Sensitive Issue

[SilverSabre25]

has she recently been made to stop sucking her thumb/chewing nails/other "stimming" type habits?

What about using a pacifier clip to attach something like a swatch of silky fabric or a teether or something and redirect her to that?

[MrsSteinel'sHouse]

This child could be the victim of abuse like Wednesday said. I use the be a police officer & worked in child abuse/neglect division. Victims of abuse may touch themselves where others have touched them. Sad but true.

This- I would call CPS, it is not normal and is a huge sign of abuse.

[Michelle]

This- I would call CPS, it is not normal and is a huge sign of abuse.

it is not a huge sign of abuse in and of itself!
I don't think a provider should overreact like this
maybe ask some questions and watch for other behavior of abuse but this is very normal curiosity and should just be told " not at school"
mention it to mom and be aware if child fears certain people or watches inappropriate shows at home etc.
jeez

[KiddieCahoots]

Dr first to rule out an infection, especially a yeast infection. Yes, kids get them very young. If there's nothing physically wrong with her, then NO, this is not normal. It's normal to occasionally touch themselves there, to explore and discover what's down there, but many times a day for days or weeks on end, NO. Something is going on here that shouldn't be. Someone has abused her, coached her, or something similar. Totally agreeing with nannyde here.

Call CPS!
Children at the age of 4 yrs start to develop a sense of self conscience. My 3yr olds get embarrassed to go to time out. Touching, exploring, and masturbating themselves is normal, constantly masturbating themselves raw and spreading their naked legs in public are learned behaviors of abuse.
You are describing children that I have known and worked with that were severely sexually abused.

[tehck_1013]

I am really grossed out by this. I absolutely would not allow this in my home, and most certainly not in front of the rest of the kids in my care. I completely agree with nannyde on this one. There's a difference between grabbing yourself when your diaper is open to feel whats there (like babies do) and regularly touching yourself because it feels good.... I wouldn't shame her, but I just wouldn't allow it. I would nicely tell her that she needs to stop, and that she cannot do that at miss _____'s house at all. I don't care whether her parents are completely okay with her laying around naked going to town or not (which is completely disturbing) but she will know I do not tolerate it here. smh.

You say mom tells her to go to her room to do it, so why does dcg think it's perfectly acceptable to do it on the couch, or to strip and do it wherever she is...? I'd assume the mom is lying and just not doing anything about it, and would wonder what kind of weird stuff the girl is being exposed to at home.

I'd consider terming if she could not/will not control herself.

[debbiedoeszip]

Masturbation, amongst all age groups, is normal (all the way from babies to centenarians). It's not socially acceptable when done in public, but neither are many other behaviours that children exhibit that are also perfectly normal. I realize that many, if not most, will find it incredibly uncomfortable to see a child doing this (count me in), but that doesn't make it less normal a behaviour.

Now, that doesn't mean that normal is synonymous with socially acceptable. It's our job (50 or so hours per week) to teach these small children how to behave. They don't come to us already socialized. And I'm not going to treat the behaviour like it's some kind of sex crime (nor do I believe that it, in the absence of any other kind of sexual behaviour, is indicative of sexual abuse).

I don't like the idea of backwards pjs for a 4yo. The idea is to correct without shaming, and making a 4yo wear pjs instead of regular clothes (especially if there are any other kids their age) might cause shame. Overalls might be a better choice, though she'll need assistance with them when she needs to use the toilet. Other than that, help her find an acceptable activity that is as fun (or more fun) than playing with herself.

[debbiedoeszip]

Call CPS!
Children at the age of 4 yrs start to develop a sense of self conscience. My 3yr olds get embarrassed to go to time out. Touching, exploring, and masturbating themselves is normal, constantly masturbating themselves raw and spreading their naked legs in public are learned behaviors of abuse.
You are describing children that I have known and worked with that were severely sexually abused.

Not all of them. Some are delayed in that area. My DS, who has ADHD and some other issues, had no shame for a long time. He wasn't abused, he just wasn't typical in that area.

[debbiedoeszip]

I am really grossed out by this. I absolutely would not allow this in my home, and most certainly not in front of the rest of the kids in my care. I completely agree with nannyde on this one. There's a difference between grabbing yourself when your diaper is open to feel whats there (like babies do) and regularly touching yourself because it feels good.... I wouldn't shame her, but I just wouldn't allow it. I would nicely tell her that she needs to stop, and that she cannot do that at miss _____'s house at all. I don't care whether her parents are completely okay with her laying around naked going to town or not (which is completely disturbing) but she will know I do not tolerate it here. smh.

You say mom tells her to go to her room to do it, so why does dcg think it's perfectly acceptable to do it on the couch, or to strip and do it wherever she is...? I'd assume the mom is lying and just not doing anything about it, and would wonder what kind of weird stuff the girl is being exposed to at home.

I'd consider terming if she could not/will not control herself.

Holy cow! Who said they were allowing this? Um, ewwwww!

[debbiedoeszip]

I am really grossed out by this. I absolutely would not allow this in my home, and most certainly not in front of the rest of the kids in my care. I completely agree with nannyde on this one. There's a difference between grabbing yourself when your diaper is open to feel whats there (like babies do) and regularly touching yourself because it feels good.... I wouldn't shame her, but I just wouldn't allow it. I would nicely tell her that she needs to stop, and that she cannot do that at miss _____'s house at all. I don't care whether her parents are completely okay with her laying around naked going to town or not (which is completely disturbing) but she will know I do not tolerate it here. smh.

You say mom tells her to go to her room to do it, so why does dcg think it's perfectly acceptable to do it on the couch, or to strip and do it wherever she is...? I'd assume the mom is lying and just not doing anything about it, and would wonder what kind of weird stuff the girl is being exposed to at home.

