11.5 Hours A Day In Daycare?

[mac60]

Comparing America to China is not a fair comparison....if I remember correctly, they are only allowed 1 child....and if they have 2, well then, ever seen the living conditions of many of the population of China the horror stories of young children working long hours for pennies a day.....no comparison at all.

[daycare]

Comparing America to China is not a fair comparison....if I remember correctly, they are only allowed 1 child....and if they have 2, well then, ever seen the living conditions of many of the population of China the horror stories of young children working long hours for pennies a day.....no comparison at all.

this is why I said apples to oranges.... I think we are all getting of the path of what the subject is here, which is face time with parents.

like I said before, everyone has their rights to choose how to raise their child and there really is no wrong or right way is there?

Working long hours does not make you a bad parent, I don't ever recall reading that any where??

[jen]

I don't think it’s unfair to state that, I know "life happens" and the tough gets going when the going gets tough. I just don't offer services to those families anymore, as I don't think it is fair to the child.
I do feel that adults should be the one to have to make sacrifices. Why is it necessary for every family to have to keep up with the Jones’s?

I was once a single parent with two kids for a long length of time and I had to do what I had to do to make ends meet. But I did not let that stop me from coaching their soccer teams, spending quality time with them outside of work and so forth. I went without a lot of stuff and lived my life for my children. I could have worked the 45 hour work week plus commute time, as I lived in Orange County and that is commute He!!....

But it was not my children's fault and therefore I gave up everything I could that would help better their lives. I sold my fancy car and bought a used one, I kept healthy so I could wear the same clothes for 10years.. I did everything in my power to make sure that dad and I were the one's raising them. When they were at dad's I worked more hours, worked weekends or odd jobs to make ends meet.

Parents don't stop to think about who is really affected and just except that working 12+ hour days as their way of life.......
I think that it is selfish and sad............ I know that if I could do this with two young kids as a single mom and finishing school at the same time that ANYONE could do it too.

If only parents realized that their kids really only want time with their mom/dad to be held, read to, played with, sang to or just be near them, parents would not be killing themself to work many hours to buy all of the uncessary things...........

I completely understand your point and I couldn't agree more...

I just want to add...I've had more than one client who chose to have 2nd and 3rd children, knowing full well that they only had 2 hours per day with the first.

Life didn't just happen, they made a choice to have more children when they only had very limited time with the first. It's not fair to those kids.

[daycare]

True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math… In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...

[jen]

[B]2nd part: WHY do you assume that all parents who work long hours do it for a house/car/luxury of some sort? What about the single Mom who works two jobs to pay RENT and rides the bus, which adds to commute time? Not every, or even most, parents who work long hours do it for extravagances, they do it to meet basic needs.

You make an interesting point in that a providers perspective is probably based on their experiences with the clients that they have dealt with. I've encoutered the major hours parents only 2 times and neither of them were forced to leave the kids in care for extended time frames:

1. During the interview process I learn that Dad works three 12 hour shifts...Friday, Saturday and Sunday. They need care because, as Dad said..."I don't like to care for children." Nice. I did not accept them in to care.

2. Mom worked .4 or 4 shifts in two weeks, at least 2 of those shifts were on the weekend and she went to class for 2 hours, two times per week. The kids were here 55 hours per week. One time she told me she was late to pick them up because she got off work 30 minutes early so she went home to watch TV and fell asleep. She didn't work or go to school for two consecutive summers and guess what...still had kids in care for the full 55 hours per week. Oh, one of those children was a 12 week old. I eventually terminated for a variety of reasons, including late payments, late pick-ups, and behavioral problems. When I terminated the family, Mom was irrate and informed me that I was taking her children from "the only stability they have ever known." Which was true, and after 5 years of watching those kids I felt horrible about it. But, it isn't a providers job to supply stability. It's a parents.

So, I would agree that MOST parent, at least in my experience want to spend time with their kids. However, in my experience, the ones who bring their kids for outrageous hours every single week, do it by choice.

I've had two single Mom's, neither of them brought their kids to me more than 45 hours per week. One of them never took lunch and they both brought work home ALOT. But they prized their time with their kids and did whatever they could to protect it. To be honest, in my experience, single Mom's work even harder than most to make time for their children.

[Crystal]

can I ask you a question? Have you ever been a single parent?

