Justin Ross Harris Trial

[NeedaVaca]

That would be the automakers excuse.....but think about absolutely everything else they put in our vehicles.

If the brakes fail....who's responsible?
If the car suddenly stops on a freeway...who's responsible?
If your car burst into flames...who's responsible?
If your car suddenly accelerates...who's responsible?

Millions of vehicles have been recalled over the past 2-3 years...who's responsible?

I don't feel like it's the same thing as taking responsibility for parental neglect?

[Blackcat31]

No, not at all.

I'm just saying it would be good to institute an 'absence line.'

Everyone who is part of the team caring for an innocent child should be communicating with each other.

The liability a public school has is VASTLY different than the liability of a private self employed business owner.

Why should I have to take on additional responsibilities because some parents are stressed out or too busy to implement their own methods of making sure their child is never left in a car?

Why is it always someone else's responsibility first before the parent?

Do you know how many responsibilities child care providers take on each and every day...most of whom work alone.

If child care providers took on the responsibility of calling, what do you think the fall out would be if one day they forgot to call and something happened? Who do you think would be to blame? Who do you think will lose everything?

Curious why you aren't talking instead about what parents can do FIRST before asking car manufactures and child care providers etc to take responsibility. What can PARENTS do that will ensure THEIR child is safe?

[Rockgirl]

I don't think anyone said a daycare provider *shouldnt* call. But when they make it a requirement, we will be held liable. That's not something I am ready to take on.

Every time I see a post about one of these tragic deaths online, someone comments that the parents should make a reminder for themselves, like putting the diaper bag in the front seat. Then someone says, "You shouldn't NEED a reminder that your child is with you!" Ok, true enough. But if something so simple can prevent this, why not just do it?

The thought of me being liable for the death of a child who hasn't even reached my house for the day just scares the heck out of me. I pray it doesn't come to that.

[Blackcat31]

No, not at all.

I'm just saying it would be good to institute an 'absence line.'

Everyone who is part of the team caring for an innocent child should be communicating with each other.

I did RE-READ and you said QUOTE "Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle." END QUOTE


How does that translate to we should institute an absence line????

[Second Home]

What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?

Our public schools do not call when a child is absent .

[Cat Herder]

There is quite a big difference between the facts and opinion.

I agree. Do you know the difference? I don't think you do.

Are you prepared to prove your statement. Show me the evidence where they proved, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the police stretched the truth of this case.

I double dog dare you.

You, my friend, are playing both the pot and the kettle today.

[nanglgrl]

What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?

An automated call or even a personal call made from a school with an actual secretary is vastly different from a home daycare. Parents show up late all of the time, forget to tell us about vacations, schedule changes and forget to call in when their child is sick. For some parents it's habitual and you just never know if their child is coming until they show up 2 hours late.
Imagine 8 families all arriving about the same time, Conversations with parents, well child checks at the door and dealing with separation anxiety. Then it's time to serve 8 children breakfast and deal with cooking, washing hands, documenting for the food program, serving, cleaning up. Little Johny hasnt arrived yet. This happens a lot and in the past you've called only to find out they slept in or he's not coming that day so it's not irregular that he hasn't arrived yet. You decide to call but wait, someone just threw their food on the floor, had a blow out diaper...etc. maybe after all of this you forget to call or maybe you remember but by now it's 2 hours after he was supposed to arrive when you finally get a chance to do so. What if you text instead? What if you call and no one answers so you leave a voice mail? Where would the liability end? Would providers have to call until they actually talked to a parent? Providers can't and shouldn't shoulder this responsibility. Could we charge parents for not calling in? Sure but that would be just one more fee we'd have to argue with parents about and still doesn't solve the problem of what if we don't call right away because we're taking care of multiple children of varied ages by ourselves.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I don't know anything about this specific trial but have read plenty of research on why it happens and believe that unfortunately it's a product of the super busy, incredibly stressed, multi-tasking society we live in where parents depend on both incomes. I'm sure there are cases of it being intentional but I've read so many stories of cases where it was most likely unintentional and those grieving parents are in a living hell.

I did forget my child in the car once. I completely forgot about it until just now. I was driving and my 2 yo daughter was in the back seat with a daycare boy who was like part of our family. They were singing, the hubby and I were laughing about how adorable they were from the front seat. Suddenly my daughter started having a seizure. I'd never seen a seizure before. I didn't know what was happening. I drove like a maniac to the closest hospital while screaming at my husband to crawl back and help her and other drivers to let me over. We pull up, hubby grabs her and runs in, I grab daycare boy and run in. He turns to me and says "where's the baby?" I left my newborn in the car! I ran out and got him but if hubby hadn't been with me it could have been tragic. It was winter and he'd even left the van door wide open! I was used to lugging my daughter and daycare boy everywhere, I wasn't used to grabbing the baby and this might have been one of the first times we were all out and about since he was born. I think part of me thought he grabbed the baby since he got my daughter out of that side of the car. I was also panicked and in a situation I've never been in before. This situation is different but the brain functioning is the same.

