Tricked? Into Taking Special Needs Kiddo

[LysesKids]

It DOES sound "shady" because it IS "shady.

I understand what you are saying and the logic in thinking but as a parent (not a provider) I just couldn't imagine lying (even by omission) simply to get my child enrolled somewhere. :confused:

It might work in a million other situations but I just wouldn't feel as if my child was receiving truly authentic and genuine care if my provider felt betrayed, lied to or mis-led.

It might not be such a big deal in regards to other legal constraints (ie: not wanting to have a public restroom or something less personal) but I just don't see ANY provider I've ever known (virtually or IRL) that wouldn't act differently towards a parent that "tricked" them in some way....kwim?

I also understand that parents of special needs kids want their children cared for just like every other child but as much as they want that, it doesn't change the fact that their child isn't just like every other child.

My child has/had special needs (I say 'had' only because they aren't a child any longer) and I couldn't imagine my child being cared for in an environment not aware of, not trained or not wanting to deal with my child's unique need.

See, I would want to know upfront, because I have my own partial disability & it could affect the care I give especially since my home cannot be retro-fitted for special equipment due to space issues alone... I'm looking at selling because I can't find a way to make my home ADA for myself much less a special needs baby. And with so few kids & the small space, paying someone is not an option even if it's only $100 week as I only gross 450 right now. I'm not making ends meet because I still have an open position too, but 2 adults in this small home with kids... wouldn't work. My home was bought to exact footage for 4 babies under 24 months and my bedroom (which is off limits) once toys & furniture was placed

[MarinaVanessa]

It DOES sound "shady" because it IS "shady.

I understand what you are saying and the logic in thinking but as a parent (not a provider) I just couldn't imagine lying (even by omission) simply to get my child enrolled somewhere. :confused:

It might work in a million other situations but I just wouldn't feel as if my child was receiving truly authentic and genuine care if my provider felt betrayed, lied to or mis-led.

It might not be such a big deal in regards to other legal constraints (ie: not wanting to have a public restroom or something less personal) but I just don't see ANY provider I've ever known (virtually or IRL) that wouldn't act differently towards a parent that "tricked" them in some way....kwim?

I also understand that parents of special needs kids want their children cared for just like every other child but as much as they want that, it doesn't change the fact that their child isn't just like every other child.

My child has/had special needs (I say 'had' only because they aren't a child any longer) and I couldn't imagine my child being cared for in an environment not aware of, not trained or not wanting to deal with my child's unique need.

I guess I'm just saying that I understand why parents don't alert providers about this just like I understand why providers don't alert potential landlords in CA that they do daycare ... because 9 out of 10 times they will be rejected just for that one reason.

And I'm not even talking about the people that lie about it, I'm talking about the people that don't divulge the information until after they have been accepted for fear of being dismissed outright without even a chance.

[Mike]

Not enough. You have to find the solution to providing appropriate care for a child with a disability. So, if the experts tell you can provide care with some training and help from the parents/outside resources, you have to provide the care. If the experts tell you that another adult needs to be present to provide the appropriate care, then you need to find out if there are any volunteers who can help. If so, you must provide the care. If not, then you need to find out how much it would cost to hire the extra adult. If the cost is "significant" you don't have to provide the care. What is "significant" is subject to interpretation, but I think that a few hundreds dollars a week would be significant. Then, you can tell the parent that the solution would cost you a significant amount of money and you can't provider the care. Only by going through this process would you be in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Just saying "I don't have the staff" is not enough.

I'm very curious.
Does a trial period give a provider a way out? Contract says: "2 week trial period, during which, the parent or provider can cancel at any time"
Would ADA say that's not allowed?

Doesn't matter to me since I'm in Canada and even considering going the route of special needs care, but I'm sure many US providers would be curious about that.

[Blackcat31]

I'm very curious.
Does a trial period give a provider a way out? Contract says: "2 week trial period, during which, the parent or provider can cancel at any time"
Would ADA say that's not allowed?

Doesn't matter to me since I'm in Canada and even considering going the route of special needs care, but I'm sure many US providers would be curious about that.

I’m not sure...

@Tom~ how should providers handle lying or with holding parents and what are the legal options?

[MarinaVanessa]

I'm very curious.
Does a trial period give a provider a way out? Contract says: "2 week trial period, during which, the parent or provider can cancel at any time"
Would ADA say that's not allowed?

Doesn't matter to me since I'm in Canada and even considering going the route of special needs care, but I'm sure many US providers would be curious about that.

Looks like Tom recently wrote an article that covered this and some of the other things that were touched on in this thread. Probably because of this thread.


When Can You Terminate a Child With a Disability?

Can a family child care provider terminate a child if she learns about the child’s disability after the child is enrolled?

