How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[Unregistered]

I am very surprised to hear daycare providers speak this way in a public forum.

I am the parent of a 3 1/2 yr old who does not need a nap. On weekends, she is quite happy and content, goes to bed at 8-8:30pm tops, getting up at the same time as we would on weekdays when we go to daycare, 7:30am ish.

Yet on weeknights, I cannot get her to sleep. This is not a question of discipline, as I have no issue on the weekends when she does not take a nap. The only difference is the daycare nap of approx 2 hours. She usually falls asleep around 10:30 - 11pm. Almost exactly 2 hours later...see the link!

I find your comments on parents to be generalizations that are not helpful to parents and children. Some children may need a nap while others do not...you shoudl be able to adapt your practices to these facts.

Would YOU work a 10.5 hour day with NO breaks? What if you could have a break, but your coworker threw a fit if you took one, because it was inconvenient to him? No, kids should not be forced to sleep, but a rest time. Yes.

[Unregistered]

At Frustrated Mommy: First mistake was putting your toddler with someone who didn't take them. You should have said-that is fine I will keep looking or leave your child where she was and put the baby were she would be taken. Your provider also should have been more strong and just said no. Is your daughter the only non-infant there? If so she probably isn't being given enough stimulation-activities,crafts, pre-school things, outdoor time. She should be with children her own age. Also if she is going to sleep when you get her home and then going to bed a little bit later she probably isn't sleeping very well because she isn't tired. My biggest advice is to have her around children her own age and just plain tire her out! You already went through this with your youngest-someone who wouldn't take toddlers-why do it with your oldest? Is your husband on board with any of this. Is there anyway he could take her to childcare? I know if I don't get a break during the day my family pays for it later because I'm so mentally and physically exhausted by 6 at night that I don't want to do anything-dinner, laundry, clean-up. I just want to go to bed.

[Unregistered]

Why are you assuming a provider would force a child to nap? I don't provide care to children who don't need a full afternoon nap. I'm not FORCING anyone. As soon as they have outgrown nap time they leave.
The "individuals" and "exceptions" don't attend my day care.

I "recognize" that there are children of ALL ages.. from birth to age five that don't need sleep. I hear that all the time from the parents. I BELIEVE them and I BELIEVE you when you say it. I agree. I just don't provide day care to those kids. See?

I won't accept a ten minute break here and there. I want a full two and a half hour break every day in my twelve hour day. I "need" that. I'm an "individual" and an "exception" that I have to have a break. Why is it that you can understand that a child may need "individual" and "exception" but you don't believe the adult may need the same consideration?

I say "let the providers be individuals".

I'm surprised this works. I wouldn't take my child anywhere that I knew she had to leave once she quit napping. Kids quit napping at all different ages. I also would never tell a DCF that they were done because DCK didn't sleep. Really?

[Unregistered]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

[Meyou]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

I'm pretty sure every parent I've ever provided childcare for has provided me with some version of this story when their kids start the "bedtime games" stage. I wake my DCK's up if they are still sleeping at the end of naptime but I'm a firm believer that MOST children do not get enough sleep on a daily basis so I will NEVER give up afternoon naps here for children under 5. In fact my own 7 year old and my 5 year old niece regularly lay down for quiet time and fall asleep on days off school and still go to bed. It's not the nap...its the routine and consistency at bedtime at home in 99% of cases.

[Kaddidle Care]

I had to stop naps with my 3 year old in order for him to go to bed at 8:00. If he took a 2 hour nap he'd be up until 10:00. Perhaps it was selfish of me but I was a SAHM and I was the one that needed that after 8:00 quiet time. I was pretty fried by then.

It doesn't make sense with the original poster that they wanted the child to stay up during nap time and then they kept her up late at night. A child needs a good 10-12 hours of sleep a day and with that child crashing and burning first, it was obvious that she needed that nap. I'm surprised she wasn't falling asleep in her dinner! Poor thing.

