Justin Ross Harris Trial

[midaycare]

Being responsible for a child when they are not in my care upsets me. I can't control a parents' actions and should not be held accountable.

With that said, I will contact a parent if they are 30 minutes outside of their dropoff time. But...I have some with a 90 minute window, so...a child could be stuck in the car for 2 hours before I reach out.

[Josiegirl]

I try not to judge. But this is a hard one.
I have forgotten cupcakes on the top of my car. I've forgotten my license, or my money at home. I've forgotten a bag of groceries in the shopping cart. But come on....a child??? Have we, as a nation of technology connections, made every other single thing more important than our own child/ren? As a provider, we all know how our minds and brains are usually going 100 m.p.h. but what is THE most important thing in our day?? And what should a mom or dad's most important part of their world be??

[Pestle]

Regarding the responsibility of car manufacturers:

Nothing comes into being from a void. There is human thought, intention, and labor involved in all the stuff we use all day long. Ethical production requires the designers to stop and think hard about whether the current method is actually meeting the needs of all the populations who will interact with their product, or whether they're unintentionally handicapping people with bad design. (As the terms are used in the design industry, a disability is innate to people; a handicap is caused by flawed designs in the environment. A missing leg is a disability, but it only becomes a handicap when architects and city planners fail to accommodate that disability.)

Children are a special population, just like the elderly, the deaf, the blind, and those who have mobility impairment. But unlike all those other special populations, it's 100% guaranteed that everyone who's ever born will spend time as a child. And it's a huge failing on the part of the auto industry to design vehicles as though the only occupants worthy of comfort and safety are adults. That places the burden on other industries to come up with car seats and other accessories that can modify the vehicle to accommodate children. Even with those modifications, the fact is that vehicles, as currently designed, handicap children and their parents.

It's a bad design.

[NeedaVaca]

Maybe the car industry doesn't want to take on this liability either. If the seat/alarm what ever they design should fail they would be held liable for the death of the child.

[nanglgrl]

It would be a wonderful thing if car manufacturers and childcare providers got on board but I doubt it will happen because of liability. I try to call parents if they're late but I make it a point in my contract to say I may not have time to call or Kay forget so it's their responsibility to contact me. I could just see the lawsuit if I didn't: "my daycare provider always called if I didn't get there on time but she didn't this day and this tragic thing happened!" Depending on the jury/judge it might not matter if I was busy with 7 other children or if someone had a blow-out or we were doing an activity..all that would matter is that in my contract it stated that I call if a child is late. Sad but we live in a world where passing the blame is common and people are sue happy.

[Ariana]

Regarding the responsibility of car manufacturers:

Nothing comes into being from a void. There is human thought, intention, and labor involved in all the stuff we use all day long. Ethical production requires the designers to stop and think hard about whether the current method is actually meeting the needs of all the populations who will interact with their product, or whether they're unintentionally handicapping people with bad design. (As the terms are used in the design industry, a disability is innate to people; a handicap is caused by flawed designs in the environment. A missing leg is a disability, but it only becomes a handicap when architects and city planners fail to accommodate that disability.)

Children are a special population, just like the elderly, the deaf, the blind, and those who have mobility impairment. But unlike all those other special populations, it's 100% guaranteed that everyone who's ever born will spend time as a child. And it's a huge failing on the part of the auto industry to design vehicles as though the only occupants worthy of comfort and safety are adults. That places the burden on other industries to come up with car seats and other accessories that can modify the vehicle to accommodate children. Even with those modifications, the fact is that vehicles, as currently designed, handicap children and their parents.

It's a bad design.

So true!

[Unregistered]

Not following and I don't call parents for that. This may sound harsh, but I don't really care what happens to them when they aren't in my care. I have my own children and nieces and nephews to worry about on my off hours. This is just a job. I'm sure my dcms and dcds don't give a flying fig about MY children. Second, I don't want them changing their mind and dropping them off because I called.

[Josiegirl]

Not following and I don't call parents for that. This may sound harsh, but I don't really care what happens to them when they aren't in my care. I have my own children and nieces and nephews to worry about on my off hours. This is just a job. I'm sure my dcms and dcds don't give a flying fig about MY children. Second, I don't want them changing their mind and dropping them off because I called.