I'm not sure why it would matter, but yes, I have been. I became a parent at the age of 19. I was the Mom who worked two jobs and rode the bus to and from work. I didn't have a car. I lived in a modest apartment. I wore old clothes. But I provided for my child. My Mom babysat for me. And I paid her. I was lucky at the time to have her to do that for me, otherwise he would have been in daycare for those LONG hours that I HAD to work. I did not want government assistance, I wanted to be the one to provide for him - after all, as it has been said it was my CHOICE to have a child (even though it was an accidental pregnancy I still made the CHOICE to have him) The dad was never in his life and I never recieved a penny from him.....another reason why I had to work long hours and couldn't have the other parent provide child care or pick up/drop off from child care so he would have to be there less hours.

Even working those long hours, I did not have the money to buy the best of the best. I was able to provide basic needs for my son. I worked my way up, and when I married and had my second child I ended up starting my child care program, because the only child care I could find was inadequate to say the least......

[Crystal]

True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math… In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...

This is a sad and in the end a wonderful story, but I am wondering how it applies to this discussion? No offense intended, I just really don't see what this has to do with a parent needing 11 hours of daycare.

[nikia]

12 hours is way too many hours for any child to be in child care of any age. With that being said, I do understand that parents need to work. But I really think that parents should have thought about that before having kids. Why have a child so someone else can raise your child? I get needing to work, location, and so on, but I think that it is sad that the child knows the provider more than their own parent.

Bolded part I think is unfair...but thats just my opinion

True...... everything is a choice, but then there are also those special circumstances as well, exceptopm to the rule...

The reason I say this, is because I became a parent at the age of 19, while still in college. My best friend and her boyfriend had a baby during our first year of college. He was a dead beat dad and took off. During this time, my best friend and I lived together (friends for several years) and one of the most awful devastating things one could think of happened, the mom was killed in a car accident. This is a very long story, but to cut to the point, I chose to step up and raise the child. I tried for years to find the father, but never did. My friend had no family to help raise the baby, as she was thrown from one foster famiy to the next when growing up and I had no clue who her real parents were.. The baby was was 9 months when she passed. For years I struggled to give this child (MY CHILD) a life that he deserved. I dropped out of school, and worked my tail end off, I had to receive government assistance, I had to go without a lot of things, but one thing I knew for sure that my child was NEVER ever going to go without ME.

After years of trying to find any family to help care for him everything failed. Finally when my son turned 6 I went to court to request the right to adopt him. On May 16, 2000, I fully and legally adopted my son. This subject hits so close to home for me and has brought me to tears just having to type this.
My son is now 15 and he tells me all the time, do you remember when you used to get the boxes from the subway by our old house so that we could have stuff to play with. My son 15 now builds these same forts and castles with his little brother age 3.5. Also, my son has made presidents honor every year, plays every sport known to man and has been invited to meet the president of the United States this summer by the National Young Leaders Conference. I am still in college and often have to ask him for help with my math… In the end, there is NO greater feeling knowing that I helped pave this path for my son, not a DC provider, not a stranger, ME, a college drop out, who used to clean toilets at the gas station, me who had nothing to give but ME…….
While this is a rare occasion, life sometimes does happen.... and as I say this, there is an exception for every rule....well unless you’re Jessica Tata...

I think its a wonderful thing that you have done

I have a question though and Im curious and mean no disrespect, what if you HAD worked 12 hours a day even with going without things and state assistance, no help from family and your daycare provider looked at you with the thought of its sad she is away from him for so long she should have thought about that before she raised him? I am taking some of your comments in that way, like the first quote. If you had to work 12 hours to just keep food on the table, give him clothes, and shelter you would do that, but to have someone judge you because you would have to work more than a person with a spouse or whatever the case may be would probably be pretty upsetting and I guess I feel like if a parent were reading this, someone who has to work those 12 hours, I think they would feel pretty upset and hurt by some of the comments.

[Missani]

Here's a story for you. I am in my 30s and have a younger sister in her mid-20s. My mother was a single mother who had worked as a secretary and a teacher and always planned tosomeday be a SHM. Life changed and she found herself single with 2 young daughters. My sister and I were in daycare from 7:30-6:00 every day. This was considered so extreme that we had to change daycares to find one that was open enough hours to cover this, and my mom's family gave her a ton of grief for putting us in daycare for so long each day. No one I knew went to daycare nearly as long as I did. We went to a wonderful provider who offered a fabulous DAP program and full preschool program-even 20 some years ago. (My former provider is still an important part of my life now.)

