How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[FrustratedMommy]

That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.

[Vesta]

This accusation in my opinion, is very inapproprite. I hope you choose to go back and edit the accusations that you have made directed towards home daycare providers.

Vesta, Question here......Are you serious in your post, or being sarcastic, someone pointed out I may have misunderstood your post, Obviously, I took it seriously. I apologize if I misunderstood it.

Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.

[mac60]

Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.

I am sorry I took it as serious. I went back and edited my own post on it.

[nannyde]

Ufortunately, that would mean I would never find daycare. Here for each spot, there are 20 kids lined up for each spot. If your child has any challenges at all, they dump you and find another kid.

What I am hearing from this post is that all daycare providers are like this. None of them actually like children, or maybe they like children as long as they are complacent and easy to deal with.

The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

I also have two children, so maybe I could find a place that is absolutely perfect for my three year old, but would my 18 month old be happy there? Should I leave my 18 month old with this lady for another year until she gets to old for her, and just move my three year old? Then I would be picking them up at two different places, perhaps on opposite ends of the city, and I would have to move the baby eventually anyway since I am sure as soon as she turns 3 the daycare lady will decide she doesn't like her anymore.

What I am looking for, is advice from a daycare provider who perhaps encountered this situation and not run from it. What did you do to fix it? Perhaps there are some ideas I can pass on to my provider in the hopes that she will not kick my daughter out in favour of a complacent, easy child.

Run from it? You are assuming that it's the big bad wolf of day care experiences. There's nothing to run from!!!! Do you seriously think this is a big deal? Do you really think someone needs an education or experience to deal with this. THIS IS SIMPLE. You either have a kid UP who you are providing direct care and supervision to while they are up or you don't. Why is it hard to understand that this is NOT hard to understand.

If you can't find a day care that will work with your family's needs then quit work and YOU keep your kid up 14-16 straight hours a day and see how that works for you.

You said: The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

YES the provider gets to decide. It's her house. Her business. Her livlihood. You don't expect McDonalds to offer sushi do you? They get to decide what they offer. If they don't want cloth diapers then no cloth diapers. If they don't want to care for kids that have aggression then no kids with aggression. If they don't need a FULL afternoon nap then only take and keep the kids who need a FULL afternoon nap.

Bottom line is that you want a service that she doesn't offer. It feels like you want some sort of comprimise that leads to a YES for you and your 3 year old. Let me give you a little insider day care info: There's no gray when it comes to having a kid up at nap. Most providers I know look at it like this: If one is up they might as well all be up. The break in the middle of a long day that most providers want and need can not be done if ANY kid is up during nap. It's the COMPLETE quiet of her home that recharges her. It's a FULL two hour break that she looks forward to. ANYTHING that comprimises that will end up meaning she simply doesn't get a break. Even if that something is an easy three year old who will "let" her work as long as she is being talked to while the provider is working.

If there are so many more kids than providers than my suggestion is offer her a high hourly rate for having only YOUR kid up at nap. An extra ten dollars an hour during nap time might well solve this. If the provider can make another 100 bucks a week for the two hours she is doing one to one then you guys may strike a deal. That's how I manage requests to have the kid up at nap. We will do it but my staff assistant must be paid during that time to one to one the child. She's ten bucks an hour on TOP of the regular salary. So yes... we can keep your three year old up but YES we have to charge extra for it. Expecting her to do it without substantially raising her rate of pay is going to cause problems. She might be willing to do it as long as you pay the "nanny" rate for the one to one she will HAVE to receive during this time.

Nan

[judytrickett]

Goodness no I'm not being serious.
It's what the mom believes so why not just placate her and send her on her way.
Except for the part about showing providers her post. That would be great to let unsuspecting new providers know what they are in for.

Whew....good to know.....

[Vesta]

I am sorry I took it as serious. I went back and edited my own post on it.

That's okay, caffeine hadn't kicked in yet so I was a little on the pi$$y side.

I'll go back and add a little tongue sticking out emoticon.

Okay, never mind, I guess you can't do that when you edit.

[judytrickett]

That is true, and for not much pay either; however, for some reason people do choose this job. Nobody is saying it is easy.

Although, I don't know what you are talking about with an hour long lunch. Most jobs here are 7.5 hours work, with a half hour lunch or 8 hours with 1/2 lunch and two 15 min breaks. I don't know anybody who has an hour lunch.

