Difficulty During Nap Time

[mommyneedsadayoff]

In my state a child would have to be allowed up and moving if they are not sleeping after a half an hour. And the new regs say a child who we know doesn't nap can't be made to lie down at all and there must be an alternate activity. I don't take/keep kids who don't need a nap or have outgrown nap for these reasons. But truthfully if I had a child/situation like the OP's and the parents complained to my licensing, *I* would be in cited.
I do wonder if the OP has any access to a program where napping is not a scheduled activity - maybe a junior K program?

^ this.

I would be cited by licensing. I do a rest period, if after 30 minutes my kids aren't asleep- they MUST be allowed to get UP.

My ONLY solution before pulling is if they would allow him either to go into the K room, OR if they could set him up with quiet activities in the corner after a brief rest period eg. NOT on a mat.

Oh I see! I didn't realize it is against licensing as long as they were given an activity when they don't fall asleep. In that case, I guess I don't get why they would not just put him int he kindergarden room, if they don't require a nap time? It seems like the logical next step if they want to keep the kids and not break regulations.

Hopefully they will move him so you don't have to find other care, Happymom. Sorry this has been so stressful! And of course regulations need to be followed, but I certainly don't feel this is an abusive situation, as you have been made aware and have been trying to work with them. I really don't feel you would keep him in a place if you felt that way, so I think it is just a case of not a good fit. If they can move him into the kindy room, that would probably take care of all of it and be a great learning experience for him, since he starts in the fall. Hopefully, they can make that happen! Good luck Happy mom!:hug:

[Ariana]

I think it is abusive to have a child lying down for that length of time without sleeping. It is abusive. I am not blaming the daycare or the parents but if this was my kid I would be hella concerned that he chewed the collar off his shirt. I am sorry but that sends me a HUGE red flag of abuse. If my child ever came home in that state I would pull them immediately. I would go on assistance before I would allow my child to be in this situation where his anxiety levels were so high he chewed his clothes.

We have no clue what is being said or done to this child at the daycare centre. I have witnessed abuse at daycare centres concerning sleep time and the parents had no clue it was happening. Now this child has anxiety about sleeping?? Something needs to be done but it seems like everyone wants to just try solutions that are just not working and the kid is left in this abusive situation while the adults suss it out.

Sorry but this post made me pretty angry If no one else sees it as abusive thats fine, it is just my opinion but as a mom that would be a huge red flag for me personally.

[Blackcat31]

I kind of have to agree with Ariana here... it sounds like he is suffering some anxiety issues now and they weren't apparent until the issues with napping started happening.

To answer an earlier question you posted Happymom, yes...in my experience I have had kids purposely stay awake if they know they've only got to stay awake a little bit and then get a reward.

I also think your son may very well have just out grown needing a nap. He may need down time/quiet time still as we all do but actually napping may not be what he is needing at this point in his development. My own child slept very little and completely gave up daily naps in the second year of life. I too sleep very little but function like anyone else so sleep needs are definitely individual.

I think abuse is a strong word and I don't know all the details but I DO absolutely feel that a majority of the issues you are having now are direct results of this nap/rest struggle.

I think the teachers really need to spend some time observing him. What are the activities like prior to nap time. Is he excited about something coming up in the day, is he having trouble unwinding from "play" and struggling with the actual transition period...I have a couple kids that need long transition between activities and don't just move from one thing to the next as easily as other kids.

I don't know I am just thinking out loud here but it sounds like the whole situation is getting murky and some behaviors might be directly related to the attempts to fix the issue rather than being directly related to the issue. KWIM?

[Baby Beluga]

Oh I see! I didn't realize it is against licensing as long as they were given an activity when they don't fall asleep. In that case, I guess I don't get why they would not just put him int he kindergarden room, if they don't require a nap time? It seems like the logical next step if they want to keep the kids and not break regulations.

Hopefully they will move him so you don't have to find other care, Happymom. Sorry this has been so stressful! And of course regulations need to be followed, but I certainly don't feel this is an abusive situation, as you have been made aware and have been trying to work with them. I really don't feel you would keep him in a place if you felt that way, so I think it is just a case of not a good fit. If they can move him into the kindy room, that would probably take care of all of it and be a great learning experience for him, since he starts in the fall. Hopefully, they can make that happen! Good luck Happy mom!:hug:

I'm going to guess the center won't move him to the K room because tuition in the K room is likely much greater than in the daycare portion of the building.

