Pennsylvania DPW

[Unregistered]

I'm desparately hoping someone can help me. Until this past week, I ran a successful daycare out of my home. I had no shortage of clients and the money was paying our mortgage and other household expenses. My husband is disabled and cant work. Someone called the state and told them I had an illegal daycare and a man showed up and ordered me to send the children home and I was shut down the next day. We relied on the income to support ourselves and i want to know if anyone knows a way I can appeal this decision. can i run my daycare out of a friend's home? does anyone know if PA does follow up inspections? has anyone else had a run in with pennsylvania and can offer advice on what we do next?

[Chickenhauler]

I know little about PA's rules (OK, zilch) but I'm going to bet money that you're now on their "watch" list.

I'd talk with your county about what it would take to get the ball rolling ASAP to become licensed, then this issue will go away. Would it be possible for them to "fast track" considering the situation?

Tell them your two options are: Get licensed so you can work and earn a living, pay taxes, or they can show you where you need to sign up for welfare and food stamps so you can survive.

[Unregistered]

I would just bring the kids back and file for a license. And don't open your door anymore! It's sad that the state has to stick their nose in everyones business. Child care is between the parent and the provider. The state is just looking to pad their wallets.

[seashell]

Im sorry this happened to you. I agree, just bring the kids back and dont open your door. Apply for a license if you have to. The state should just mind their own damn business. It's between parents and providers. End of story. I had a licensed center and they showed up maybe once every 2 years? They are supposed to make sure the enviroment is safe once every 2 years? The parents are in and out everyday. They are smart enough to make their own decisions about the enviroment their children are in. The parents know what's going on, the state is clueless.

I dont have a license now and I am careful not to give out my address or answer my door when I am not expecting company. It's none of their business what I do in my home. If the parents had a concern about the way I care for their kids, then they would leave or call DCF.

Good luck Please keep us posted.

[mac60]

im sorry this happened to you. I agree, just bring the kids back and dont open your door. Apply for a license if you have to. The state should just mind their own damn business. It's between parents and providers. End of story. I had a licensed center and they showed up maybe once every 2 years? They are supposed to make sure the enviroment is safe once every 2 years? The parents are in and out everyday. They are smart enough to make their own decisions about the enviroment their children are in. The parents know what's going on, the state is clueless.

I dont have a license now and i am careful not to give out my address or answer my door when i am not expecting company. It's none of their business what i do in my home. If the parents had a concern about the way i care for their kids, then they would leave or call dcf.

Good luck please keep us posted.

very well said and i totally agree! What more/greater inspection than parents coming into our home 2 times each day times how ever many familes you care for.......gosh that certainly should be enough.

[Unregistered]

I don't suggest that!

If someone called you in once, they will probably do it again. I agree that the state should not have to be involved with your private business. If the parents are happy with you and the care you provide, things should continue as usual. However, that is not reality. You have to follow the rules in your State. If licensing is reqired, you must abide by the law, like it or not. If you are caught again, you may not have the option to run a legal childcare business. You mentioned running the childcare in a friends home...If that is an option for the short term, mabe you could watch the kids there on the hush hush so you wont lose income while you go through the licensing process for your home. Then you will be legit and wont have to worry about a knock on the door. Dont think you can just watch the kids in your house and not open the door if they come again. That is rediculous. It might have worked the first time, but now they know what you are doing. They can call the police department to enforce the law.

[[email protected]]

this link may help

https://www.daycare.com/pennsylvania/

[Unregistered]

Surprised

I'm surprised by some of the responses here! Anyone who thinks the state has no business regulating a daycare has no business running one. States regulate and license all sorts of businesses, as they should, and any business caring for small, helpless children whose parents are not there to monitor the care warrant more, not less, oversight than the local coffee shop. If you really understand and care properly for children and can provide facilities and services that pass muster with the state, then go for the license.

[mac60]

Just as you could state 10 reasons why everyone should be licensed, I am sure unlicensed providers could state 10 reasons why they should not have to be. It is just a personal opinion--both ways. Ultimately in the end.....it should be the parents opinion that counts. As they are the ones going into the home/center 2 or more times per day and it is their child. Seashell stated it quite well.

And to say that--I quote "Anyone who thinks the state has no business regulating a daycare has no business running one." is quite a harsh statement to unlicensed providers because you don't know them nor do you know what kind of program they offer and use. Being licensed is just a piece of paper that took a lot of bs to get. There are good and bad in both licensed and unlicensed.

[seashell]

Licensing is a joke

I'm surprised by some of the responses here! Anyone who thinks the state has no business regulating a daycare has no business running one. States regulate and license all sorts of businesses, as they should, and any business caring for small, helpless children whose parents are not there to monitor the care warrant more, not less, oversight than the local coffee shop. If you really understand and care properly for children and can provide facilities and services that pass muster with the state, then go for the license.

This is a long standing debate on this board and we all need to respectfully agree to disagree. However, assumptions are being made by the pro - license group that non-licensed providers are uneducated and poor quality.

