Pennsylvania DPW

[Unregistered]

Well I am going to assume you were shut down because you were running AN UNLICENSED ILLEGAL DAYCARE. and of course instead of going through the proper procedures such as GETTING LICENSED in the state you are in, and meeting all the proper requirements, you would much rather ILLEGALLY restart the day care at someone elses home to avoid getting caught doing so again. I am so tried of these people that throw a day care together, most of the time get paid CASH to avoid paying taxes, while I bust my hump everyday to pay my taxes and put up with daycare children WHICH ARE ALL AROUND ME because I have one particular daycare near me that is..you guessed it, ILLEGALLY RAN. this person throws the kids outside ALL DAY while the older ones (all ages ranging from 2 to 12) watch the younger ones, this piece of garbage welfare boogin gets paid by her clients so the older kids can do all the work while the neighborhood puts up with kids running everywhere unsupervised by an adult, she is one person and normally has up to 15 kids there at her house, and expects the neighborhood to put up with it, well guess what? this is one neighbor that said NO, and I REPORTED HER. Not only because shes a piece of garbage but because, if only the parents knew what she was doing with those kids during the day which was NOTHING, several were almost hit by cars on I cant even count how many occasions and this idiot blames the driver!! HELLO THE STREET ISNT THE PLAYGROUND FOR YOUR DAYCARE...........MORON. so you see, this is who these laws protect.......THE CHILDREN!!! and if you arent doing what you are supposed to, and you GOT CAUGHT then do the right thing and get your license and make sure you ABIDE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS in order to keep the kids safe and SO YOU CAN REPORT YOUR INCOME!!!!!

[thatdivalady]

Hmmm

This is a touchy subject for me, but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in anyway. First off, I have 2 degrees in the social services field and a Social Work License. I have 10+ years of working in the field. That being said, I agree that if you operate illegally, you are definitely taking a chance. But can we please keep in mind that unlicensed does not always mean illegal? In PA, I am allowed to have 3 children without a license.

Governmental officials is a touchy subject to me because some folks know that I was starting a center based daycare and was told everything was fine until I asked for a certificate of occupancy for daycare and was told that there were eleventy billion things that needed to be done first. Funny, because I've been in lots of daycare centers and there were not many at all who appeared to comply with the International Building Codes. Apparently, you can get grandfathered in... So let me get this straight... it's okay for ABC Daycare to do business in a building that does not meet the requirements but it is not okay for me? No safety issues, just compliant bathrooms for INFANTS and TODDLERS who will not be using the bathrooms anyway... Water fountains, doors that swing to the outside, child sized toilets and sinks... approximately $100,000+ in work? If one center has to comply to the IBC then all should have to.

Now, what do parents do when they cannot find daycare that will operate according to the hours that they need? And people wonder why parents leave their children at home.

Listen, at the end of the day, I am happier knowing that parents sent their children to SOMEONE to watch them. And as long as they weren't abused, neglected, etc. does it harm anyone? Case in point, I sent my daughter to an unlicensed woman because I TRUSTED her.

Oh and last year in PA:

1. A licensed center based daycare had a baby who suffered third degree burns from Drano being spilled into their diaper...
2. A licensed center based daycare was just in the news for the male staff who was molesting the children...
3. A licensed center based daycare had a carbon monoxide leak (I thought you had to have detectors?) and injured 13 people...
4. The licensed in home provider that was down the street from my daughter's provider had fleas, an incredibly dirty and disorganized house, and was yelling and screaming at two of the children so loud that I swore if she was watching my child I would have to contain myself from not needing bail money!

So whoever posted above and said that a license does not mean that the provider is more trustworthy or safe than an unlicensed provider was absolutely correct.

*end rant*

[MarinaVanessa]

People on both sides of the issue make valid points, children can become hurt or abused in either circumstances, however I think that we have to also remember that licensed child care providers are required to report incidents such as accidents and incidents. Licence-exempt (legally running child care with no license), unlicensed (illegally operating child care) and parents do not.

Of course the data is going to show that a majority of the injuries whether they are major or minor happen in licensed child care, no one else is required to report these incidents. If a parent takes their child to the park and their child falls and breaks their arm, their child is taken to the hospital, casted and then sent on their way. If I go to that same park and the child breaks their arm, I have to inform the parent, inform licensing and make a report about the incident which is then logged and used for data and informational purposes. Licensing may possibly come for a surpeise inspection to ensure that I am supervising the children and not neglecting etc. None of which is required of someone else.

Personally I think it's unfair to use the statistical data that's out there about how many children get hurt in licensed child care (including centers) vs the data that is out there about incidents that happen in licence-exempt or unlicensed child care ... in home life for that matter ... simply because the comparison information is not correct. If everyone was required to report all incidents (including parents) then the information would be correct. The only data that we do have is what licensed child cares are required to provide and the really serious incidents of abuse, neglect or negligence in unlicensed, license-exempt and home life that gets reported because Child Protective Services or law enforcement has to step in. Just my 2 cents.