Wow you're right. It does come off as harsh. :confused:
I care about these dcks, a lot. And I do send off a text if they don't show up within an hour. BUT I still don't think the responsibility lies with us. It is with their parents. Involved parents just should not forget there's a child with them. Watching news coverage you see crap stuff happen all the time.Drugged parents passed out in the car with their child in the back seat. Anyone see that picture on the internet? Cases of a dad going into a bar leaving their child/ren in the car, middle of winter. Happened in my town of 6000. Foster dad and owner of local business went to HD, left the little children in the truck for 45 minutes. WTF? Those last 2 scenarios happened in my little town. Just imagine across the country... These parents should not be parents.

[Unregistered]

This case isn't about forgetting his son. He had to of known his son was in the car. He was a sicko and didn't want his son anymore. His daycare couldn't of known this. I guess had they of called would of blown his cover story. He was sexting a 16 year old while his son was dying. There will be no justice for this little boy ever.

[Ariana]

Wow you're right. It does come off as harsh. :confused:
I care about these dcks, a lot. And I do send off a text if they don't show up within an hour. BUT I still don't think the responsibility lies with us. It is with their parents. Involved parents just should not forget there's a child with them. Watching news coverage you see crap stuff happen all the time.Drugged parents passed out in the car with their child in the back seat. Anyone see that picture on the internet? Cases of a dad going into a bar leaving their child/ren in the car, middle of winter. Happened in my town of 6000. Foster dad and owner of local business went to HD, left the little children in the truck for 45 minutes. WTF? Those last 2 scenarios happened in my little town. Just imagine across the country... These parents should not be parents.

I agree those people should NOT be parents and are a plague to society but children dying in hot cars happens to all sorts of people. Do you remember the school principle that was on Oprah? She was not using drugs or going to bars she was a principle at a school and an upstanding person in her community. This has happened to doctors as well and has been well studied and documented by neuroscientists. It literally can happen to anyone!

"Dr. David Diamond has studied the inner workings of the human mind since 2004—specifically how our brains allow us to commit such a horrific act as forgetting a child in a hot car. Diamond is a neuroscientist and professor with the University of South Florida who coined the term “forgotten baby syndrome,” the mental process that leads to people to forget.

Diamond says it centers around two systems in our brains: habit memory and prospective memory.

Habit memories, he says, are based on actions that are performed on a day-to-day basis that become second nature. It’s how we can drive home from work without much thought, he says. Prospective memories, on the other hand, are the preparations we make of carrying out an act, such as planning a stop at the store on the way home from work.

There’s an entire science behind it, the inner workings of our minds, but when it’s all stripped down, Diamond says it’s a matter of our habit memories, the routines we run every day, overruling our prospective memories, the added steps we’re not accustom to. Forgetting that extra step is as easy as walking to your car thinking about your day, or answering a phone call during the drive that shifts your mind’s gears, allowing the habit memory system to take over. During the transition, Diamond says our minds can create a false memory of completing the task.

Sadly, Estis’ case is far too common. Parents have been forgetting their children in hot cars for nearly 30 years, according to Kids And Cars. It’s an unthinkable tragedy that began to spike in the mid-1990s, a time when experts recommended car seats and young children be moved to the backseat due to the potential deadly dangers of passenger-side airbags.

The effects of the new laws meant to protect children ultimately put them out of sight and, in the most extreme cases, out of mind for parents, Fennell says."

[Blackcat31]

I agree those people should NOT be parents and are a plague to society but children dying in hot cars happens to all sorts of people. Do you remember the school principle that was on Oprah? She was not using drugs or going to bars she was a principle at a school and an upstanding person in her community. This has happened to doctors as well and has been well studied and documented by neuroscientists. It literally can happen to anyone!

"Dr. David Diamond has studied the inner workings of the human mind since 2004—specifically how our brains allow us to commit such a horrific act as forgetting a child in a hot car. Diamond is a neuroscientist and professor with the University of South Florida who coined the term “forgotten baby syndrome,” the mental process that leads to people to forget.