[nannyde]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

For "me".. I know I can't work twelve hours straight and I can't keep a business running year after year... decade after decade if I limit my hours to an eight hour day where I could work straight. I also can't find clients who can afford the extra fee for supervision when kids are up and playing during nap so I can have the eleven/twelve hour day. My fee structure IS based on an afternoon break period. If I give that up then I HAVE to charge a lot more money.

I completely understand that there are many children from newborn on who don't need naps and have parents who don't want them to nap. There's no age group where the requests for no nap reside. I've had EVERY age group from six months up to five.

I became clear in that I won't argue or comprimise whether a kid needs a nap or not. If they don't need one they can't be HERE during nap. Nap is for ME. I need a break every day... a long quiet break every day. Minus illness or adjustments of newborns into care... I get it EVERY day.

That's what "I" need. It's not about the kid or about his parents. It's about ME and what "I" need to continue to offer this service year after year. It's about what it takes to keep ME healthy. I haven't missed a single day of work in 17 years... not one. Haven't called in once for being sick. I am happy in my job and I love love love my kidlets.

I KNOW what it takes to keep ME happy so I choose to only work with families who have children that need a FULL afteroon nap.

[jen]

I have a three year old who struggles to go to sleep after a nap at daycare. Please note that she arises at 7:00 a.m., an goes to sleep at 8:00 p.m., without a nap. The process to get her to sleep is the same that I have implemented since she was eighteen months; pajamas, quite time, brush our teeth, say our prayers and then lay quitely (no TV, outside noise, talking, etc.) However, when she does take a nap at daycare and wakes up at 2:00, she is cranky during the evening and does not go to sleep until 11:30 p.m. During the weekends I have a rule that she does have to lay down for quite time. I work a full time job, as well as my husband, with a small baby. When I am working my full time job, I do not get a 2-3 hour break of silence. Please read on Kids Health (or talk to a pediatrician) on how much sleep a toddler/preschooler needs before letting a child sleep until 4. A child needs structure and if he/she is falling alseep at your home/center until 4 there is definitely a problem with structure. Try putting the shoes on the other foot (because I have done both) and see which is easier; working a full time job with a child who doesn't go to sleep because the provider lets them sleep all day because it is easier, or being a provider who lets kids sleep 2-3 hours while they have a chance to catch up on laundry, dishes, planning, etc. When my child stays up until 11:30 p.m., me and my husband still have to play catch up on everyday duties and responsibilities. Really?

Find a provider who offers those services. Really.

I don't ever get it when parent's post this kind of thing. It isn't brain surgery...if your provider doesn't offer the services you require, find another one who does! It's really nothing to be angry or snippy about. It's like getting angry at your Dr.'s office because the don't offer botox...there is nothing wrong with you, nothing wrong with the doctor, you are just looking for services that your Dr. doesn't provide so you need to go see a different doctor.

You wouldn't decide that you wanted your child to learn Chinese and then insist that your daycare provider change her program to accommodate that, would you? So why in the world should she change her program to suit your non-napping child?

[Unregistered]

Really?!

ALL of the children i keep have naptime. ALL of them. Its in the contract and that is my "break" time(if you want to call it that). I too tell the parents that we have a 2 hour quiet time regardless of if your child sleeps or not. Period! Now if these parents were to take them to a larger center they would have to have quiet time also. I had a parent one time tell me that she doesn't use sippy cups at home (her kids were 1 and 4 at the time) and that the only time they are allowed to drink is when they are sitting at the table. I told her that they will be using sippy cups while at my house cause i don't want it on the carpet or furniture. Her rebuttlle......well if there sitting at the table they won't get it every where. Ok that just ticked me off........My response was i don't make the children sit at the table everytime they need a drink and that all the kids in my care WILL be using sippy cups including yours. That parent brings a regular cup every morning an that cup gets dumped out into a sippy cup! So i guess what my point is that if the child is sleeping at your house then let her sleep cause she is not getting the proper sleep at home. And i would just stand your ground on this. Just a word of advice.........Don't ever ever portray yourself as a push over cause they WILL push you over and over and over. Stand your ground, your house, your rules!!