[Unregistered]

Licensing Reply to Seashell

Seashell you apperantly do not have a good system. PA does yearly announced inspections and 1 unannounced a year. We are checked often for health and safety issues. AND YES PA is FREE to license your daycare. They make sure fire extinquishers are up to date each year as well as fire drills and 12-15 hours of child care trainings each year. Licenseing makes sure your providers stay current and up to date with many issues. It is not fair to run an unlicensed daycare and undercut centers who are keeping up with standards and it is illegal.

[Blackcat31]

Seashell you apperantly do not have a good system. PA does yearly announced inspections and 1 unannounced a year. We are checked often for health and safety issues. AND YES PA is FREE to license your daycare. They make sure fire extinquishers are up to date each year as well as fire drills and 12-15 hours of child care trainings each year. Licenseing makes sure your providers stay current and up to date with many issues. It is not fair to run an unlicensed daycare and undercut centers who are keeping up with standards and it is illegal.

Seashell last posted in this thread in 2009. Licensure is also NOT the only way to be current and up to date. Being unlicensed is also perfectly legal in many states.

I know many quality programs/providers who are legally unlicensed.

[Hazel]

without disclosing my exact location for privacy purposes, i am in the north central part. i have gotten a few of my children back, but 6 doesn't compare to 17. my husband and adult son are home with me all day and we have many fun activities for the kids. they missed the pool this summer!

Whoooaaaaa! You had 17 kids? Am I reading that right!? No wonder you were turned in! In PA you can ONLY have 3 kids that are unrelated to you without a license! And related ONLY means kids or grand kids! Not nieces, not nephews, not cousins...
WITH a license you can only have up to 6!!!!
I am unlicensed in PA bc when I was a director of a center in the city, the regulation was 5 kids without a license. After I opened my FDC I found out they lowered it to 3 so I looked into getting a license and found out I had to close during the process which could take up to 3 months! As a single mom of a new baby, I couldn't do that! So I raised my prices and only take 3 kids (usually friends ask for after school care and I accept since our kids are friends, but Its only every now and then, so no biggie).
The parents I have are ok with the higher prices bc I have a very small group and one even said its more like a "nanny share" situation.
I would never take 17 kids! Ever! How the heck can you possibly handle that? God bless you for your patience! But that's not safe at all! Sorry! And I amanne of the few people that doesn't completely agree with licensing. I feel parents are the best judge and don't feel the states regulations always make sense. Like some states saying little babies can't be in a pack and play while awake.. Sorry, there is no way I can carry a baby around ALL day and still give quality one on one care to my other 2 kids. And laying them on a blanket on the floor is NOT safe when you have other kids playing there.
I tell ALL my parents that I am unlicensed and that I feel they are the best judge of my care and my setup. I have tons of references they can call and even suggest a morning visit to see how we do things here BEFORE they enroll!
My insurance agent knows what I do and has me covered with a $1,000,000 umbrella policy attached to my overly protected homeowners policy. I don't take the kids in my car, so no worries there! But seriously, if you were turned in once, it WILL happen again

[Meeko]

This is an old thread........

[SilverSabre25]

THREE year old thread, guys!!

[LK5kids]

I am a fully licensed provider. My state has two levels of licensing. Residential certificate at a lesser level and fully licensed at a higher level. I am fully licensed and it is not hard. Some of the regs bug me as being pointless..... (After 20+ years of child care and four kids of my own, I despise going to training classes that teach me how to diaper a baby).....But many of the rules and requirements are for the kids and that's what it's all about.

I personally believe that if you are running your day care the way it should be and keeping safety etc a major concern...then there is no reason not to be licensed.

Please do not take this wrong...I know that many of you are not licensed and run wonderful caring home day cares. But there are many out there who would not pass an inspection and the parents only care that it's cheap.

The state is trying to stop the homes where one women will try and care for 25 kids by herself and in conditions you shouldn't keep animals. My own licensor has been to LICENSED homes to do un-announced visits and found horrific things. She came to my home in tears one day after having been to a home where she found a 3 yr old duct taped to a pipe in a laundry room because he had mis-behaved. Who knows what the so-called provider would have done if she knew she wasn't ever going to be inspected. She lost her license and the kids in her "care" are safer now. Imagine if the provider had been un-licensed and knew there was no chance of an inspection?

The state is not perfect. They have many rules that don't really work well for those of us who actually DO child care.....There is waaaay too much paperwork involved.......they don't come often enough to catch a lot of the bad stuff....and too often for those of us who know we are doing a good job and hate the interruptions........but I believe that things would be horrible if child care was suddenly off radar. "Day cares" would pop up all over with kids being taken to women who are not equipped to take are of them.

I think in a perfect world that the PARENTS should be the ones who best know what the best day care is for their kids. But lets get real. We have ALL had kids in our care who's parents are pretty much a waste of space and the kids are just lucky to be in a safe enviroment with us. Those same parents wouldn't bat an eye in taking their kids to a day care down the street that was dirty and overcrowded if it meant saving some money. Sad...but it's a reality.

The state is trying to stop that from happening and to keep day care as good as it can.

