Whats Your Policy For Closing, Days Off, Vacation Rate Etc..??

[Angelwings36]

I am on a food program and actually MAKE money on the meals I feed my daycare children.

I also get to deduct every single household expense I have under the sun on my taxes...not limited to electricity, heating expenses, the mortgage, house repairs, improvements and maintenance, the gas I put in my vehicle, my telephone and internet expenses, my furniture, the gas I put into my lawn mower, my lawn mower itself etc etc etc etc etc........(we have a well so water isn't an expense for us but it would be tax deductible if it were)....my daycare parents receive none of those perks.

It more than evens out in my favor but I'm not sure how things work in Canada.

The way you speak leads me to believe you are incredibly resentful of the work you do and the parents that work outside of the home. I would not hold any job that made me feel that way. No one is saying you should feel bad charging the way you do, but it seems like even with that as your incentive you still don't at all feel that things are in your favor or even remotely fair.


I make far less than $3.11/hour/child but using that number - US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. If you don't think some parents dishing out nearly HALF of their income just for child care is expensive.....could you make ends meet if you only brought home a whopping grand total of $4.14 an hour (even less when you figure they have to put gas in the tank to get there, additional vehicle maintenance, have a work wardrobe to maintain etc.). I know I couldn't....

Willow, I have been following this thread since the day that it was originally posted and I have seen through out the entire thread that you have gotten defensive towards any provider that feels that they are entitled to paid holidays and have time and time again defended yourself, whether or not a provider was specifically referring to you, on your own beliefs. On post #59 you made it very clear that you have plenty of money to pay your bills, contribute to your savings, your children’s savings, your 401K and have money left over for fun. You stated you own your own vehicles, you own a beautiful newer home, live on 48 acres in the country with 3 ponds, 9 pets (including a horse that eats like the saying goes) and you have loads of toys. You are in a great financial situation if all of the above is true. However, not all the providers on this site come close to being in the financial situation that you are in. I am 27 years old and we will not own our own home until January 2013 and the house that we are buying is a 1967 house. Although the home has been totally renovated and is well taken care of, it is not anywhere close to a new home. Yet the home will still cost us 1/3rd of a million dollars to mortgage. Our house will sit on a teeny tiny little lot in the city verses the acres that your home sits on. We own one vehicle that is paid for but it’s a small truck so we will have to go for a second auto loan next year as our family will be expanding in July. We have enough money to pay our bills and have just started contributing to a retirement fund, although we have no savings for our children yet.

I am not on a food program so all the food that I buy for the daycare comes out of my own pocket or essentially the fees that I am paid to care for the children. And yes I can deduct every single household expense on my income tax but in the end I still end up paying in taxes to the government which also comes out of the fees I am paid to watch children, where as most families that bring their children to me to care for will get money back on their taxes even though they paid less in their house hold expenses.

I am on my feet for 9.5 hours a day, lifting, bending and crawling about. I deal with mental stress on a regular basis from parent’s who think that they should be the one’s that run the show. I have these children for more hours in their first five years of their lives then their parents ever do and most of my parents will not bat an eye to take a day off of work and still bring their children to me. My body and my mind take a large toll within my career. If you feel that this truth makes me seem resentful then that is your opinion and you can keep it. This is just simply how it is for me.

Do you think that if I didn’t enjoy being surrounded by little children that I would continue to run my daycare business year after year? Do I have to enjoy and agree with every area of my career in order to not be resentful? Do you never have a problem with your business, with a parent? It’s true I would not continue to run a daycare if my income was unstable but that doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy spending my time with my daycare children. In the end I am like the rest of the population and I have to pay my bills too. It should not make me a bad person to state that I should be entitled to a stable pay check in order to support my family as this is something I feel that I deserve. The points that I made above regarding the price of daycare where points made to support my decision in charging for paid holidays. I don’t expect you to understand that as it’s clear that you are very set in your ways and that no one else’s opinion are relevant if they don’t fall in line with yours.

Also Willow, it is true that families that are only making minimum wage would have a hard time paying for daycare, but I guess then families should be deciding if they can "afford" children prior to having them.

[Willow]

I don’t expect you to understand that as it’s clear that you are very set in your ways and that no one else’s opinion are relevant if they don’t fall in line with yours.

Show me where I ever once said anything offensive about your choice and I'll show you 10 where someone said something offensive about mine.

Also Willow, it is true that families that are only making minimum wage would have a hard time paying for daycare, but I guess then families should be deciding if they can "afford" children prior to having them.

That's an incredibly offensive statement.....but I'll run with it.

An exact parallel one could argue - if I can't afford to run my business without charging for services I'm not providing then should I be running it at all?

I am on my feet for 9.5 hours a day, lifting, bending and crawling about. I deal with mental stress on a regular basis from parent’s who think that they should be the one’s that run the show. I have these children for more hours in their first five years of their lives then their parents ever do and most of my parents will not bat an eye to take a day off of work and still bring their children to me. My body and my mind take a large toll within my career. If you feel that this truth makes me seem resentful then that is your opinion and you can keep it. This is just simply how it is for me.