I've also thought I forgot a child before. Since my children usually go everywhere with me I can't tell you the amount of times I've pulled out of a store, seen the empty car seat in the rear view mirror and had a panic attack before I remembered they weren't with me or pulled up at home, went to get them out of the car seat only to realize they didn't come with me.

There have been times my hubby takes my daughter to soccer or my son to wrestling and I get ready to leave and run errands and realize he left the other child home (he usually takes them both with him). I've never actually forgotten one of them at home but I've had some close calls when he decided not to take one because they fell asleep and didn't think to tell me that he was changing how he normally does things.

I would have been utterly devastated if something happened to one of my children. If it was something that I did or didn't do that caused the tradegedy I'd probably be suicidal.
Since I can see how it can just be a horrible accident that happens after a "perfect storm" of irregular events that a parent isn't used to I don't think parents should be jailed for this unless it can be proven that it was intentional. I do think some required device in cars or on car seats would be helpful but they'd have to find a way to work around liability issues for the manufacturer of the device. They'd also have to make it mandatory for people with young children since NO ONE thinks it can happen to them because they would never ever forget their child....which is exactly why a majority of these accidents happen.

People need to understand that if you have the ability to forget things like milk, bread, stamps, cellphone, keys, etc.; you DO have the capability of forgetting (or losing awareness) that your child is in the car with you. Our brain doesn't necessarily assign "worth" to what we forget or not.

As far as the number of cases where children are left alone in vehicles....90% unknowingly and 10% knowingly. Very different than most people believe; or should I say the exact opposite of what most posters have expressed in this thread.

I agree with both of you. The brain is powerful and there are parts that are working almost robotically, not emotionally, so whether it's your kid or your keys, it can happen

[Ariana]

Basically this is saying that people started forgetting their kids when they got moved to the back seat.... out of sight. :confused:

That only further validates my thoughts that it is a tragic accident only .00000000001% of the time, the rest of the time, it's just carelessness.

I don't care if they are doctor's, cashiers, lawyers, waitresses, teachers, car salesmen, judges, nurses or members of the Senate.....their profession has nothing to do with their parenting.

If you are a parent you have a responsibility above and beyond your job. If your job is so stressful and time consuming that you forget your child, then you need to rethink priorities in your life.

I'm sorry but I have zero sympathy for this. I just don't.

I am a parent and not once in all my years of parenting did I forget my child. Did I make stupid decisions and do dumb things? Sure! But none of it had anything to do with forgetting.... as a parent, I lived and breathed for my child.

Forgetting them is just outside my realm of understanding.

If what you posted about our habit forming memory functions are true then why aren't kids forgotten anywhere else on a regular basis?

Do parents put their child in their bedrooms at the end of the hallway and forget about them because they are out of sight? How about when they go to the bathroom and the child stays in the living room? Do they leave the house and forget their child is still home? Then why the car? What is it about the car that makes them forget their child?

My thoughts are that if the punishment was harsher for this type of tragedy, then I bet parents would start taking it more seriously and start figuring out ways to help them be responsible for THEIR child.

Relying on car manufacturers, daycare providers or anyone else not bearing a personal responsibility in the child-parent relationship is wrong and sadly it's only one of the shifts we've seen as of late that slowly removes the responsibility of child rearing from the parent and pretty much gives them an out for putting everything or anything above their child and their child's well being.

You don't think that the death of a child is punishment enough? That jail would be worse for them? Some of these parents are suicidal and lose their jobs they are so distraught. Who in their right mind would say "I will leave my kid in this hot care because I am not going to go to jail for it". To me it just doesn't make sense. If a parent is abusive and has a history of mistreating their child then yeah maybe I would believe it to be malicious but to say that a regular parent would pay more attention because of jail time is not something I believe at all.

I bet in all of those scenarios you mentioned a child has been forgotten. I remember my brother and I going skiing during a weekday. We never went skiing on a weekday. Neither parent remembered to pick us up afterward. The only difference is we didn't die so it didn't make front page news. parents forget their kids all the time!

[Ariana]

For the record if a child does not show up to daycare I do call or text to find out where they are. Don't we all do that just to make sure they weren't in an accident or the child isn't sick?

Just curious if most of us do this or not? Not saying we should be liable because I don't think it is our responsibility just curious.

[Play Care]

For the record if a child does not show up to daycare I do call or text to find out where they are. Don't we all do that just to make sure they weren't in an accident or the child isn't sick?

Just curious if most of us do this or not? Not saying we should be liable because I don't think it is our responsibility just curious.