I'd consider terming if she could not/will not control herself.

Ok, I just read through all the posts and not a single person has said that they would allow a daycare child, or any child, to masturbate openly at daycare (or anywhere in public). Apparently, my use of the word normal has confused many people into thinking that I might allow this. "Normal" isn't synonymous with "allowed" or even "acceptable".

[Michelle]

Masturbation, amongst all age groups, is normal (all the way from babies to centenarians). It's not socially acceptable when done in public, but neither are many other behaviours that children exhibit that are also perfectly normal. I realize that many, if not most, will find it incredibly uncomfortable to see a child doing this (count me in), but that doesn't make it less normal a behaviour.

Now, that doesn't mean that normal is synonymous with socially acceptable. It's our job (50 or so hours per week) to teach these small children how to behave. They don't come to us already socialized. And I'm not going to treat the behaviour like it's some kind of sex crime (nor do I believe that it, in the absence of any other kind of sexual behaviour, is indicative of sexual abuse).

I don't like the idea of backwards pjs for a 4yo. The idea is to correct without shaming, and making a 4yo wear pjs instead of regular clothes (especially if there are any other kids their age) might cause shame. Overalls might be a better choice, though she'll need assistance with them when she needs to use the toilet. Other than that, help her find an acceptable activity that is as fun (or more fun) than playing with herself.

exactly

[tehck_1013]

Ok, I just read through all the posts and not a single person has said that they would allow a daycare child, or any child, to masturbate openly at daycare (or anywhere in public). Apparently, my use of the word normal has confused many people into thinking that I might allow this. "Normal" isn't synonymous with "allowed" or even "acceptable".

Forgive me, but I am a little confused as to what you were trying to say here. The first sentence makes it seem as if you are appalled that nobody permits this behavior at daycare. :confused: But then your second sentence reaffirms that normal does not mean allowed. Unless you were just correcting your second to last post in which case what you said would make sense. Sorry. Anyways, I never said the behavior was not normal... just that I wouldn't allow it. I also wouldn't just term for no reason. I really would try to get her to stop. I'd give it time, but like I said, WOULD consider terming if she couldn't control herself. It would come down to the appropriateness and other children being exposed.

[KayB]

I have good success with, "Stop. That is not for daycare." This doesn't interfere with the parents rules at home but it ends the behavior quickly. It's no different here from standing on a chair, running in the house, leaving the yard etc. You just don't do it here.

I LOVE what Meyou said! I am definitely going to try that and see if it works with some of the stuff my kids do here!

[Blackcat31]

Ok, I just read through all the posts and not a single person has said that they would allow a daycare child, or any child, to masturbate openly at daycare (or anywhere in public). Apparently, my use of the word normal has confused many people into thinking that I might allow this. "Normal" isn't synonymous with "allowed" or even "acceptable".

I also do not think it is something we need to immediately call CPS over....

It's a self soothing mechanism for some children. The pleasure is no different than sucking their thumb or stroking the satin edge of a blanket or any other sensory seeking behavior.

I had a 4 yr old in care that would frequently masturbate during nap time.

She was not a victim of sexual abuse and although she came from a pretty dysfunctional family, it was nothing more than an attempt to self-soothe.

With a bit of re-direction, assistance and support from both myself and her parent, the child eventually learned it was not okay to do at daycare.

Apparently she continued to have this behavior though well after leaving my care but was perfectly content to limit it to her own bedroom at home.

Child is now 7 and mom tells me she has since stopped although she (mom) is not aware of when she stopped since she only did it in her own room.

[MarinaVanessa]

I have been to CPS trainings and and all of them (in CA) I was told NOT to question the parent or the child because you could accidentally put ideas into the child's head while fishing for answers making it more difficult for the authorities to make a case in the instance of abuse if there really is abuse or having a false case opened if there is no abuse. In some cases of abuse speaking and questioning the child or parent can alert the parent/abuser that you are suspicious and most often than not the child is pulled from the program and moved which isn't ideal.

It is recommended that you call licensing and report to them what you have observed and ask what their recommendation is. Licensing may simply file sk you to note it and file a report and then to report back later or they may immediately recommend that you report it to CPS. They also say that if you are unsure of whether to report or not you can simply call CPS and tell them what you are observing and they can determine whether or not it reportable and they will tell you what to do and what not to do.

Simply touching oneself is not a sure sign that the child is being abused but can be an indicator. You don't know if this child is doing so because she saw someone do it somewhere (at home or on tv), someone is doing it to her or simply because is started as an innocent once in a while thing and has now become a regular everyday thing because no one has curbed it yet but I would def call at least licensing to at least ask. Remember, child care providers are mandated reporters and it doesn't hurt to call and ask for advice. If anything licensing can recommend to you how to approach the situation and what you should do about it if it's deemed that it's not serious enough to be reported to CPS or to have an investigation opened. They may be a great resource and even motivator for DCM to curb the behavior (if it's innocent behavior) if you can say "my licensing analyst said I have to handle this situation like this ...".

I'm curious to know if this happens in public with mom and dad like at other peoples houses, stores etc. and what the parent's reactions are :confused:

[Blackcat31]

Some helpful articles about this

http://www.childrenshealthnetwork.org/CRS/CRS/pa_bmasturb_hhg.htm

http://www.parenting.com/article/ask-dr-sears-masturbation-in-preschoolers

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/puberty/pages/Masturbation.aspx

http://www.creators.com/advice/sylvia-rimm-on-raising-kids/masturbation-is-common-for-preschool-girls.html