How Long Should 4 Year Old Nap

[Unregistered]

Glad to see a smart parent here!

I have a 4 year old who has to lay on a mat for 1 and a half hours at her preschool/day care center. She can't get her little body to rest/sleep. The teachers reward the resting sleeping children with stickers. So every day my daughter comes home crying thinking she did something wrong because she gets no reward. Every child is different. To force a 4 year old to lay on a mat for that long doing nothing is bizarre to me. Could someone please post the Maryland state regulation that says child care workers must force a child to lay on a mat for 2 hours.

I think I read that regulation at one point and it states that a child care center must offer a nap area and a rest period but it is up to the child if he/she wants to nap or rest. I understand the need for quiet time but please this is crazy the way you think you can force children to sleep or sit still on a mat when their bodies are not able to do so.
Stop and really think about the power struggle you are creating. The feeling of shame you are creating in these children when you are telling them to do this and if they don't something is wrong with them.
You are interrupting the regulation all wrong. This regulation was to support and understand the needs of the child not to give the care giver a break.

Read and reread the regulation with each individual child in mind. Then please, please listen to the parents who knows more about their own child then the person in government that wrote a regulation that is being misused.

I completely agree with you and am glad you posted. I've worked at day care centers for a few years now, with all ages. I don't understand why some teachers think the quiet time is suddenly their "break time." Four year old children (and younger) DO need rest, yes, but every child is different. To force a child to lay still for that long if they CLEARLY do not need rest is just ridiculous to me. There are plenty of quiet activities for children to do; read, color, even bring in a small game with headphones if they are that active. Believe me, I know that it's hard to have some kids trying to rest who REALLY, REALLY need sleep while Little Johnny is screaming his head off. But this mother is completely right. There are some children who are just simply non-nappers, active children, and the idea that they go home each day crying/without a sticker like their friends makes me so sad/angry for them. She is exactly right in saying that it creates a feeling of shame in them. They do not understand the adult reason for needing to have them all laying down. And this parent is correct in saying that long, excessive naps DO disrupt sleeping patterns at home. For one poster here who said that it's all a matter of the routine at home being "wrong," that's just insulting. You have no idea what the routine is of these parents who probably do have a good night time routine, lights off at a certain time no exceptions, and still struggle with their children not sleeping because of a long nap at school being forced. The government regulation is definitely being misused by some teachers and it's sad that parents have no say in their own children's daily routine.

[Unregistered]

Thank you for this post. I also have a 4 year old at daycare. She is having the same issues. I am appalled as well. We live in MA and they are required to give students rest time, but one teacher forces my daughter to take a nap. I have tried to provide the school with a doctors note, and dolls for my daughter to sit and play with quietly. The center director agreed, stating my daughter would be woken after 1/2 hour if she falls asleep. I agree, it is hard enough leaving your children and now after reading all the comments of daycare providers it makes it even harder

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

[Country Kids]

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

You are correct-some children are more active than others. I have some in my care that are active BUT my STATE still requires me to provide a rest time for the children and will ask what time do the children rest. This is a state rule/law that we have to follow.

I have children come very early in my day-6:30 and if I don't lay them down till 1:00 they have been up 6.5 hours not 4 and are tired-you must take your child to childcare late in the morning and that would make sense of why she isn't tired. The majority of my children are here 9.5-11 hours a day-they definitely need rest.

Parents have asked me not to lay children down for rest time but then when I show them the rule nothing more is said. One parent was surprised when child left here for another childcare and guess what they had to have resttime there also. It is funny because the ones that the parents don't want to fall asleep alsways seem to do the majority of the time. You can't make a child sleep it comes naturally if the child is tired.

Just recently one of mine didn't fall asleep but did rest. Guess what-within minutes after rest time this child was crying because she was tired (she told me this) and ended up in time out because she started being not nice to the other ones here. At pick-up time her mom wasn't happy with her because she knows how this child can be without a nap but didn't blame me for her not sleeping. She just let the child know that she would be sleeping alot earlier at home tonight-that threw the eveing routine for them at home all out of wack.

True, alot of people do not get to stay home and work. My children are pretty much all grown but I keep doing this because it is my career and one I have built up and very proud of. My suggestion to you is maybe look for another provider that fits your childs energy level better or start your own childcare. That is seriously how I started my childcare-I wasn't happy with care my child was receiving and was able to make more doing this than the job I was at. Then you are the rule maker for your child.