I also want to add (and not sure of regulations now) when I worked in a center that had private Kindergarten, the children were still required to lay down. If after 30 minutes they weren't sleeping they could get up and do quiet activities, but the rest period was still required.

Happy mom, I think the best solution would be to do part time at the daycare and pick up before nap time. Maybe there is a local sitter who can do part time afternoon hours? Or perhaps there is a center with different nap policies then this one. Is working half days in the office and the rest at home an option for you or your husband? If so, maybe leave your little guy there for full days and pick up your oldest before nap, take him home get him set up with activities and finish your work from home? Then go pick up your little guy together?

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I think it is abusive to have a child lying down for that length of time without sleeping. It is abusive. I am not blaming the daycare or the parents but if this was my kid I would be hella concerned that he chewed the collar off his shirt. I am sorry but that sends me a HUGE red flag of abuse. If my child ever came home in that state I would pull them immediately. I would go on assistance before I would allow my child to be in this situation where his anxiety levels were so high he chewed his clothes.

We have no clue what is being said or done to this child at the daycare centre. I have witnessed abuse at daycare centres concerning sleep time and the parents had no clue it was happening. Now this child has anxiety about sleeping?? Something needs to be done but it seems like everyone wants to just try solutions that are just not working and the kid is left in this abusive situation while the adults suss it out.

Sorry but this post made me pretty angry If no one else sees it as abusive thats fine, it is just my opinion but as a mom that would be a huge red flag for me personally.

I totally understand! And I agree that it is just not working. The main reason I don't want to throw out the "abuse" word is because Happymom seems to be aware of what is going on and I she seems like a very proactive mother, so I feel like she wouldn't keep them there if it felt wrong, kwim? I thought that as long as they had an activity, they could hang out and quietly do it, but I agree that if he is being made to lay on a mat and not do anything for 2 hours, that is not right. The battle has led to stress and anxiety for all involved, which is not healthy, so I hope they can work something out. And on the same note, if Happymom feels it is an abusive situation, I really hope she finds new care for both children and makes it aware to licensing that they are violating rest time regulations. A full day prek or a sitter/nanny may be the best option.

[happymom]

Thank you for your responses!

I don't find it to be abusive. If he weren't being disruptive to the sleeping children, there wouldn't be a problem. The audio books were taken away because he would pretend to listen to them. As soon as the teacher looked the other way he'd take off the headphones and run across the room and try to be sneaky, tap his friends, purposefully try to keep them awake.

I agree that he has outgrown nap time. The ONLY thing daycare says stopping them from moving him is getting permission from licensing.

The rates for the K room and the pre-k are the same, (daycare center does not teach kindergarten, but they transport to morning and afternoon K at local public schools). Rates won't go down again for him until he starts 1st grade.

I'm sending an email to the owner today to see if I can expedite things with her, right now everything is going through the director as a middle man, and then her.

Yesterday he came home with a good report, hopefully he does today as well. He is extremely smart but also is showing obsessive compulsive tendencies. He's a really good boy though. At home he has no problem sitting and doing a quiet activity for a few hours at a time. He loves play doh, making patterns with his wood blocks, beading, art/coloring/painting. Activities are limited if he's on his mat, but if he could move to a table, he has a very long attention span.

I'll keep you guys updated. When he was almost 4.5 and had outgrown the 3s room I tried very hard to get him moved to the 4s room early and was unsuccessful.

[happymom]

My letter

Hi Owner/Director,

I've been working with my son, Teacher and Director on a problem we have been having during nap time. I think we are at a point where it is not going to get better.

My son outgrew naps some time ago, he will turn 5 in March. I know many children his age are still napping, but he is having a hard time being forced to stay on his mat for 2 hours, 5 days a week. That's a very long time for a little person. We have been working on this issue very diligently since September. Kevin earns privileges at home if he takes a nap.

