankful for the amazing families I have in my daycare. People who respect the amount of time, effort, energy, money and love I invest in their children. I spend my day teaching preschool, doing crafts, going on field trips, playing outside and doing many other activites; nap time is the only time I have to do dishes, pickup toys, sweep and all the other things that keep my home up to the standards that I as a parent would expect from my daycare. This isn't the type of break that parents get, I'm still working! But I love it and it is so worth all the time.

As for my children who don't want to take naps...my policy is it's quiet time so that means they need to be quiet. They have to stay on their mat but I give them books, puzzles, and sticker books to look at/play with. But if a child lays on their sleeping mat and falls asleep while looking at a book I definetly would not wake them up b/c a parent doesn't want them to nap. Napping is important at that age. And since I dont have a television there would be no other quiet activity I could offer them.

[FrustratedMommy]

Daycare Napping Issues

I have a three year old girl who is also resisting nap, but mainly at daycare. At home she has her own room. We put her to bed at the same time as the daycare to try and accomodate her routine. Mostly my DD will nap at home, sometimes she plays quietly in her bed, sometimes she makes noise and I have to go and tell her to go to sleep. The rule of thumb is, if I don't hear her, I assume she is sleeping.

She always goes to bed with very little complaints at 8:00pm. Since we have been having napping issues, we have been keeping her up until 8:30pm to try and help the daycare lady.

At daycare she has been refusing to lay down with the other kids, and is being defient about it to the daycare lady.

I have asked the daycare lady if she has tried giving her a book, her letting her come down and watch TV on the couch. The daycare lady's response to the book was she "rustles" and wakes the other kid. When I suggested the TV she said, "She sits for 10 min and then begins to run." I tried giving her a backpack of quiet toys from home, that I know she sits quietly and plays with. She put her in the snack room where there is just one other baby in a playpen. She apparently threw her books around and made a lot of noise to attempt to wake up the other baby.

I have tried writing her a special story, where she is the main character about a girl who doesn't like naps but falls alseep and has an adventure, so I tell her to close her eyes and think about going on an adventure.

I have tried giving her chocolate (which we hate doing) when she sleeps. Now if she doesn't nap at daycare, I take her home and give her a nap at home rather than taking her to the park like I usually do. The first time I did that it worked for a week, but then yesterday she refused to nap again.

I know the daycare lady prefers babies to toddlers, and she told us in the interview that she usually doesn't take toddlers but since she had my 18month old she would keep my 3 year old. My three year old has been the oldest since she started there. The second oldest turned three and was kicked out shortly thereafter for being agressive. She raves about how much she loves my 18 month old but complains every day about my three year old. She doesn't eat, she doesn't sleep.

Honestly, with regards to the eating, if she doesn't eat, put the food in front of her, if she doesn't eat, take it away. What is the big deal. She is not starving. I never have these problems at home.

I think I am doing everything in my power to help the daycare lady, but I am so tired of hearing her complain every day about my daughter. My three year old behaves quite well at home. She sleeps, she eats with minimal complaining, she likes to help. Even at daycare she never hits other kids, she shares.

Is it normal for the daycare provider to complain so much, and seem not to come up with any ideas herself to fix the problem? I feel like as soon as there is a problem, the daycare lady wants me to fix it. Isn't it part of your job to maintain disicpline in your daycare? There is only so much I can do as I am not there. It doesn't really work to discipline a child after the fact.

Does anybody else have any other ideas for getting a child to lay down? I am scared the daycare lady is going to kick her out.

I live in Quebec and the daycare is subsidized, so we pay it in our Tahsis; however, finding a spot here is nearly impossible. This daycare is at least very kind. I had one who was very cold and complained that my daughter had diahrea all the time. She serverd my daughter pizza and chicken nuggets all the time. As soon as we switched and she had real food, the diahrea stopped.

Basically, the subsidized daycare situation makes it a sellers market. They have 20 kids lined up for your spot so they don't really have to put in any effort. If they don't like the kid, they just kick them out and take another one. Then you end up paying $25 a day on top of paying the taxes.

[judytrickett]

I have a motto and I really mean it:

If your child has outgrown their nap they have outgrown my daycare.

ALL children nap here or they are no longer in care. Period.

[Vesta]

Frustrated Mom
I would start looking for a new daycare ASAP.
Nap is considered by *most* (not all, I know you're out there) providers as an essential part of the day to recharge out batteries and get things ready for the afternoon.
That doesn't happen when you are trying to keep a 3 year old from waking up the other kids. If she was being quiet it might not be an issue, but it sounds like she may be trying to keep things lively.
I've been in this situation before and it made me miserable.
11 hours and no break, the worst 2 hours of my day were the two hours I spent trying to keep a 3.5 year old from waking everyone else up. It didn't last too long, because I had to ask the family to find care elsewhere.
It really sounds like your daughter is engaging in a bit of a power struggle with your provider and I would guess it's not working out well for either of them.

[FrustratedMommy]

Problem Solve or Quit

Wow, it sounds like being a childcare provider is the only profession in which you can bail out as soon as a challenge presents itself. I am a computer programmer and if I quit and changed jobs every time I had to track down a difficult bug or deal with an issue I had never experienced before I would not only never find another contract, but I would also never learn anything. Meeting challenges is what makes me a better programmer. Likewise for your profession. When you have a power struggle with a child, you need to learn to diffuse the situation.