Diamond says it centers around two systems in our brains: habit memory and prospective memory.

Habit memories, he says, are based on actions that are performed on a day-to-day basis that become second nature. It’s how we can drive home from work without much thought, he says. Prospective memories, on the other hand, are the preparations we make of carrying out an act, such as planning a stop at the store on the way home from work.

There’s an entire science behind it, the inner workings of our minds, but when it’s all stripped down, Diamond says it’s a matter of our habit memories, the routines we run every day, overruling our prospective memories, the added steps we’re not accustom to. Forgetting that extra step is as easy as walking to your car thinking about your day, or answering a phone call during the drive that shifts your mind’s gears, allowing the habit memory system to take over. During the transition, Diamond says our minds can create a false memory of completing the task.

Sadly, Estis’ case is far too common. Parents have been forgetting their children in hot cars for nearly 30 years, according to Kids And Cars. It’s an unthinkable tragedy that began to spike in the mid-1990s, a time when experts recommended car seats and young children be moved to the backseat due to the potential deadly dangers of passenger-side airbags.

The effects of the new laws meant to protect children ultimately put them out of sight and, in the most extreme cases, out of mind for parents, Fennell says."

Basically this is saying that people started forgetting their kids when they got moved to the back seat.... out of sight. :confused:

That only further validates my thoughts that it is a tragic accident only .00000000001% of the time, the rest of the time, it's just carelessness.

I don't care if they are doctor's, cashiers, lawyers, waitresses, teachers, car salesmen, judges, nurses or members of the Senate.....their profession has nothing to do with their parenting.

If you are a parent you have a responsibility above and beyond your job. If your job is so stressful and time consuming that you forget your child, then you need to rethink priorities in your life.

I'm sorry but I have zero sympathy for this. I just don't.

I am a parent and not once in all my years of parenting did I forget my child. Did I make stupid decisions and do dumb things? Sure! But none of it had anything to do with forgetting.... as a parent, I lived and breathed for my child.

Forgetting them is just outside my realm of understanding.

If what you posted about our habit forming memory functions are true then why aren't kids forgotten anywhere else on a regular basis?

Do parents put their child in their bedrooms at the end of the hallway and forget about them because they are out of sight? How about when they go to the bathroom and the child stays in the living room? Do they leave the house and forget their child is still home? Then why the car? What is it about the car that makes them forget their child?

My thoughts are that if the punishment was harsher for this type of tragedy, then I bet parents would start taking it more seriously and start figuring out ways to help them be responsible for THEIR child.

Relying on car manufacturers, daycare providers or anyone else not bearing a personal responsibility in the child-parent relationship is wrong and sadly it's only one of the shifts we've seen as of late that slowly removes the responsibility of child rearing from the parent and pretty much gives them an out for putting everything or anything above their child and their child's well being.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I saw this cool baby monitor online (cannot remember where) and it was a video monitor, but it had a little stuffed animal with a camera that you could move anywhere in the house or put in the car (hung on the seat facing a rear-faced child). The car had a monitor in the front that the driver could see the baby on and the system was not tied to the car, so when you turned the car off, you still had to turn the monitor off. I thought how great a backseat camera could be for parents and maybe prevent this from happening. Car makers could make cars with them as an added feature, but not with the intended purpose of preventing these deaths, so it woudn't be a liability issue, but maybe it would help?

I don't know. These stories always make me sad. I have read much of the same studies as Ariana and it is a brain issue, not intentional. Most people ask that question..."How is it even possible?" "I could never do that!" And they are not wrong. THEY could not do it, but our brains are very powerful and they CAN do it. If you read the research on this, it is very interesting and slightly terrifying. But, in the end, it is sad and it ruins lives and families. I am not sure of this case in particular, but the majority of parents are never convicted of anything, because they never intended to cause harm...it was just a horrible accident.

[Cat Herder]

I call.

I have Safe Kids fliers and constant reminders.

"The Campaign Encourages Everyone to ACT

A: Avoid heatstroke-related injury and death by never leaving your child alone in a car, not even for a minute. Always lock your doors and trunks – even in your driveway. And keep your keys and key fobs out of the reach of kids.