The last thing I would suggest is contact your state and ask for a childcare providers handbook that lists all the rules and regulations for your state. I bet you would be amazed and the things we have to follow and do in order to "stay home with our children".

[Unregistered]

Wow

Some people really should not work with children or families. Nap time is not Breaktime- for providers to play on the computer! Some children are more active than others-my daughter is up all night on school nights, but when she is kept home, or is home on weekends has a beautiful sleep routine. It is clear to me what the problem is-She is awake for-what 4 hours of her day-why would she want to sleep at night. Not all parents have the liberty of staying home and caring for their own children-most of us put our children there because we have to! Get another job-if you can't put children's health before your break time!

Furious in MA!

This post is so offensive that it's hard to decide what to address first.

Naptime for my daycare kids IS breaktime for me and I can use my computer as I see fit. When it's naptime/rest time for my daycare kids, then that means that whatever the kids are doing, it needs to be done quietly if the child isn't sleeping. That means that I won't be engaging the kids who aren't sleeping in any way other than making sure that whatever they are doing, they are doing it quietly. It's not fair to have a lot of noise that prevents the kids who want to sleep from getting rest.

For all of the parents who have kids who fight bedtime, first off, I understand how frustrating it is because my daughter was the worst when it came to bedtime. It wasn't the daycare's fault. She never slept at daycare (but she did rest quietly or just did quiet rest time activities and wasn't disruptive) and still she fought bedtime. It's not always a clear case of "it's all daycare's fault that my kid won't go to bed". Sometimes kids just fight bedtime. Furthermore, if a kid is active, then what would you suggest that the provider do during naptime with the child? You are thinking about this from a parent's point of view and that's fine for you. You know what you want for your child and that's super. Guess what? Unlike you, I have to keep everyone's best interest in mind as a provider.

When I have the kids in my care napping/resting, I am absolutely putting their health first. Kids need time during the day to unwind. They may not want to sleep and that's OK, but they do need some down time during the day. I never force kids to go to sleep, but they always fall asleep when it's naptime. Sleep is too important for health and growth to be used as a means to make sure that your kid goes to sleep on your schedule. Sure, if you knew what she did every day that she was at daycare and you knew for a fact that it was the same thing that you do with her on the weekends and any other day that she might be home with you, then maybe you could say that she doesn't need a nap but daycare schedules are usually a whole lot different. If your child is falling asleep at naptime at daycare, it's most likely because she needs the sleep then.

Providers aren't trying to make life hard for the parents by having a nap time. Providers aren't trying to be lazy, either.

Wow. Just wow.

[Unregistered]

Response

Laundry Duchess:

I disagree completely that you discipline a child a whole day after the incident. You find a disciplinary routine that works i.e. time out that is age appropriate and discipline him/her in the moment. Then you forget about it as they would as well! Especially off to the next day. That would only confuse the child and make them think they did nothing wrong, as maybe the next day they hadn't. The more consistent you are the more consistent the child's behavior will become. Period. Even if the parents don't discipline at their home, children are smart enought to pick up on differnt house, center, whatever...different rules.

have you just simply told him, when you yell at nap you will get no craft time. Period. Hes 4, not a baby. He seems smart. Be straight with him. when he arrives say Little Billy, if you scream at my home you will have to lose an activity. If your quiet, you get the activity.

Make it story time or playdough time or whatever,... something that happens BEFORE nap remind him the first day during the activity that if he screams he will not do the activity the next day. If he does scream,.... the next day say,.. Billy, you dont get to play (the activity) today because of your behavior yesterday. Im sorry but you chose to throw a fit, you need to go sit while we do the activity. Then when you lay them down say ,.. Billy,.. if you scream today you will not do the activity tomorrow. It will be fresh in his mind that he missed out because of his behavior. I bet it will take one day,.. possibly two to fix this issue. If it doesnt work the first day pick something really fun to exclude him from. And if anyone wants to flame me go ahead. Thats how it works here,.. You behave and get fun things,.. You misbehave and you dont. Amazingly,.. the kids behave,.. listen and after a time or two missing a fun thing,.. they magically "get it". My opinion,.. you dont give a tantrum a reward. and any attention is attention even if its to say,.. hush, be quiet,.. stop yelling,.. Bad behavior is ignored,..Ignored behavior is not being re-enforced. the bad behavior that gets no attention is no longer getting them attention so its not worth the effort. They see that good behavior is rewarded with fun things,... the world keeps spinning and everyone is friends.