This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!

[nannyde]

YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!

YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.

[Cat Herder]

This is what makes in home daycares look bad. Parents are parents and their ideas should be used, at least within reason. People like you make it hard to trust! You just said you do whatever you think is best, no matter what the parents want. YOUR KID, YOUR RULES!!!

I will be a respectful as possible.

I believe you missed the part where the provider told the Mother that she would NOT be willing to compromise her policies.

At the point the Mother left her child in the care of the provider, AFTER she was informed, she AGREED to the terms of service.

It really is simple.

We are not being deceptive. Not every provider offers every service. If yours does not offer something you are looking for, find a provider who does.

Trust that she will not change her policies when she tells you, point blank, that she will not.

[Cat Herder]

YES you are correct. So the parent needs to find a provider who provides the services to the "rules" they have for their childs care.

It's not a difficult concept. Find the place that does child care the way you want your child to be cared for. If the daycare doesn't offer a "no nap" service then you find one that does.

We AGREE with you. We just don't want to provide that service.

If you want your kid to have sushi then you don't take them to McDonalds. It aint personal.

::Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....

[nannyde]

::Nan. I did not see your post...I had not refreshed my page since I started eating my dinner....

The whole idea that we force kids to nap....
that we shouldn't have a say about what services we offer....
that we are to just DO as we are told..

GETS OLD

[kimsdaycare]

I've been a provider for over 12 years and have only had one child whose parent requested no naps so their 4 yo child would sleep at night. Which I accomodated. Then the child bragged before and after nap about how *she* got to do fun things while the rest had to nap. I then had 5 children all resisting, and I worked my tail off trying to please them all during quiet time. By the end of my 11 hour day my bladder was bursting, tummy growling, the dog was "cleaning" up the messes for me and I was so exhausted that I had no "me" left for my own family. I endured this for months. Hardly the non-accomodating provider portrayed here. You know what I finally found out? This child obviously couldn't keep secrets (hence all the other children knowing about her special treatment) and she started sharing how her evenings were each night. I finally asked mom and dad if these things were true and they were

1.) She skipped nap here, but fell asleep daily in the car ride home or as soon as they got home and slept til dinner. Stayed up until nearly midnight in mom and dads bedroom watching things like South Park. Yes. South Park. Because it was her favorite show and she "knew better" than to imitate it.

2.) They would drive her to the store or fast-food restaurant late at night when she wouldn't sleep to quell the tantrums that she wasn't tired, with the promise that after the treat she would willingly try to sleep. Yup. Special treats for the poor thing, she wanted to please them oh so much but just couldn't.

3.) They didn't request no naps on their own. She had told them to make me stop them. She was making the rules for herself through mom and dad.

4.) I had also been asked to stop serving her foods she didn't like. Because the Doctor had "suggested" cutting out certain foods to "help her sleep". Asked for a drs note and then was told they were experimenting with this on their own, and had built off of a small suggestion the dr had made. This child later bragged to the other children that she got mommy to make me give her what she wanted to eat. The child thought it was great fun to point out that she was in control, not me.

I finally told the parents that if this child didn't stop sharing these things with the other children her special fun time would stop. They were all trying to get on board with this "I don't have to do what you ask, my mommy will tell you so". I just started to spin everything into a way that made them sound more like extra rules for her instead of accomodations. "Oh, too bad you arent allowed to take naps, we love our naptime" "Sorry you arent allowed to have carrots, they are cut into really cool little shapes today!" You know what, she started begging for these "priveledges" back. Mom backed her right up. I could eat lunch again! Yay!