My daycare provider has a parent who is bending over backwards to back her up, or provide her with ideas to deal with the situation. When we actually solve this problem, she will become a better daycare provider since she will have learned new methods and techniques to deal with any other children that come along and I will become a better parent since I will learn new ways of working with my child. Dealing with children is a learning experience.

Finding another daycare in Aylmer is not so easy, especially if I want both my kids at the same daycare. My 18 month old will be challening to place because nobody wants babies. I moved my three year old from her old daycare to here because that woman didn't like babies.

This one loves babies, hates toddlers. My little one cries before nap and only sleeps for an hour but she doesn't complain about that since she just puts her in a playpen in another room. She can't do that with my three old so she gets in trouble.

When she is home, if I need to cook or do dishes or chores, my three year old will just follow me around and 'help' or stay out of the way. As long as I chat with her she lets me get my work done. I don't understand how at daycare she can be such a troublemaker. It is like she is watching a completely different child. My 18 month old on the other hand has temper tantrum after temper tantrum and the daycare provider raves about her.

I suspect, she just doesn't like toddlers so she is just going to complain about her until I move her so she won't have to look after her anymore. She just doesn't want to bother to work with her.

[Vesta]

Yes, of course, you're right. She just does not want to work with your daughter. That's why she's a home provider. She was looking for an easy job where she gets to call all of the shots while parents are blackmailed into paying her loads of money to entertain their children for a couple of hours each day.
She obviously has no idea how to work with or care for children and you should be looking for care elsewhere.
Maybe you could print out a copy of your post and give it to her to help her understand what you are expecting. Even better, take some copies with you when you are on your search for a new provider. I'm sure they will be delighted to read it.

[mac60]

I took Vesta's post as being serious. I am sorry, so I deleted my original post to it.

[nannyde]

Wow, it sounds like being a childcare provider is the only profession in which you can bail out as soon as a challenge presents itself. I am a computer programmer and if I quit and changed jobs every time I had to track down a difficult bug or deal with an issue I had never experienced before I would not only never find another contract, but I would also never learn anything. Meeting challenges is what makes me a better programmer. Likewise for your profession. When you have a power struggle with a child, you need to learn to diffuse the situation.

My daycare provider has a parent who is bending over backwards to back her up, or provide her with ideas to deal with the situation. When we actually solve this problem, she will become a better daycare provider since she will have learned new methods and techniques to deal with any other children that come along and I will become a better parent since I will learn new ways of working with my child. Dealing with children is a learning experience.

Finding another daycare in Aylmer is not so easy, especially if I want both my kids at the same daycare. My 18 month old will be challening to place because nobody wants babies. I moved my three year old from her old daycare to here because that woman didn't like babies.

This one loves babies, hates toddlers. My little one cries before nap and only sleeps for an hour but she doesn't complain about that since she just puts her in a playpen in another room. She can't do that with my three old so she gets in trouble.

When she is home, if I need to cook or do dishes or chores, my three year old will just follow me around and 'help' or stay out of the way. As long as I chat with her she lets me get my work done. I don't understand how at daycare she can be such a troublemaker. It is like she is watching a completely different child. My 18 month old on the other hand has temper tantrum after temper tantrum and the daycare provider raves about her.

I suspect, she just doesn't like toddlers so she is just going to complain about her until I move her so she won't have to look after her anymore. She just doesn't want to bother to work with her.

Ow wow

Okay... I don't provide services to kids who don't need a full afternoon nap. It's not discriminatory. I just don't offer that service. It's in my policies and the parents know it from the first meeting. If at ANY time their child does not need a FULL afternoon nap then my services will not meet their needs. I'm all about what the kid needs. I'm all about the parents choosing what the kid needs. I believe there are oodles and zillions of birth to five kids who don't need an afternoon nap. Your child seems to be one of them. I just don't offer THAT service HERE.

I don't need techniques or a learning experience to manage your kid during nap. It's really very simple. Either you are having the kid up and active or you are not. There's nothing to learn about. There's nothing special about the request. There's nothing unusual to find kids who don't want or need a nap and parents who agree. It's VERY common. The provider doesn't need an education or strategies. She just needs to make a decision as to whether or not she provides direct care to up and awake children during her nap time. If she does not offer that than it's time to move on.

You would think by your post that's there is some kind of rocket science to this. It's SO simple. There's no "ideas" to deal with the sitatuion. There's no need for a plan. There's no "follow me around and as long as I engage you you will LET me work"????????

Your child is not being a troublemaker. She just being UP. That's the problem. It's not a bump in the road where the provider needs to learn new strategies or methods. It's just a situation where your provider wants ALL the kids to rest QUIETLY while laying DOWN during nap and you and your kid don't want to do that. It's time to move on and find some day care that allows a three year old to be up. Good luck with that.

[FrustratedMommy]

Hopeless

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

[judytrickett]

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

So, let's say you are looking for a job:

Job A - NO break allowed, crappy co-workers that stress you out because they just won't work with the group. And a boss that constantly complains that even though you are working ALL day with no break and listening to your co-workes whine all day that you need to just suck it up.

Job B - Two 15 minute breaks and an hour long lunch. Co-workers that work WITH you and help to provide a fun, loving environment. Oh, and a boss that constantly tells you they are happy with what you are doing.

Hmmmm............let's see...what job would most people choose??

[judytrickett]

This accusation in my opinion, is very inapproprite. I hope you choose to go back and edit the accusations that you have made directed towards home daycare providers.

Couldn't agree more.