Sorry to be so long-winded! Believe me, the state child-care leaders of this state know my name. I am not backward when it comes to telling them that some of their regulations are just plain stupid......but I know they are trying to keep the KIDS safe and not just make MY life easier. So we put up with each other!!

Agree wholeheartedly! My state inspects every year with more possible. The state I am in requires very strict standards. Kids in my town are no longer cared for with a ratio of 12/1. Things are so improved. The state has every right to require quality FCC centers and stick their nose in when it comes to children's care.

[daycarediva]

The whole point is, after initial inspection, the state doesn't ever do this again unless a complaint is filed. The items you listed are important, but situations change. My fire extinquisher could expire a month later. The dog needs shots every year . . . etc. There is no follow up with the state! Maybe other states are different in their practices, but I still believe it's the parents responsibility, not the state. Child care is too personal to leave to a stranger.

I do not want to get into a debate, but I am a licensed provider and the state is here every 2-3 months. The last time they were here it was for over an hour. I think it may vary by state, region, and heck even licensar but that isn't an accurate description of the state visits from my area.

If they leave me with deficiencies (once had to move things 6" further from my furnace) I have ten days to mail it back with how I changed it, and you bet your butt they were here to enforce it/follow up.

[Unregistered]

Seashell...wrong on sooo many points!

Lets start with a simple 1 first. Bars serving minors not only get fined, they also loose their liquor license which costs in excess of $100K!!! So its not back to business as usual like you claim!!!

I also know many people with a Masters in Early Childhood Education. Not a single 1 of them has yet to be a parent! Like you, just a bunch of self proclaimed Bearers of ALL Wisdom & Knowledge! And sorry seashell, but the overwhelming majority of unlicensed providers dont have a Masters or any training in Early Childhood Education. Most do their CPR & 1st Aid and thats it. As if that should automatically qualify them! Dont believe me? Scroll thru Craigslist some time!

From CL...I once emailed a loving mother who said I could trust her 100% with my children in her post. She listed everything possible except for the fact she wasnt licensed. (theyre really easy to pick out) When I emailed her calling her out on her lack of a license, this loving mother responded with the most profanity laced email thats ever been written. Right down to calling me an f'ing c*nt!!! And physically threatening me! So much for your unlicensed Mother Teresas!!!

Parents already cant afford Childcare so your weekly inspection idea is mute! And as for costs, I see plenty of posts here where unlicensed providers are whining & crying about having to pay a stinking $120 to get thru the process. Chump change that will be made back off the tuition of 1 child in less than 1 week! In business theres a saying..."it takes money to make money!" The problem with you & the others is that you dont want to put a dime into your business! A reflection on how good of a provider you ARENT!!!

In addition to money is time. Time required to jump thru the hoops. If youre not willing to spend a stinking 8 hours in a required seminar to obtain a license, how much time should I expect you to spend insuring the health, safety, welfare and education of my child?

And how do you justify your BS excuses for not being licensed? You put it squarely on the responsible, observing parents! Somehow its their fault that their child tripped and knocked their teeth out while in YOUR care!!!

Haha! You would consider being licensed if a system were put in place that actually worked? You mean a system that meets ALL of YOUR requirements right seashell?! How about jail for endangering the health, safety & welfare of a child by an unlicensed provider seashell...would that do it for you? Sounds like a system that would work well!

Sorry seashell...in spite of all your self proclaimed righteous accomplishments, you are nothing more than an over glorified babysitter! Quit playing "the victim" and take responsibilty for your actions/inactions and quit blaming every one else!!!

btw...those 12 year old unqualified, untrained babysitters get $15ph per kid. Sharp contrast to the licensed, trained, educated child care provider who averages $2 stinking dollars per hour! Maybe thats your drive and motive huh seashell?!

30+ years in the industry and did my time in law school seashell!!! Go talk your BS to your mirror!

[Cat Herder]

Go talk your BS to your mirror!

You are ranting at a 9 year old post. Seashell has not been here for a couple years.

[Unregistered]

Cat

I realize and fully understand that! That doesnt mean 1st time readers like me dont come here everyday looking for advice!!! Its for "their" benefit that I respond! Not seashells!!! Get it?!

[Blackcat31]

I realize and fully understand that! That doesnt mean 1st time readers like me dont come here everyday looking for advice!!! Its for "their" benefit that I respond! Not seashells!!! Get it?!

Yikes? Why the hostility?

I am willing to wager that Cat Herder "gets it" but I have to wonder if you do?

I just don't see the need for so much anger :confused:

In the real world there's a saying.... "happiness is found within"

[Cat Herder]

Thank you BC :hug:

I felt she was just as angry as I am about illegal providers in my town getting away with it while I struggle to meet absurd "Quality Improvements" and deal with non-stop micromanagement. The problem is the State lacks resources to police them so only focuses on us to get their own financial needs filled (Race to the Top).

I do get it. We all do.

I just keep reporting. Again. And again. And again. It annoys the State, costs them money, makes mountains of paper work for them and that makes me happy. Imagine how quickly they would set up an investigation system if the complaints cost them more money than they get from policing us?

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