I am an unlicensed provider. I also hold a Masters in Early Childhood Education. I serve as educational consultant to several area licensed centers and I was the director of a large (licensed ) center for over 10 years. I have over 20 years in the field. You will find that this is true for many ( not all) unlicensed providers. I know a great many unlicensed caregivers in my area. We are not child abusers. We are not child molesters. We are not out to beat the system. Our children are well cared for, well educated and loved. We know that the licensing system does not work and we do not put faith in the licensing body.

During my time as a licensed provider (about 10 years) my program had contact with licensing twice. Once during initial inspection and once when a parent complained because her child had chicken pox. Consider, 2 visits in 10 years. Do you honestly believe that an accurate assessment of the program can be made in a few hours over the course of 10 years? A license gives parents a false sense of security. They let their guards down and believe that if the program is licensed, it is safe. I belong to a group that believes that it is the parents responsibility to observe the program at drop off and pick up. I have said this before. Parents are in the center twice a day. Licensing? I am sure there are places that are inspected more often than mine was, but honestly, do you think an occasional visit can truly assess the quality of the program? It is an expense to the program and ultimately the parents, that do not provide protection or safety. It is very easy for a provider to meet the minimum standards to obtain a license. But how often are those standards upheld once the license is obtained? Perhaps if the government took to weekly visits to the program. In this case, the cost to the tax payers, the parents, the center would create a weekly tution bill parents simply could not afford. So what’s the answer?

Simply put, the licensing system does not work. What does work? What is the answer? I am sure there are many ideas on this board, but for me, it’s responsible and observing parents. As a child, you were asked to stop, look and listen when you crossed the street. It should be the same when you drop off and pick up your child. Pay attention! If you are not happy, speak up or leave. DCF is there to deal with those people who do not treat children kindly. Licensing does nothing to ensure quality care. It is a myth. If a system was devised that actually worked, I might consider becoming licensed. But would it really matter? The providers on this board are here because we care about children. We do our very best to protect and offer them a healthy and loving enviroment. Would a license change that? No. There are good and bad in both the licensed and unlicensed population. There was a center in our town that was terrible. The kids watched TV all day, they never went outside, the teachers sat in the corners and gossiped while the kids ran wild. The were constantly over ratio and understaffed. They were investigated time and time again and nothing happened. They were slapped on the wrist and business continued as usual. They paid a fine for being over ratio, but they made more money than they paid out from having extra kids, so what’s the incentive for not continuing the practice? It’s like bars who serve under age kids. They make more serving the kids then they pay in fines. Maybe they get caught, maybe they don’t. But they still come out ahead and may even raise rates to cover the cost of the fine.

Let me explain the inspection process in CT. ABC daycare is accused of running an unsanitary program, lets say improper diaper changing. The state visits. They tour the center and make a list of items that need to be changed. They observe the providers changing diapers (Yes, they do it perfectly because they are being watched) They leave the list with the center who may or may not correct the issues. The center then submit’s a corrective action report describing the changes. The state never visits again to ensure those changes have been made. The case is closed. Lets look at something bigger, a parent says their child is being abused.

The state brings DCF on the investigation. DCF investigates the charges, talks to the parents, observes teacher / child interaction. Licensing? They look for minor infractions and leave the list with the center that will be responded to with a written corrective action report that is filed away and never followed up on. DCF handles the abuse portion of the case and licensing has nothing to do with it. If the complaint is verified? The teacher is fired and it’s business as usual. If nothing is found? It’s still business as usual. It is very rare that a program loses it’s license and if they do, it’s usually because DCF says so, not licensing.

So what’s the solution if licensing doesn’t work? Responsible parenting! Pay attention and use your instincts! If it doesn’t feel right, leave and tell your friends. Licensing won’t do anything. So back to why some of us don’t choose to become licensed? I personally believe parent’s are smart enough to make their own decisions, inspect the program on a daily basis and be in tune to their children. I also won’t rip them off by having to charge them more so that I can offer them a piece of paper called a license. Child care is personal thing, between a parent and a provider. That sums it up for me. Agree or disagree, but respect my opinion and don’t assume I do not offer a quality program because I am smart enough to know that the licensing system is a joke.

[mac60]

Thank you seashell. That was extremely well said and I appreciate the time and thought you put into posting it.

[Lily]

Well said. People need to take the time to get educated on the subject before they jump to conclusions and pass judgement on others.

[Michael]

Food for thought and well written.

[Unregistered]

I am just wondering how the state pads their pockets? The license is free. They even give you your orientation class free. But they do check for unhealthy conditions in daycares. The state sets a minimum standard for day cares, and if you are in Key Stone Stars the standards go up from there, to help improve the daycare available in Pa and to help educate the providers. Sorry that so many are so against the states part in daycare.

[Former Teacher]

Yippy!

This is a long standing debate on this board and we all need to respectfully agree to disagree. However, assumptions are being made by the pro - license group that non-licensed providers are uneducated and poor quality.