C: Create reminders. Place something you'll need at your next stop - like a briefcase or cell phone - next to the child safety seat. It may seem simple, but can be a helpful reminder on a chaotic day.

T: Take action. If you see a child alone in a car, take action. Call 911. Emergency personnel are trained to respond to these situations.

In addition to safety messages and events, Never Leave Your Child Alone in a Car offers the Badge of Courage award, a recognition program for heroes who take action to prevent unattended child fatalities from heatstroke.

Safe Kids also supports NHTSA’s heatstroke education campaign, “Where’s Baby? Look Before You Lock,” and welcomes the increased national coordination on the issue. In 2012, Safe Kids partnered with NHTSA Administrator David Strickland to host news conferences around the country to raise awareness about heatstroke in children and urge parents and caregivers to ACT to help prevent future tragedies. "

All that said: This case is very different. That. Is. All.

[cassiesue]

Live near there

I haven't really been following the trial, but do live near there. I'm not sure if he did it on purpose or not, but I do know he received a group email or text from his child's center and that supposedly did not jog his memory.

At this point, we are not required to call or track our absent clients, but the lady from Bright from the Start advised me that they are considering adding that in to the regulations. Personally I don't like the idea. I don't have time to track my parents. A couple of my parents have schedule changes frequently. I love the idea of contracted hours, but here that is not the norm.

I am definitely absent minded and forget a lot of things, but even I have NEVER left my child. I don't see how that could happen, but I suppose it does. I vaguely even remember a juvenile judge that had a child die due to this. I am paranoid when it comes to checking the car after field trips also. We have 3 field trips scheduled this week. I double and triple check behind myself and my assistant.

Personally I do not like the new regs that have a child up to age 2 facing the rear. I think that potentially could have a child be less noticeable for anyone that is liable to "forget" their child.

[daycarediva]

Maybe the car industry doesn't want to take on this liability either. If the seat/alarm what ever they design should fail they would be held liable for the death of the child.

Basically this is saying that people started forgetting their kids when they got moved to the back seat.... out of sight. :confused:

That only further validates my thoughts that it is a tragic accident only .00000000001% of the time, the rest of the time, it's just carelessness.

I don't care if they are doctor's, cashiers, lawyers, waitresses, teachers, car salesmen, judges, nurses or members of the Senate.....their profession has nothing to do with their parenting.

If you are a parent you have a responsibility above and beyond your job. If your job is so stressful and time consuming that you forget your child, then you need to rethink priorities in your life.

I'm sorry but I have zero sympathy for this. I just don't.

I am a parent and not once in all my years of parenting did I forget my child. Did I make stupid decisions and do dumb things? Sure! But none of it had anything to do with forgetting.... as a parent, I lived and breathed for my child.

Forgetting them is just outside my realm of understanding.

If what you posted about our habit forming memory functions are true then why aren't kids forgotten anywhere else on a regular basis?

Do parents put their child in their bedrooms at the end of the hallway and forget about them because they are out of sight? How about when they go to the bathroom and the child stays in the living room? Do they leave the house and forget their child is still home? Then why the car? What is it about the car that makes them forget their child?

My thoughts are that if the punishment was harsher for this type of tragedy, then I bet parents would start taking it more seriously and start figuring out ways to help them be responsible for THEIR child.

Relying on car manufacturers, daycare providers or anyone else not bearing a personal responsibility in the child-parent relationship is wrong and sadly it's only one of the shifts we've seen as of late that slowly removes the responsibility of child rearing from the parent and pretty much gives them an out for putting everything or anything above their child and their child's well being.

proverbial nail on the head. Maybe a TINY percentage of these are accidents, but the rest? Absolutely deliberate or completely negligent.

I have NEVER forgotten my children ANYWHERE. I have 4 of them. They had varied schedules when they were young with therapy appointments and medical appointments and different daycares/preschools. Sometimes I would do them or dh would. We never left one in the car, or anywhere else for that matter. I'm not by any means a perfect parent, but I just CANNOT justify the death of a child with an excuse.

Same with SIDS now- parents know and chose to disregard safe sleep practices, if their child dies, they were negligent.

Personal accountability. Parents need to be held responsible.