Plus if you have ever worked in an office, you sit in a cube all day, half the time you are bored because they don't have any work for you, so you need to 'look' busy. You cannot do anything that even looks remotely like you are goofing off, such as reading, surfing the internet. They walk by and look at your screen. You need to have your compiler up at all times, be in your seat and find something to occupy your mind that is not noticeable. Or you are incredibly busy and working through lunch because you have a deadline to meet, and no, you don't get paid overtime for this. Programmers are generally control freaks, so they fight all the time, misunderstand each other and it is not a fun, loving environment, and the boss rarely tells you when you do good work, but certainly points out when you mess up. This is life. This is the job I chose. I come in every day and do my best.

Daycare providers choose their job too. There are pros and cons to every job and EVERY job is hard. Pick one and do your best at it. Try and work with your boss to make it a good environment. If you don't like your job, you always have the option of doing something else. Yes, I know it is challenging to change careers, that is one of the reasons I am still here. I don't want to take a paycut.

I am sure you get rewards too, like when your kids don't want to go home because daycare is so much fun, or when you were there when the baby walked for the first time and the parents were stuck in a cubicle. There must be a reason why you do this job, or else you wouldn't do it.

Um..yeah....and most daycare providers work a TEN hour day or more. Most providers do NOT get vacation pay, we certainly don't get health benefits and we have wear and tear on our homes.

And NO, I am NOT complaining. But I also think you can not compare apples to oranges.

And YEP, it is a CHOICE. But, just like WE chose to provide home daycare YOU chose to go to work outside the home in whatever field YOU chose. And therefore YOU chose to place your child in daycare. And by doing so you CHOSE to relinquish some control over every aspect of your child.

Just like when you send your child off to school - YOU do NOT get to chose every single thing that happens there. Schools have rules and standards and if you want to keep your child in school you follow those rules. Daycare is really no different in that respect.

Just a thought but....you seem to have A LOT of self admitted obstacles to finding care that is suitable to you. Perhaps the problem lies not in all the providers but in what you want or expect or deem appropriate.

I know that as a provider who knows A LOT of other providers Golden Families are VERY much wanted in our care. We seek them out and sign them on in a hearbeat.

[judytrickett]

Run from it? You are assuming that it's the big bad wolf of day care experiences. There's nothing to run from!!!! Do you seriously think this is a big deal? Do you really think someone needs an education or experience to deal with this. THIS IS SIMPLE. You either have a kid UP who you are providing direct care and supervision to while they are up or you don't. Why is it hard to understand that this is NOT hard to understand.

If you can't find a day care that will work with your family's needs then quit work and YOU keep your kid up 14-16 straight hours a day and see how that works for you.

You said: The provider interviews the child and parent to see if they are easy and complacent to work with, if not, they go to the next in line. If you use cloth diapers, if your child hits, or doesn't want to nap, next in line please.

YES the provider gets to decide. It's her house. Her business. Her livlihood. You don't expect McDonalds to offer sushi do you? They get to decide what they offer. If they don't want cloth diapers then no cloth diapers. If they don't want to care for kids that have aggression then no kids with aggression. If they don't need a FULL afternoon nap then only take and keep the kids who need a FULL afternoon nap.

Bottom line is that you want a service that she doesn't offer. It feels like you want some sort of comprimise that leads to a YES for you and your 3 year old. Let me give you a little insider day care info: There's no gray when it comes to having a kid up at nap. Most providers I know look at it like this: If one is up they might as well all be up. The break in the middle of a long day that most providers want and need can not be done if ANY kid is up during nap. It's the COMPLETE quiet of her home that recharges her. It's a FULL two hour break that she looks forward to. ANYTHING that comprimises that will end up meaning she simply doesn't get a break. Even if that something is an easy three year old who will "let" her work as long as she is being talked to while the provider is working.

If there are so many more kids than providers than my suggestion is offer her a high hourly rate for having only YOUR kid up at nap. An extra ten dollars an hour during nap time might well solve this. If the provider can make another 100 bucks a week for the two hours she is doing one to one then you guys may strike a deal. That's how I manage requests to have the kid up at nap. We will do it but my staff assistant must be paid during that time to one to one the child. She's ten bucks an hour on TOP of the regular salary. So yes... we can keep your three year old up but YES we have to charge extra for it. Expecting her to do it without substantially raising her rate of pay is going to cause problems. She might be willing to do it as long as you pay the "nanny" rate for the one to one she will HAVE to receive during this time.