I am an unlicensed provider. I also hold a Masters in Early Childhood Education. I serve as educational consultant to several area licensed centers and I was the director of a large (licensed ) center for over 10 years. I have over 20 years in the field. You will find that this is true for many ( not all) unlicensed providers. I know a great many unlicensed caregivers in my area. We are not child abusers. We are not child molesters. We are not out to beat the system. Our children are well cared for, well educated and loved. We know that the licensing system does not work and we do not put faith in the licensing body.

During my time as a licensed provider (about 10 years) my program had contact with licensing twice. Once during initial inspection and once when a parent complained because her child had chicken pox. Consider, 2 visits in 10 years. Do you honestly believe that an accurate assessment of the program can be made in a few hours over the course of 10 years? A license gives parents a false sense of security. They let their guards down and believe that if the program is licensed, it is safe. I belong to a group that believes that it is the parents responsibility to observe the program at drop off and pick up. I have said this before. Parents are in the center twice a day. Licensing? I am sure there are places that are inspected more often than mine was, but honestly, do you think an occasional visit can truly assess the quality of the program? It is an expense to the program and ultimately the parents, that do not provide protection or safety. It is very easy for a provider to meet the minimum standards to obtain a license. But how often are those standards upheld once the license is obtained? Perhaps if the government took to weekly visits to the program. In this case, the cost to the tax payers, the parents, the center would create a weekly tution bill parents simply could not afford. So what’s the answer?

Simply put, the licensing system does not work. What does work? What is the answer? I am sure there are many ideas on this board, but for me, it’s responsible and observing parents. As a child, you were asked to stop, look and listen when you crossed the street. It should be the same when you drop off and pick up your child. Pay attention! If you are not happy, speak up or leave. DCF is there to deal with those people who do not treat children kindly. Licensing does nothing to ensure quality care. It is a myth. If a system was devised that actually worked, I might consider becoming licensed. But would it really matter? The providers on this board are here because we care about children. We do our very best to protect and offer them a healthy and loving enviroment. Would a license change that? No. There are good and bad in both the licensed and unlicensed population. There was a center in our town that was terrible. The kids watched TV all day, they never went outside, the teachers sat in the corners and gossiped while the kids ran wild. The were constantly over ratio and understaffed. They were investigated time and time again and nothing happened. They were slapped on the wrist and business continued as usual. They paid a fine for being over ratio, but they made more money than they paid out from having extra kids, so what’s the incentive for not continuing the practice? It’s like bars who serve under age kids. They make more serving the kids then they pay in fines. Maybe they get caught, maybe they don’t. But they still come out ahead and may even raise rates to cover the cost of the fine.

Let me explain the inspection process in CT. ABC daycare is accused of running an unsanitary program, lets say improper diaper changing. The state visits. They tour the center and make a list of items that need to be changed. They observe the providers changing diapers (Yes, they do it perfectly because they are being watched) They leave the list with the center who may or may not correct the issues. The center then submit’s a corrective action report describing the changes. The state never visits again to ensure those changes have been made. The case is closed. Lets look at something bigger, a parent says their child is being abused.

The state brings DCF on the investigation. DCF investigates the charges, talks to the parents, observes teacher / child interaction. Licensing? They look for minor infractions and leave the list with the center that will be responded to with a written corrective action report that is filed away and never followed up on. DCF handles the abuse portion of the case and licensing has nothing to do with it. If the complaint is verified? The teacher is fired and it’s business as usual. If nothing is found? It’s still business as usual. It is very rare that a program loses it’s license and if they do, it’s usually because DCF says so, not licensing.

So what’s the solution if licensing doesn’t work? Responsible parenting! Pay attention and use your instincts! If it doesn’t feel right, leave and tell your friends. Licensing won’t do anything. So back to why some of us don’t choose to become licensed? I personally believe parent’s are smart enough to make their own decisions, inspect the program on a daily basis and be in tune to their children. I also won’t rip them off by having to charge them more so that I can offer them a piece of paper called a license. Child care is personal thing, between a parent and a provider. That sums it up for me. Agree or disagree, but respect my opinion and don’t assume I do not offer a quality program because I am smart enough to know that the licensing system is a joke.

Thank you Seashell! Finally another provider who agrees with me that licensing is nothing but a joke. I believe licensing, esp. TX licensing are a bunch of hypocrites.

It is quite funny and sad at the same time when I read up on my former center. There is a website to look up violations (I don't know if all centers do that) but now they have a system to rate their "standards". TX licensing name some of the stupidest standards as high (such as an ACTIVITIY plan not being posted) to low (e.r. card not filled out, which I would think is more important )

Anyway I am pleased to see that I am not the only who thinks the same!

P.S. To to the poster about how the license is free. I am sorry but in TX you must pay for your license. The last time I checked it is a standard fee plus so many dollars per child that you are licensed for. That is how they pad their pockets.