I have infants this year and I do. But not because I have to.

But if the parent doesn't answer or respond to the text, I don't spend half the morning trying to reach someone. I have other kids who are here that need me.

[daycarediva]

What we need to institute is a system similar to the public school 'absence line.'

If a child does not show up at school AND the parents haven't call to let the school know that; they call to find out the whereabouts of that child.

It is the PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY to call if the child is going to be absent. BUT, if their child is not present and they have not received a call from the parent; the school does call.

It seems reasonable for a similar system to be instituted at daycare facilities. One would hope it would be a rare occurrence that a child is not in attendance when they are scheduled to be there.

Additionally; if you are being paid for an entire day of taking care of them and their safety; a phone call seems to be a small 'ask' in exchange for receiving full-pay even when the child is not there.

Yet, hundreds of children would still be alive today if a daycare provider had called to find the whereabouts of a child left alone in a vehicle.

Think about your current policies surrounding what happens if children are NOT picked up at the agreed upon time. All sorts of protocols are in place for that occurrence.
You could even "charge" parents who don't call to let you know about the whereabouts of their child if a family becomes a repeat offender.

Thoughts?

I am shocked by the bolded comment. How about 'Hundreds of children would be alive had parents put a plan into place to remember their child in the back seat."

Especially given the increased awareness and media coverage of these incidents. I post a reminder to parents on my dc page at the beginning of summer.

The liability a public school has is VASTLY different than the liability of a private self employed business owner.

Why should I have to take on additional responsibilities because some parents are stressed out or too busy to implement their own methods of making sure their child is never left in a car?

Why is it always someone else's responsibility first before the parent?

Do you know how many responsibilities child care providers take on each and every day...most of whom work alone.

If child care providers took on the responsibility of calling, what do you think the fall out would be if one day they forgot to call and something happened? Who do you think would be to blame? Who do you think will lose everything?

Curious why you aren't talking instead about what parents can do FIRST before asking car manufactures and child care providers etc to take responsibility. What can PARENTS do that will ensure THEIR child is safe?

Our school calls for state attendance purposes. They ONLY call after lunch. Wouldn't save a person.

I have parents with varied drop offs, so for most of my kids with a 60 minute drop off window (depending on which parent is bringing them in), it would already be too late by the time I would consider them 'absent' for the day and even make that call.

Parents do NOT WANT a 10-15 minute drop off window or a set drop off time.

I am BUSY during that time. I am getting 4 kids fed/on the bus and getting 5 preschoolers (assuming one is absent) ready for breakfast and settled in.

I do NOT want to be liable for a child who isn't even in my care. My liability is already insanely high. Why should I lose my license/career/financial stability because of a parent's negligence?

I love my dcks, but I do NOT want to be responsible for them when they're not here.

PARENTS are responsible when they are with their child.

[NeedaVaca]

You don't think that the death of a child is punishment enough? That jail would be worse for them? Some of these parents are suicidal and lose their jobs they are so distraught. Who in their right mind would say "I will leave my kid in this hot care because I am not going to go to jail for it". To me it just doesn't make sense. If a parent is abusive and has a history of mistreating their child then yeah maybe I would believe it to be malicious but to say that a regular parent would pay more attention because of jail time is not something I believe at all.

I bet in all of those scenarios you mentioned a child has been forgotten. I remember my brother and I going skiing during a weekday. We never went skiing on a weekday. Neither parent remembered to pick us up afterward. The only difference is we didn't die so it didn't make front page news. parents forget their kids all the time!

Yesterday when the detective was on the stand he was asked if Justin Ross Harris had a history of abuse. His reply was -other than the death of his son?

[Blackcat31]

You don't think that the death of a child is punishment enough? That jail would be worse for them? Some of these parents are suicidal and lose their jobs they are so distraught. Who in their right mind would say "I will leave my kid in this hot care because I am not going to go to jail for it". To me it just doesn't make sense. If a parent is abusive and has a history of mistreating their child then yeah maybe I would believe it to be malicious but to say that a regular parent would pay more attention because of jail time is not something I believe at all.

I bet in all of those scenarios you mentioned a child has been forgotten. I remember my brother and I going skiing during a weekday. We never went skiing on a weekday. Neither parent remembered to pick us up afterward. The only difference is we didn't die so it didn't make front page news. parents forget their kids all the time!

I am not at all arguing that it isn't tragic and horrible that this type of thing happens at all.

My point is that it IS PREVENTABLE! In everything we do there is a risk involved. There is always that small percentage where nothing we could have done would have prevented a situation from happening but in MOST (not all but most) cases it is pure overload on the parent's part..... too much on their minds, work issues, having to add extra duties to their daily routines etc.... basically just too much on their mind at that particular time to keep their child in the forefront of their thoughts.