Nan

As usual, Nan......I LOVE what you just said. Right ON the mark.

[FrustratedMommy]

In Quebec daycare providers get two weeks paid vacation or more if they put it in their contract. The daycare is open 7-5, so yes that is almost a 10 hour day. They are not allowed to charge more. They get x amount from the government and x amount from the parent. I can't offer her more.

My child naps at home for at least 2 hours, it is only at daycare that she refuses to nap. I wonder why I can get her to nap and nap for 2 to 3 hours, but the daycare lady can't.

I would love to stay home with my children, but I would lose my house, so I guess I will just keep trying to solve this problem on my own, since nobody seems to have any ideas.

Honestly, you may all think I am a b**ch, but how many parents do you know that back up their daycare provider. I am not telling my child not to nap at her house. I am telling her to listen to the daycare provider, because she is the grown up and you are the kid. I am doing everything in my power to support the daycare provider. When she brings up issues

My kid does not hit, is not hyper or agressive, is very sweet and affectionate, gnerally well behaved. She is also now completely potty trained. Plus she hugs another baby at the daycare (not my 18 month old)that cries all the time, keeping her quiet so the daycare lady doesn't have to hold that baby all day long. She just has a stubborn streak. I don't believe this makes her inelligable for daycare. If the daycare lady kicks her out, she will be missing out on an accomidating parent, and lovely little 3 year old and the 18 month old that she seems to love dearly. I guess it is her decision, and I will just have to deal with that.

Thank you all for your time. I am sorry to have disturbed you.

[Crystal]

Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

[FrustratedMommy]

Thank you so much for your reply Crystal. It is so nice to know not everybody thinks I am a b**ch.

I think I will start looking again, but it is a bit of a difficult situation here in Aylmer. I have had my three year old on the wait list for every big daycare in the area, since conception. I got called back for one, we went and did the interview, they accepted us, we gave them a void check, signed the contract, and they told us a sibling of on the kids in the daycare took the spot.

For several months I had my three year old near my house and my baby in Ottawa, which is in Ontario. I would leave my work in Ottawa, go to Aylmer, pick up my three year old, drive 45 minutes to Ottawa again, then drive an hour back to my house. I was leaving for work at 6am and arriving home with the kids at 6pm and then I had to cook supper. I got to spend no time with them. I could not pick up from the Ottawa daycare first, because it would have taken me 45 min to get there from work, and then an hour to get my three year old and I would have been late picking her up. I am sure all the providers on this board can tell you how they feel about parents that are late. The Ottawa daycare was just much more accomodating, she knew my situation and made an exception for me to help me out. Plus my baby was the only one at her daycare at the time, and she wasn't dropped off until after 9am.

I have been waking my daughter during the night and at 6:00am when I leave for work since we have taken away her diapers at night and that did help for a while. My husband gets up with her at 7:00am and refuses to get up any earlier. I think now she has just adjusted to me waking her up and is better at going back to sleep. We have been keeping her an extra half an hour, but I'm not sure that helps since I am noticing when I pick her up she is more tired and cranky, and I think it might make it more difficult for the daycare lady since she is less reasonable. Both the daycare lady and I agree that she does need a nap. She is tired and cranky when she doesn't have one.

The daycare lady often takes them to the park in the morning, and it is a 10 block walk for my daughter. We do notice that she sleeps more often when they go to the park, and I pointed this out to her as the problem started one week where it rained every day; however, the daycare lady pointed out that she slept all winter and they were inside most of the time.

Thank you so much for your support Crystal. It really helps.

[jen]

Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

Crystal, some of your suggestions are really quite helpful, but I would like to point out that we have not heard the providers side and as such shouldn't be making any kind of judgement about "what kind" of provider this is.

Personally, I have a difficult time believing the the OP is truly waking her child up in the middle of the night...at least I hope she isn't.

[Crystal]

Thanks Jen, but I don't think I need the providers side, this parent sounds pretty truthful....she seems to have done many things to make it work for all involved, but the provider just isn't responsive to that.