It was a control thing. The OP is not the exact situation, but I wanted to give a side that would let you know *why* we are hesitant to change our routine for one. It took me almost a year to fix the disruption this caused, and to find out it was for a child's whim or that a parent that hid the fact that they allowed naps (it's not really a nap if it's the car ya know) from me that whole time has made me a bit anxious to encounter it again. I am not inflexible, just a victim of one bad experience. We are programmed to learn from negative experiences, it is total instinct. I have to slow down and remind myself, not all parents are like this. Just like not all home providers are the same either.

BTW - I still have this child. Surprising, I know. But in my eyes, the child was merely doing what she had been allowed to do and she had already been in 5 care situations by the time I got her. She needed to belong somewhere, and I was willing to start over for her sake. We communicated both sides and I still allow her to not sleep if she wishes so long as the other children are none the wiser, and she doesn't need to me to engage her in activities the whole time. I periodically check with the parents about car naps and late nights, and adjust her day if necessary, but we are all good most of the time. Mom no longer asks me to make exceptions for her. What Kim says goes. I now love this child. She knows she is loved as well, so there is no need to be the "special" one. She knows she is special to me.

I would love to have a parent being honest and trying to make it work. Compromise works for me and builds strong relationships with my clients. Yes, I prefer them to all nap. Yes, you prefer them to go to bed earlier. Sometimes we just have to meet in the middle somewhere so we both stay sane . I have never terminated a child for not napping. I didn't term my own, and I love my dc kids nearly as much as them.

I hope you find a place that can work for you. Please don't think that providers that require naps are all evil and selfish. My policies portray me as one of those as well. BUt the reality is that I will bend over backwards in an attempt to find a solution that works as long as the relationship is positive on all other levels. But I'm human and appreciate a lunch break as much as the rest of the employed population.

[Kaddidle Care]

Wow as a parent my fears about how childcare providers assume they know more about your child than you do have been confirmed. I have gone rounds and rounds with three daycares insisting that my 4 1/2 year old no longer needs to nap but I am only his mother what do I know. Now before you all say I just don't know how to put my child to bed you should all know on the weekends when he hasn't taken a nap I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM PUTTING MY CHILD TO BED, he is in bed by 8 no problem. His current center has a nap time from 1-3 or when the wake up. 2 hours is way too long and 3 is way too late to be waking up. I honestly would have no problem with a 30 min nap at say noon but anything more than that is excessive. Just because a child will go to sleep doesn't mean they need the sleep. If you put me on a cot and turned off the lights in the middle of the day at my work I would nod off too, and you know what I would be kept up when it was time for me to go to sleep. For those of you that won't wake up a child, shame on you I too have arrived at 4pm to find my child just woken up because he fell asleep at the end of naptime, gosh he must have finally nodded off out of the bordom of expecting a 4 yr old to sit quietly in the dark for 2 hours and "read". I guess those of you that require by contract that you get a 2 hour break in the middle of the day better stick to running your own daycare because no other jobs out there get to take 2 hours off in the middle of theday. Also if you would like to know as a parent what annoys us about daycare workers is that somehow you act like we work for you and we are to do as you say, well I hate to tell you YOU WORK FOR ME FOLLOW THE RULES I HAVE SET FORTH FOR MY CHILD OR I WILL FIRE YOU

Ahahahahahaha! I'm sorry, this post is hilarious!::

If you don't like the RULES, then take your child elsewhere. Better yet, stay HOME with your child and see what it's like in the real world. Did you know that in the real world there are also rules that have to be followed? They're called LAWS. You feel that the rules don't apply to you. I wonder how many laws don't apply to you. This is what you are teaching your child now at 4 1/2. Just wait until he reaches his teen years - you're in for a bumpy ride.

The child that refuses to rest will 9 times out of 10 will wake those that do need a rest with their shinanigans. Sorry about geeking but "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

But.. like I said, if you don't like it and feel your child isn't being treated right, by all means, find a place that is a better fit or take care of him yourself.