My mom went back to school at night and earned her MBA. Besides being in daycare so long each day, we also had a babysitter 2 nights/week when my mom had class. She is still single, owns a great home/car, and is now an executive at a local hospital. I am really proud of her and all that she has accomplished.

So, how did we turn out? Well, we are fine. We both have a great relationship with our mom. We did great in school and have great jobs, etc. I have children but my sister does not yet.

So, what does that show? Well, nothing really. My mom sincerely feels like she missed out on a lot when we were kids. She admits that, at the time, she felt our provider did a better job caring for us than she did. She says that, for that reason, she never felt guilty sending us on days she took off etc. so that she could catch up on school work. She says that she did what she had to do at the time, and that she doesn't regret it or feel guilty (which she shouldn't) but that she does wish she had more time with us. She does spend a LOT of time with my sons and will play games, etc. with them that she never did with us, but I think a lot of grandparents do that.

The funniest thing, if you ask me, is that by today's standards I think we were in daycare for a reasonable and average amount of time. I think it's funny that 10 hours a day has gone from "so extreme" to common in the last 20 years or so. All of my dcks are here for 10 hours a day now.

Anyway, I don't realy have a point here, I just wanted to recap this situation 20 years later as my sister and I are adults now. We had little face time with our mom, we had a great provider, we turned out well-that's really my point. The rest are just details that show both sides of the story.

I still don't think that MOST parents should need 12 hours a day/5 days per week childcare. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but I don't think it's common to have to work really long days, every day of the week, with a long commute, with no one else to provide care to the child so he/she doesn't have to be in daycare so long. SOME people are single parents, SOME work long shifts (but not always 5 days/week), SOME have 2 parents working long hours, SOME have long commutes, but not MANY have ALL of these things. I still think it's a long time in daycare.

For those of you who do work long shifts, it is hard work. I've been there. For those of you who do work long shifts and still spend a lot of face time with your children-congrats to you. I know when I worked long days, I didn't get to do that. I left before they were awake in the morning, I picked them up at 5:00, got them home by 5:30, fed them, gave them a quick bath and a story, and put them to bed about 7:00-7:30. They needed the sleep to do it all again the next day. I hated it, but I only had to do it 3 days/week so that I could spend the other 4 days with them, so it was worth it to me. I, personally, probably would have felt differently if I had to do it every day and would have had to come up with a different solution to see my children more. That's just me, though.

I don't think any of us are saying that you can NEVER have time with your children and work long days. I don't think we are saying that you can't work a lot of hours and NEVER be a good parent. I don't think we are saying that ALL parents who work long hours are wanting to be away from their children (I really don't think any parent really WANTS to be away from their child-although sometimes it seems like it so there are exceptions to that as well. I think MOST parents want to be with their children.) And I really don't think any of us are saying that we think parents don't have to work and could sacrifice to be at home with their children. If that were the case, I don't think we'd be providers-we'd just stay home. And, if that were the case, we would surely be wishing ourselves out of a job. What we are saying is that, while we understand that it can be necessary in SOME circumstances, the bottom line is that 60 hours/week is a lot of time in daycare. Okay, off my soapbox and back to my lovely children that are ALL here at least 50 hours/week-including my own.

[nannyde]

I agree our system is unique in that daycare is big business, instead of relatives or close friends taking care of the kids, but what difference does it make in the actual care?

There's a lot of difference. The primary one is supervision and who does the supervision.

There's a fundamental understanding that children can and will get hurt and even die. The care of the children is done in large part by other children... primarily female children.

Watch the movie "Babies" with particular attention to the Mongolian and Namibia babies. Watch the Duggars first couple of seasons and see who really takes care of the kids. Study up on the FLDS and Yearning for Zion ranch and see who really takes care of the kids.

The laws we have in place are rooted in safety with the understanding that WE must make sure there are no accidents.

I have a newborn in my house. I have to check on him every few minutes. Some states you have to be in the same room with them at all times. This same baby goes home and at night sleeps by himself without anyone up watching him sleep for hours and hours on end. There doesn't even have to be an adult UP ... the adults can be sleeping when he is in the hosue.

The four dollars an hour I receive for him makes me have a much higher level of accountability for his safety. If he were with family they wouldn't be expected to stay awake the entire time he is with them. They could nap every day at nap time.

I can't allow him to sleep in a swing. If I were in California I wouldn't be allowed to HAVE a swing for my day care. The minute the child walks out the door the parents can use whatever "confinement" equipment they want on the SAME baby.