He is now having a lot of anxiety surrounding nap time, I think it perpetuates him to act out during rest period. Several days he has come home from Center having chewed on the neckline to his shirt, ruining it. We have tried several things: I sent audio books for him to listen to, but Teacher took it away when he continually got up off his mat when she wasn't looking at him. My son continued fooling around and attempting to keep his friends awake to the point that Teacer had to separate him to a corner and block his view of the other kids with a shelf. He has been sent to the 3s room (as punishment) as well as the front office because he continues to misbehave during nap.

I need another option for him. While I would love it if he napped and I continue to support Center's schedule and rest period, this is no longer working for him. I talked to Teacher and Director about possibly moving him in with the kindergartners during the rest period. They told me this needs to be approved by you and licensing. We can not do another eight months of this. If I can't find a solution soon, I'm going to have to find alternative care for him. From my perspective, he does not need naps offered anymore.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter. I would really hope he can be exempt from naps starting on Monday if possible.

Thank you

Please let me know if you think it sounds too mean/unwilling to work with them.

[happymom]

**edited some things to include limited outdoor play this time of year, and remove the ultimatum of finding alternative care.

This letter has been sent as of now =) so no need to provide suggestions! Thanks

[Alwaysgreener]

I think it is abusive to have a child lying down for that length of time without sleeping. It is abusive. I am not blaming the daycare or the parents but if this was my kid I would be hella concerned that he chewed the collar off his shirt. I am sorry but that sends me a HUGE red flag of abuse. If my child ever came home in that state I would pull them immediately. I would go on assistance before I would allow my child to be in this situation where his anxiety levels were so high he chewed his clothes.

We have no clue what is being said or done to this child at the daycare centre. I have witnessed abuse at daycare centres concerning sleep time and the parents had no clue it was happening. Now this child has anxiety about sleeping?? Something needs to be done but it seems like everyone wants to just try solutions that are just not working and the kid is left in this abusive situation while the adults suss it out.

Sorry but this post made me pretty angry If no one else sees it as abusive thats fine, it is just my opinion but as a mom that would be a huge red flag for me personally.

Yes, I agree with you, this is a form of abuse. There is a fine line with abuse and I find that most do not see it until it gets out of hand. I did not consider it until you point it out. Thank you for opening my eyes on this.

[daycarediva]

I agree with the letter. Good job, and good luck! How many older children are at the center? I find it hard to believe that he is the only one not napping, kwim? Maybe they need to allow him to rest for a bit, and then have a quiet room set up for non nappers to be supervised.

[happymom]

His class is about 10 kids. These are all children who will be starting kindergarten in August, the layout has the 3s and the 4s room connected by a large opening (no doors) and there are about 10 kids in that room, too.

Right now there is no place for non-nappers to go during nap time. Staff has expressed to me that they wish there was.

I'm not sure how many SAs there are in the center, but I'd say at least 15. The center at capacity is 100 kids.

I received an email response over the weekend saying she will consider my request, look at ratios and will be working on this. Fingers crossed she can accommodate.

[happymom]

Update:

Today he was able to move to be with the kindergartners. The assistant director just came in and got him as if he were being picked up to go home, and took him in with the bigger kids to rest with them instead.

They have more options in there, most of those children don't sleep (although they are still given the option of a cot/mat if they want to).

The director called me today to discuss. Saying she is worried if other students/parents learn she is doing this for my son...they will expect it, too.

[daycarediva]

Update:

Today he was able to move to be with the kindergartners. The assistant director just came in and got him as if he were being picked up to go home, and took him in with the bigger kids to rest with them instead.

They have more options in there, most of those children don't sleep (although they are still given the option of a cot/mat if they want to).

The director called me today to discuss. Saying she is worried if other students/parents learn she is doing this for my son...they will expect it, too.

She needs to re-examine her rest time policy for older children, IMHO. If there are other children not resting- they should be allowed to get off of their mat after a short time to play or do quiet activities. It's not appropriate for a child to lay awake and do nothing for 2 hours/day/5 days a week.

[happymom]

She needs to re-examine her rest time policy for older children, IMHO. If there are other children not resting- they should be allowed to get off of their mat after a short time to play or do quiet activities. It's not appropriate for a child to lay awake and do nothing for 2 hours/day/5 days a week.

I think you are right. I'll continue working on it with the center =)