Let’s say you interview a parent who doesn’t tell you that her daughter has significant difficulty walking as well as major cognitive learning delays. You learn about this when the child shows up for her first day.

When you talk to the parent about the child’s condition, the parent is in denial. “My child doesn’t have a disability. She just needs to be around other children to improve.”

Americans with Disabilities Act

All family child care providers must comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act. This Act says you cannot discriminate against children with disabilities. It doesn’t mean that you have to care for all children who have a disability.

Instead, you must do what is reasonable to accommodate a child with a disability. A disability is a physical or mental impairment that limits one or more major life activities: learning, walking, talking, seeing, or hearing.

Now What?

At this point you cannot terminate the child, even if you believe you are not capable of caring for her. You cannot terminate even during a two-week trial period that you and the parent agreed to, allowing either party to terminate at the end of the day.

The ADA law says you must treat the child as having a disability if you have reason to believe the child is disabled. In this case, it’s obvious to you that the child does have a disability. So, the fact that the mother says her child does not have a disability doesn’t mean you can terminate her without following the ADA guidelines.

When you believe a child has a disability, you must find out what it would take to provide appropriate care for the child. If what it would take to do this will create a significant difficulty or expense, you don’t have to provide care and you can terminate the child.

Therefore, ask the parent to speak with the child’s doctor to find out what she needs. Or, ask the parent for permission to speak with a local nurse or school that could evaluate the child and give you advice.

If you receive professional advice that says you can provide care by following certain procedures with the child that don’t create a significant difficulty or expense, then you must continue to provide care. But, for example, if you are told you must hire someone that will cost $400 a week to assist you, that’s a significant expense. In that case, you can tell the mother that you can’t afford it and you should terminate. If the mother offers to pay the $400, you must continue to provide care.

If the mother does not give you permission to talk to anyone about her child, then you can terminate care if you believe that the child could not receive the appropriate care she deserves while in your program.

Before and After Enrollment

Before you enroll a child, you cannot ask questions of a parent about any disabilities a child may have. After you enroll the child you can ask, “Does your child have any condition(s) that I should be aware or any special measures I need to take for your child?” Then you can ask for help and explore what the child needs.

The vast majority of family child care providers who care for children with mild disabilities do so without much trouble. If you need help in dealing with more severe disabilities, contact your local Child Care Resource and Referral Agency for help.

Tom Copeland – http://tomcopelandblog.com/when-can-...h-a-disability


littlefriends the suggestion of contacting your local child care and resource and referral agency is a good one. Maybe they can give you a contact of another family child care provider who has been in a similar situation that can give you recommendations.

Maybe asking the mom for a note from the child's pediatrician (not a nurse) saying that the child does not require any special accommodations??? (in case the mom is just saying that she's been to a DR and really has not). Sounds like if she's unwilling to cooperate or is in denial then youcan use that as your out??

[Mike]

If the cost is "significant" you don't have to provide the care. What is "significant" is subject to interpretation, but I think that a few hundreds dollars a week would be significant. Then, you can tell the parent that the solution would cost you a significant amount of money and you can't provider the care.

If what it would take to do this will create a significant difficulty or expense, you don’t have to provide care and you can terminate the child

Significant ???
I don't even do daycare yet and I know it's not a high income business. Many of you care for several children just to make a decent income. If $100/week wasn't considered significant, that's $430/month lost which is a good chunk of money. What if you have 6 children and 3 of them each cost $80/m? That's just over $1000/m and that would shut down any home daycares.

I think it's nice that ADA wants to protect the children, and many of you know me enough to know that I really mean that, but a business is for one purpose, to make money to live off of. I think that in any business, if a client was going to cost you money, it should be your choice if you want that client and/or want to charge them extra to cover the cost. That's not the case though, in other businesses as well. Many legitimate businesses have actually failed due to government regulations.

The problem is, there are 2 ways to look at it.

From the business side, main priority is to make money, so regulations that force a business to do something that could even make them lose money are just plain dumb.

From the other side, if the regulations didn't exist, a lot of people would never be able to get services, or even products, they need.

Just one of the many negatives of self-employment, and why not everyone can do it. Running a business is very intense work, and not the same as a simple 9-5 job. Many businesses don't even make minumum wage.

[MarinaVanessa]

Significant ???
I don't even do daycare yet and I know it's not a high income business. Many of you care for several children just to make a decent income. If $100/week wasn't considered significant, that's $430/month lost which is a good chunk of money. What if you have 6 children and 3 of them each cost $80/m? That's just over $1000/m and that would shut down any home daycares.

I believe that it depends on each provider's circumstance. For example, if a provider had 6 children and was charging $200/week and making $1,200 a week total/$4800 a month then $400 a month would not be considered excessive. If however a provider only had 4 clients and only charged $100/week so made only $400 a week total/$1600 a month then $400 a month would be considered excessive.