If I had only my tribe here with me... my family and extended family... the kids who are over two would have been OUTSIDE all morning this morning playing in my very safe back yard... WITHOUT an adult... just like I did when I was growing up. My two dogs would have been out there with them and I wouldn't have had to proove to anyone that I got the dogs their "shots" or their physical. I wouldn't have taken them for a walk and they could have gotten drinks out of my garden house. I could have put some sandwhiches on a paper towel and let them have at it.

There's NO comparison to the lack of liability one has taking care of kids communally then what we have. I have a child and he wasn't raised with one one hundredths of the rules I have to abide by with my day care kids. He spent HOURS running thru my house going from room to room without any adults in the same room. If he acted up I could use spanking or confinement as a punishment. If I wanted my seven year old neice to carry him around and change his diapers.. I could... I didn't have to follow a food program with him... he could go outside and play whenever he wanted after the age of three.... he could sleep when he wanted.. watch TV when he wanted... do pretty much whatever he wanted within the small framework of reasonable safety a parent has to oblige.

I could go on forever but it DOES make a difference to the child to be with people who DON'T have to follow the same safety rules WE do because there are specific laws in place to govern safety, how we conduct ourselves, what we use in their care, and WHO can actually care for the kids.

There's NO comparison between the life these kids have at home and the life they live here. They NEED to be HOME with their FAMILY. They NEED to have AWAKE time with thier PARENTS.

[daycare]

I would never judge ANYONE, I just don't agree with it. Like I said everyone has to do what they have to do. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I would never voice my opinion to a parent and that's all it is MY OPINION... I am allowed to have my own opinion, but it does not make it right or wrong.

Also, I hope that you realize that I was leaning more towards those families that CHOOSE to work the long hours, not that HAVE to work the long hours.

[daycare]

Here's a story for you. I am in my 30s and have a younger sister in her mid-20s. My mother was a single mother who had worked as a secretary and a teacher and always planned tosomeday be a SHM. Life changed and she found herself single with 2 young daughters. My sister and I were in daycare from 7:30-6:00 every day. This was considered so extreme that we had to change daycares to find one that was open enough hours to cover this, and my mom's family gave her a ton of grief for putting us in daycare for so long each day. No one I knew went to daycare nearly as long as I did. We went to a wonderful provider who offered a fabulous DAP program and full preschool program-even 20 some years ago. (My former provider is still an important part of my life now.)

My mom went back to school at night and earned her MBA. Besides being in daycare so long each day, we also had a babysitter 2 nights/week when my mom had class. She is still single, owns a great home/car, and is now an executive at a local hospital. I am really proud of her and all that she has accomplished.

So, how did we turn out? Well, we are fine. We both have a great relationship with our mom. We did great in school and have great jobs, etc. I have children but my sister does not yet.

So, what does that show? Well, nothing really. My mom sincerely feels like she missed out on a lot when we were kids. She admits that, at the time, she felt our provider did a better job caring for us than she did. She says that, for that reason, she never felt guilty sending us on days she took off etc. so that she could catch up on school work. She says that she did what she had to do at the time, and that she doesn't regret it or feel guilty (which she shouldn't) but that she does wish she had more time with us. She does spend a LOT of time with my sons and will play games, etc. with them that she never did with us, but I think a lot of grandparents do that.

The funniest thing, if you ask me, is that by today's standards I think we were in daycare for a reasonable and average amount of time. I think it's funny that 10 hours a day has gone from "so extreme" to common in the last 20 years or so. All of my dcks are here for 10 hours a day now.

Anyway, I don't realy have a point here, I just wanted to recap this situation 20 years later as my sister and I are adults now. We had little face time with our mom, we had a great provider, we turned out well-that's really my point. The rest are just details that show both sides of the story.

I still don't think that MOST parents should need 12 hours a day/5 days per week childcare. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but I don't think it's common to have to work really long days, every day of the week, with a long commute, with no one else to provide care to the child so he/she doesn't have to be in daycare so long. SOME people are single parents, SOME work long shifts (but not always 5 days/week), SOME have 2 parents working long hours, SOME have long commutes, but not MANY have ALL of these things. I still think it's a long time in daycare.