[Unregistered]

never discipline a child for not sleeping

or ignore them in hopes they will sleep.

Break time is when you have an assistant come in and cover for you.

If you can't do this, and you need families whose children need naps, search for that in interviews, make a no drop offs after x o'clock rule. I am not aware of any state with a requirement for sleep, or that allows non sleepers to be kept down for more than 30 minutes, if that. Get a quiet corner, play nap time DVDs (aligned with your learning units).

You can create a quiet, engaging time for this child, and others who will come. Its up to you to decide if you are willing to.

If you are a parent with a nap time issue, and your provider is forcing your non-sleeping child to stay on a mat or cot longer than 30 minutes, call your state agency.

[Unregistered]

If a 4 year old doesn't sleep here, that's okay with me. At this point they are two months away from kindergarten. If they are enrolled in afternoon classes then they need to adjust to no naps anyway.

They lay down on their mats the same time everyone else does. Like someone else mentioned if they aren't asleep after about 30 mins, I give them books to look at/read. If after an hour they are still wide awake, they can get up and do quiet activities in whatever room I'm in. We'll talk quietly while I do what I need to.. it's a chance to spend some time with them on their level without the younger ones' needs in there. It's also understood that for the last however long before "wake up" time I will have a cup of coffee and read, and that is "my" time.

I don't believe every four year old needs a nap anymore. Quiet time yes, but not necessarily sleep. If they have a good solid sleep at night, some can go without the nap in the afternoon. With kindergarten only a couple of months away it's a good time to start getting them used to a full day without a nap.

[Unregistered]

Naptime

I put my 3.5yr old religiously to bed at 7pm every night. Before bedtime, there's no stimulation, no tv, no juices, no sugar, etc. The room is dark, she has a sound machine, no toys in the crib, and can't hear us downstairs. By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for. I remind her not to talk but she forgets. She'll play pretend, count her fingers, etc. in the dark. Fridays are worse as those are the days the daycare provider takes it "easy" and the kids all "sleep" a little extra so she can plan her weekend. I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep. I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime. She intentionally misses my point that my daughter is put in bed at 7pm every single night. It hurts to hear my daughter bored for 2.5hrs a night upstairs and to think of her locked up in some room so this lady can take a break. I'll be putting her in preschool as soon as I can afford it. When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.

[Unregistered]

Reply times

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

[mac60]

The post here are getting more and more amusing. Putting your child to bed at 7:00pm. Hmm, guess you don't want to spend time with your child, yet you are condenscending to a provider to putting a child down for a nap during the 8 to 10 hours they have them during the day. You can't possible spend more than 2 to 3 hours with your own child if you put them to bed at 7:00pm. Then to be "shocked" at how many providers are up at 1am. And you know this how????? The time posted on "my" post is wrong, and I specifically set it up that way. And really, what business is it of anyone's what time any of us go to bed, many people function quite well on 5/6 hours sleep. Don't judge people you know nothing about. And in our state, you don't go to kindergarten till you are 5, and even the dc centers have naptime for soon to start kindergarteners, they stop giving naps 1 week before they start.

[nannyde]

I put my 3.5yr old religiously to bed at 7pm every night. Before bedtime, there's no stimulation, no tv, no juices, no sugar, etc. The room is dark, she has a sound machine, no toys in the crib, and can't hear us downstairs. By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for. I remind her not to talk but she forgets. She'll play pretend, count her fingers, etc. in the dark. Fridays are worse as those are the days the daycare provider takes it "easy" and the kids all "sleep" a little extra so she can plan her weekend. I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep. I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime. She intentionally misses my point that my daughter is put in bed at 7pm every single night. It hurts to hear my daughter bored for 2.5hrs a night upstairs and to think of her locked up in some room so this lady can take a break. I'll be putting her in preschool as soon as I can afford it. When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.

Seven p.m. is a REALLY early bedtime for a child this age. All my kids go to bed around eight thirty/nine p.m.. They have a full evening with their parents.