The second a parent walks out the door with that child THEY bear a responsibility to that child. To keep the child safe from any dangers outside their home. It's the parents responsibility to keep their child's well being/needs and their physical presence on their radar until they hand that child off to the next responsible adult.

They need to put their work issues aside, their marital stress, the issues from the day to day grind of life and FOCUS on the child while they are the one in charge. If it has to be conscious effort, then conscious effort needs to be put forth.

If our brains can be programmed to forget things then they can be trained to do the opposite.

How many times have you heard a child care provider say every time they go somewhere, they count kids or they are constantly surveying the room for kids or dangers etc..?

Because we have become programmed to do this. It has become a conscious (and sometimes unconscious) behavior. We taught ourselves to be conscious of the number of kids, exits, dangers present etc...

Do I think parents don't suffer when this type of thing happens? Of course they do.... I'm not even going to argue that point....

But I still feel that when YOU (general you) take on the responsibility of being a parent that human life is YOUR responsibility. period. It's YOUR job to put that child ahead of all else and protect them from harm. Including harm from your forgetfulness or your lack of thought.

Your example of going skiing and being forgotten is not even remotely the same. You were old enough to ski.
Your parents weren't in baby mode. The consequences (for them and for you and your brother) are vastly different in that example. Your parents forgetting didn't put your lives at risk.

For the record if a child does not show up to daycare I do call or text to find out where they are. Don't we all do that just to make sure they weren't in an accident or the child isn't sick?

Just curious if most of us do this or not? Not saying we should be liable because I don't think it is our responsibility just curious.

Nope. I don't call or text.

In certain circumstances I might and more than likely have called but not on a regular basis. I don't parent parents.

If I did, it automatically make me part of the equation and I don't want that liability. I know everyone keeps saying it's not in their policies to call so they wouldn't be responsible but if you call one day (even if you don't have to) you are automatically to blame the one day you don't.

We're already responsible for doing so much that really what's left for the parents to do anymore?

[Ariana]

I am not at all arguing that it isn't tragic and horrible that this type of thing happens at all.

My point is that it IS PREVENTABLE! In everything we do there is a risk involved. There is always that small percentage where nothing we could have done would have prevented a situation from happening but in MOST (not all but most) cases it is pure overload on the parent's part..... too much on their minds, work issues, having to add extra duties to their daily routines etc.... basically just too much on their mind at that particular time to keep their child in the forefront of their thoughts.

The second a parent walks out the door with that child THEY bear a responsibility to that child. To keep the child safe from any dangers outside their home. It's the parents responsibility to keep their child's well being/needs and their physical presence on their radar until they hand that child off to the next responsible adult.

They need to put their work issues aside, their marital stress, the issues from the day to day grind of life and FOCUS on the child while they are the one in charge. If it has to be conscious effort, then conscious effort needs to be put forth.

If our brains can be programmed to forget things then they can be trained to do the opposite.

How many times have you heard a child care provider say every time they go somewhere, they count kids or they are constantly surveying the room for kids or dangers etc..?

Because we have become programmed to do this. It has become a conscious (and sometimes unconscious) behavior. We taught ourselves to be conscious of the number of kids, exits, dangers present etc...

Do I think parents don't suffer when this type of thing happens? Of course they do.... I'm not even going to argue that point....

But I still feel that when YOU (general you) take on the responsibility of being a parent that human life is YOUR responsibility. period. It's YOUR job to put that child ahead of all else and protect them from harm. Including harm from your forgetfulness or your lack of thought.

Your example of going skiing and being forgotten is not even remotely the same. You were old enough to ski.
Your parents weren't in baby mode. The consequences (for them and for you and your brother) are vastly different in that example. Your parents forgetting didn't put your lives at risk.



Nope. I don't call or text.

In certain circumstances I might and more than likely have called but not on a regular basis. I don't parent parents.

If I did, it automatically make me part of the equation and I don't want that liability. I know everyone keeps saying it's not in their policies to call so they wouldn't be responsible but if you call one day (even if you don't have to) you are automatically to blame the one day you don't.

We're already responsible for doing so much that really what's left for the parents to do anymore?

I think we agree on most of this issue. I DO think it is a parents responsibility. I DO think they are to blame for this happening. I guess I also realize that some parents are capable of forgetting given a certain set of circumstances. I also think that a death can be prevented by calculating human error and figuring out a solution to prevent deaths. That is my bottom line.

I don't think car manufacturers will make a sensor because the liability is too high if the sensor fails. Having said that the liability is pretty high if an airbag doesn't deploy during an accident so what is the difference? Car manufacturers are sued every year for wrongful deaths. Just recently Honda CRV was recalled due to a pin coming loose when the airbag was deployed puncturing a man in the chest.

Good discussion at any rate