For those of you who do work long shifts, it is hard work. I've been there. For those of you who do work long shifts and still spend a lot of face time with your children-congrats to you. I know when I worked long days, I didn't get to do that. I left before they were awake in the morning, I picked them up at 5:00, got them home by 5:30, fed them, gave them a quick bath and a story, and put them to bed about 7:00-7:30. They needed the sleep to do it all again the next day. I hated it, but I only had to do it 3 days/week so that I could spend the other 4 days with them, so it was worth it to me. I, personally, probably would have felt differently if I had to do it every day and would have had to come up with a different solution to see my children more. That's just me, though.

I don't think any of us are saying that you can NEVER have time with your children and work long days. I don't think we are saying that you can't work a lot of hours and NEVER be a good parent. I don't think we are saying that ALL parents who work long hours are wanting to be away from their children (I really don't think any parent really WANTS to be away from their child-although sometimes it seems like it so there are exceptions to that as well. I think MOST parents want to be with their children.) And I really don't think any of us are saying that we think parents don't have to work and could sacrifice to be at home with their children. If that were the case, I don't think we'd be providers-we'd just stay home. And, if that were the case, we would surely be wishing ourselves out of a job. What we are saying is that, while we understand that it can be necessary in SOME circumstances, the bottom line is that 60 hours/week is a lot of time in daycare. Okay, off my soapbox and back to my lovely children that are ALL here at least 50 hours/week-including my own.

I don't think any of us are saying that you can NEVER have time with your children and work long days. I don't think we are saying that you can't work a lot of hours and NEVER be a good parent. I don't think we are saying that ALL parents who work long hours are wanting to be away from their children (I really don't think any parent really WANTS to be away from their child-although sometimes it seems like it so there are exceptions to that as well. I think MOST parents want to be with their children.) And I really don't think any of us are saying that we think parents don't have to work and could sacrifice to be at home with their children. If that were the case, I don't think we'd be providers-we'd just stay home. And, if that were the case, we would surely be wishing ourselves out of a job. What we are saying is that, while we understand that it can be necessary in SOME circumstances, the bottom line is that 60 hours/week is a lot of time in daycare. Okay, off my soapbox and back to my lovely children that are ALL here at least 50 hours/week-including my own.

This!!!! Well said and 100% agree...

[nikia]

I would never judge ANYONE, I just don't agree with it. Like I said everyone has to do what they have to do. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going. I would never voice my opinion to a parent and that's all it is MY OPINION... I am allowed to have my own opinion, but it does not make it right or wrong.

Also, I hope that you realize that I was leaning more towards those families that CHOOSE to work the long hours, not that HAVE to work the long hours.

I didnt say you could not have your opinion I was simply asking a question that if you HAD to work those hours. It just seems that on here lately and I do not mean YOU when I say this, it is very judgemental lately. I keep seeing on this thread its sad, its bad, parents should have thought about before they had kids, not everyone that works 12 hours is doing it for cars, houses and such they are doing it to survive and I FEEL that by lumping everyone together in the they do it for cars, house category its unfair, which is what I think most people do on here ( and I will include myself) but now that I am going back to work outside the home and will have a nanny watch my kids in the summer I am starting to see things from the other side and I would be upset if my nanny or daycare provider thought I was less because I HAD to work 12 hours.

The orginal post didnt say anything about if she knew the persons circumstance it only said she wanted to email them back and let them know she thought it was a long day, whos to say that person wasnt a single mom, who HAD to not so that she could buy new clothes and cars but because she needed to put food on the table, that is judgemental and that is my OPINION

[daycare]

This is a sad and in the end a wonderful story, but I am wondering how it applies to this discussion? No offense intended, I just really don't see what this has to do with a parent needing 11 hours of daycare.

I am just saying that not every single parent HAS to work long hours as stated...
Not every single mom has to work two jobs.

[Crystal]

I am just saying that not every single parent HAS to work long hours as stated...
Not every single mom has to work two jobs.

You're right. Not every single parent HAS to work long hours. But, many prefer to not use government assistance.....like me. I made a CHOICE to have my child, so I owned the responsibility of caring for and providing for him. (disclaimer: I do not have a problem with people who NEED assistance recieving it, but when an able-bodied person relies on it when they could get a job, I do have a problem with it)

So, basically what has been said by you is, parents should think about such issues before they make the CHOICE to have children so that their kids don't have to be in daycare too many hours. But it's okay if they make the CHOICE to have those kids anyway, to go ahead and let the Gov. provide for them so they don't have to be in daycare too many hours? I'm not sure if that's what you are implying or not, so please, do clarify for me. (and I am not referring to your situation with your son....I think it was very noble of you to do what you did)