Your little one wants her Mommy. She wants to be up and have FAMILY time in the evenings with you. If she went to bed at nine p.m. after having the seven to nine p.m. time as a FAMILY time with you then she would most likely conk out at sleep.

Kids need at least five hours of AWAKE time EVERY day with their parents. Not including transportation time to the day care.

[nannyde]

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

You might be seeing time differences on the threads. I don't know how that works. Unless I was off the next day I wouldn't be up that late. And yes I have a cousin who thinks that if I'm able to answer emails instantly that I couldn't possibly be doing anything but standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

We all have them there cousins... the ones always trying to find fault... the ones always trying to tell you how to do your business.... and none of them actually DO child care.

[Kaddidle Care]

By the end of a long weekend, she's on a great schedule falling asleep at 7:15 with no problem and waking at 7:30am the next morning. But when she goes back to daycare, within 2 days, although she goes to bed at 7pm, she's up talking until 9:30pm. We got to bed at 9pm on most nights so I can only wonder how long she goes talking for.

I can't believe you are going to sleep BEFORE you know your own child is asleep! That could be dangerous unless you are an extremely light sleeper.

I discovered she puts my kid down at 12:30pm and gets her up at 3:30pm. After an almost quarter night's sleep and being put in bed 3.5hrs later, she just can't fall asleep.

If she is crashing and burning at 12:30 and sleeping until 3:30, she NEEDS it.

I spoke with the provider who stated that since I have to wake her at 6:30am on weekdays (I work full-time), that's the reason she gives her extra naptime.

In other words, she is little miss cranky pants from 6:30-12:30 because she hasn't gotten enough sleep. You are telling us she is asleep from 7:15-7:30 but I'm detecting a Pinocchioism here.

When she went to a licensed public daycare, she was not having any sleep issues & had more stimulation to exercise her body and mind.

Since you are so unhappy with your provider, I think it may be time to move on. You will find that a licensed public daycare requires children to nap during the day as well. You probably had your daughter there when she was quite a bit younger and needed more sleep. I doubt she took a shorter nap. 2 hours is pretty standard. 2 hours is when they START to lay down to nap but they don't all fall asleep immediately. Good luck!

I am shocked at how many daycare owners are up past 1am on weekdays on this thread. People are usually worn out when they spend day in and out with kids. Makes me wonder what your "secrets" are to being able to stay up so late & face a bunch of kids the following morning before parents have to be at work. My cousin runs her own in-home daycare. If you e-mail her at anytime of the day, she'll respond within minutes. Makes me wonder what people are paying her for other than to standby like a correctional officer with a bunch of inmates.

So you think your cousin is the norm? Do YOU have children? Because if you do, I see that you are up and on the computer at 12:31 AM.
It's quite possible that some of these child care providers have skewed sleep schedules due to the after dinner crash and burn which may have resulted in a nap during their family time. When I had a young baby, I used to work from home on the computer from 8:00-12:00. It wasn't unusual for me to be posting on a "fun" forum at 1:00 AM.
Keep in mind that not all members here are full time daycare providers.

[Meyou]

Also regarding emails...in this day and age it's very easy to have email access on a phone. I get a text when I have a new email for example. I can check it in the yard with the kids and quickly reply. I usually say something like..."in the yard, will write back with details at naptime when I'm inside." if it's anything lengthy or requires my brain to reply.

I also post facebook pics from my phone outside and update my facebook status. My parents like seeing updates as the day goes on if someone does something funny or amazing!! I sent a mom video of her dd from my backyard at 4pm yesterday when she mastered something she's been attempting for days.

Don't assume that all providers are slacking, eating bon bons and letting the kids run wild.

[Country Kids]

Seven p.m. is a REALLY early bedtime for a child this age. All my kids go to bed around eight thirty/nine p.m.. They have a full evening with their parents.

Your little one wants her Mommy. She wants to be up and have FAMILY time in the evenings with you. If she went to bed at nine p.m. after having the seven to nine p.m. time as a FAMILY time with you then she would most likely conk out at sleep.

Kids need at least five hours of AWAKE time EVERY day with their parents. Not including transportation time to the day care.

I have a family that there children are in bed about 7:30 every night (except church night) and they are in elementary school (upper grades). My husband and brothers all had to be in bed at 7:00 while in elementary school. This was even during the summer time. They can all tell you that it was still bright and sunshiny out when they were in bed. It was dinner, showers then bed every night.