Another example is my case ... I had a family contact me for services and their 3-year-old used a wheelchair. The only restroom that is downstairs is not wide enough for a wheelchair to go through and I would have had to spend thousands of dollars to widen the doorway for her wheelchair to fit through. That would be an excessive amount to pay and I could not afford that. The parents reached out to their doctor and got a MUCH smaller wheelchair (tiny actually) and then there was no issue for me.

So it seems as it would all be based on a case by case basis and whether other alternatives are options.

[littlefriends]

Okay so what if this mom is also consistently late picking up? Several times a week she will be 5-15, 20 min after my closing time and give no explanation or even say she’s sorry and a few times has gotten stuck at work and “forgotten” to let me know. Those nights were 30-40 min after I closed. What if I terminated on those grounds, never even mentioning anything to do with disability?

[Rockgirl]

Okay so what if this mom is also consistently late picking up? Several times a week she will be 5-15, 20 min after my closing time and give no explanation or even say she’s sorry and a few times has gotten stuck at work and “forgotten” to let me know. Those nights were 30-40 min after I closed. What if I terminated on those grounds, never even mentioning anything to do with disability?

What does your contract say about late pickups?

[littlefriends]

“Provider reserves the right to terminate care without notice in the event that behavior problems occur and are not being addressed in a timely manner, payments are not being made when due, or providers business hours are not being respected.”

[Rockgirl]

“Provider reserves the right to terminate care without notice in the event that behavior problems occur and are not being addressed in a timely manner, payments are not being made when due, or providers business hours are not being respected.”

I’d think that would have you covered, but you may want to add more specifics for any new families coming in. Have you addressed the issue with dcm yet? Hopefully you’ve documented the late pickups....I’d send a term letter, stating the late pickups as the reason.

[MarinaVanessa]

Okay so what if this mom is also consistently late picking up? Several times a week she will be 5-15, 20 min after my closing time and give no explanation or even say she’s sorry and a few times has gotten stuck at work and “forgotten” to let me know. Those nights were 30-40 min after I closed. What if I terminated on those grounds, never even mentioning anything to do with disability?

Providers often terminate care for being late, I think this could be an out for you. Address it in writing, have the parent sign in acknowledgment that their child needs to be picked up and out of your home no later than their scheduled pickup time and (if in your contract) charge her late pickup fees when they apply. Each time she's late, put it in writing and charge the late fee.

Do you do sign-in sheets? Maybe it's time you did if not. And when she walks in YOU write in the time she walked in and have her sign out. This way you have the time and her signature as proof.

I know that being late 30-40 mins without arranging it with me first id definitely ground for termination if I have already talked to her before.

[Country Kids]

I believe that it depends on each provider's circumstance. For example, if a provider had 6 children and was charging $200/week and making $1,200 a week total/$4800 a month then $400 a month would not be considered excessive. If however a provider only had 4 clients and only charged $100/week so made only $400 a week total/$1600 a month then $400 a month would be considered excessive.

Another example is my case ... I had a family contact me for services and their 3-year-old used a wheelchair. The only restroom that is downstairs is not wide enough for a wheelchair to go through and I would have had to spend thousands of dollars to widen the doorway for her wheelchair to fit through. That would be an excessive amount to pay and I could not afford that. The parents reached out to their doctor and got a MUCH smaller wheelchair (tiny actually) and then there was no issue for me.

So it seems as it would all be based on a case by case basis and whether other alternatives are options.

The $400 might be significant though for that provider as that money maybe earmarked for something else already.

We have bills like anyone else so to add something on top of us that we are maybe not able to afford-even if it seems small might cause us financial hardships.

The other option would be to raise rates to cover something like this.

[MarinaVanessa]

The $400 might be significant though for that provider as that money maybe earmarked for something else already.

We have bills like anyone else so to add something on top of us that we are maybe not able to afford-even if it seems small might cause us financial hardships.

The other option would be to raise rates to cover something like this.

Yes very true. If her income all went towards living expenses then it would also be considered excessive, which is why I mentioned it's on a case by case basis.

Like for me even if I was making the higher amount (and I do charge $200/mo) paying $400 a month would be hard. That's my car payment.

[Ariana]

I would absolutely terminate for being late. It is in your contract, hopefully you have some sort of proof and boom she is gone!

I would not trust anyone who did not bring their child for an interview. She came during her lunch break so she could avoid you seeing her child. What kind of mother does that or puts their child where they are not wanted or able to be taken care of effectively. If she has issues finding care she needs to go to the government for assistance. My nephew was diagnosed with cerebral palsy and my brother gets money to pay for a live out nanny. His needs are too great for a home daycare with one person.

I had a woman show up to an interview without her children and I never contacted her after that. Huge red flag and she mentioned in passing her child was a preemie with a breathing issue...it all made sense why she came without her kids.