In regards to waking her child up at night, she's potty training her for bedtime, I see nothing wrong with waking up to go potty.

[nannyde]

Frustrated Mommy, I totally understand how frustrated you are. It sounds like you have made every effort to make this work for both your provider and your child. It does sound to me like the provider is the one with the issue here and honestly, if you feel your provider does not like your 3 year old, I would start looking for other care. Find a provider that meets the needs of both of your children and put your family on that providers waitlist. When she has space, you can terminate your current contract.

There ARE providers out here that will work with your child to make sure that her needs are being met in a way that is respectful and works for all: the child, the family and provider....as you have read here, it will be difficult, because many providers DO have the ATTITUDE that because it is their business they can call the shots and do as they please, all the while disregarding the needs of their clients....sure we all need a brek every day, but we do not NEED a 3 hour break, which is generally how long nap lasts. Why anyone thinks that is a perogative, despite the fact that many children do not need that much (if any) sleep at naptime, is beyond me.

Some suggestions: Can you wake your daughter alittle earlier each morning, so perhaps she will be a little more sleepy at naptime? Is the provider offering stimulating activity, including outdoor active playtime, so that your child will burn energy and be ready to nap at naptime? If not, INSIST that she does....your child needs it, not only for being able to rest, but because it is healthy for her.

Good luck, sounds like you have one of those providers who thinks that because it's her business, your opinion about your own child's needs is irrelevent......

Crystal,
Parents can have opinions but they can't have opinions that fundamentally change the structure of your business. It would be like going into McDonalds and demanding organic chicken nuggets. Even though you believe it's better for your kid doesn't mean McDonalds has to accomodate that.

Having a child up at nap is HUGE in this industry. My State even goes as far as to completely protect Centers here by making it a LAW that all children under FIVE be given a two hour nap/rest period. They even state in the actual code that the reason for this is, in part, "to give Staff a much needed break". Seriously. Wanna know why they put that in there? They put it in because they had to field SO many complaints from parents turning their Center into the State because they FORCED the kids to take a nap. The Centers have power ($$$) and FOUGHT the State. The State learned very quickly that they couldn't force Centers to keep kids up at nap just because the parent wanted it. It was easier for the State to agree with the Centers and be able to refuse to take a child abuse complaint on a Center for "making" the kids nap. They were spending way too much staff time dealing with this ONE issue that they made the decision to side with the Centers.

Now the Centers tell the parents to bug off. No nappy ... no care.

The parents solutions to this... by reading the OP are to let her be up. It's very black and white. Anything that she wants to be done with the child means her actually being UP. It's not about the three year old being quietly active during nap it's about her laying in one spot, being quiet, and not getting up until she is told she can. THAT'S nap time. ANYTHING that alters that isn't going to work with most providers.

There should not be a problem with this. It's very simple. Ask your provider if she provides services to children who do not need a full afternoon nap. If she says she does not then go somewhere else. If you can't find a business to offer the services you want then you either stop needing that service or accept the service that doesn't offer it. Providers shouldn't be in the middle of the kid and the parents wants. She offers what she offers... take it or leave it. It's not personal. It's just like every other business.

[FrustratedMommy]

We put her to bed at 8:30. I wake her at 10 when I go to bed to pee, my husband wakes her at 12:00 when he goes to bed to pee. I wake her 6am to pee. The first week that we did this, she actually slept at daycare. Then Monday, she didn't sleep. Yesterday she slept again. Monday and Tuesday were her first dry nights. Before that it was a week of changing the bed ever morning.

My daycare lady is a very kind and loving woman and we get along great. She did tell us when we interviewed that she doesn't usually take toddlers; however, she agreed to take my three year old so that she could be with my 18 month old.

She just has a tendency to complain about my three year old and compare her to the baby. She will say to my three year old, the 18 month old, eats sleep, plays by herself, and never causes trouble. Then she will admit that the three year old actually never hits, doesn't usually cause trouble, she just doesn't want to sleep or eat.

I think she has just made her mind up that she doesn't want toddlers and so reacts negatively to my daughter. I think if she would just give her a chance, and we could fix this nap issue, then everything would be ok. I actually love the woman, and the baby loves her, which is a reason I want to stay. If I didn't like her, I would have made an effort to find something else.