Perspective is the key here.

There are providers who would look at what they do and describe it just as you did in your above.

Then there are providers who would look at it and describe it like this:

I am blessed to have gotten the opportunity to work from home thereby affording my own children the opportunity to have their mother home 10 hours a day instead of having to work outside of the home and away from them those 10 hours. The mental and physical stresses of my job remind me I am ALIVE and I am thankful to God for that blessing each and every day. My daycare parents sometimes need guidance that I usually am able to assist them with and that makes me feel capable and talented. Unfortunately not every parent is cut out to stay at home, and sometimes circumstances don't even allow it....FORTUNATELY though, I am blessed enough to give all the kids in my care, the kids I grow to love, a safe, enriching and fun place to spend that time. I know they are lucky to have me and my home.

I choose to describe my career, my purpose in life, the latter way. And if I heard someone describing it as you did I am going to assume they're not very happy.

It is my opinion that providers who can pick out the good over focusing on the bad won't burn out nearly as fast or suffer in the meantime.

My husband I'd venture to say works much much harder than I do but would never describe his job as such because he loves it. If he didn't, if I didn't, then I could definitely see expecting to be compensated more.


I hope that clarifies where I was coming from with my comment.

Do you think that if I didn’t enjoy being surrounded by little children that I would continue to run my daycare business year after year? Do I have to enjoy and agree with every area of my career in order to not be resentful? Do you never have a problem with your business, with a parent?

Maybe - lots of people stick with jobs they're unhappy with for many reasons.

No - but if you don't enjoy and agree with *most* of them then I'd say that's likely true. You haven't said one positive thing about what you do, which is why you've given that impression.

Yes - all the time! I don't think it's possible to run a business and work with people and NOT hit blips sometimes! But that would never be my focus. If that's all I could talk about in regards to what I do then I'd change it pronto. Life is too short to feel like you're getting the short end of the stick.

I like the phrase "If you don't like where you are then change it. You are not a tree." It got me through my divorce due to alcoholism and subsequent domestic abuse at the age of 27 and losing my house all while trying to care for my two kids on my own. I've been at the bottom and even then I stuck by my beliefs. Even then I remained optimistic and never would have described my job the way you do. Even when faced with the crummiest parents. I take a deep breath, and change my perspective. It can offer an amazing uplift to your life if you can

[Blackcat31]

I think it is awesome that everyone is "discussing" their opions and choices as the whole point to this thread was hearing and finding out about other providers policies for taking time off.

However, I do think this thread has taken a turn and is becoming much more than the OP probably intended.

I am NOT aiming this at anyone in particular but I think that anyone who has already answered or responded to the OP should probably leave it at that and not let the thread get taken in another direction.

I kind of feel as though it is on the verge of personal attacks and I really hate to see providers do that when we all can agree that we are the bosses, owners and decision makers within our own businesses and it IS ok to agree to disagree.

There is NO one right or wrong way to do this. We all approach, implement and apply the ideas, ethics, morals and policies that we see fit intoour programs and that is fantastic that we live in a country that allows us to do so.

I just think "it might be time to stop poking the dog" as my grandma used to say.

[Angelwings36]

The question I was answering, Willow, was what I do about my vacation and do I take it paid or not and why? I explained to the OP my decision for taking my vacations as paid. You explained to the OP your decision for taking your vacations unpaid and why. Our opinions didn’t match, don’t have to match and that is fine.

Show me where I ever once said anything offensive about your choice and I'll show you 10 where someone said something offensive about mine.

This is what you said to me regarding my choice:
The way you speak leads me to believe you are incredibly resentful of the work you do and the parents that work outside of the home.

Willow, you made this statement in regards to the reasons why I chose to have paid holidays within my business, which was the choice I was trying to defend. I don’t care for you to make a point of showing me 10 statements that someone said something offensive to you about your choice, I just want you to specifically respect mine even though it may be different then yours and not try to break it apart and make it look like it’s an awful choice.

I made the following comment:
Also Willow, it is true that families that are only making minimum wage would have a hard time paying for daycare, but I guess then families should be deciding if they can "afford" children prior to having them.

To which you responded;

an incredibly offensive statement.....but I'll run with it.

An exact parallel one could argue - if I can't afford to run my business without charging for services I'm not providing then should I be running it at all?

Why was my statement incredibly offensive? Do you agree that two unemployed individuals should have a child and then sit on welfare? How is this much different then having a child in a situation where they can not afford to provide all the needs for that child? I understands that some families have unexpected pregnancies when they are not ready for them but those that don’t should be preparing for a family, which also means insuring they have the finances to support a family unit.

I don’t charge for services within my business I charge for slots billed on a monthly basis. My business is based on space availability and not my own availability so your argument would not apply to me.

Perspective is the key here.

There are providers who would look at what they do and describe it just as you did in your above.

Then there are providers who would look at it and describe it like this:

I am blessed to have gotten the opportunity to work from home thereby affording my own children the opportunity to have their mother home 10 hours a day instead of having to work outside of the home and away from them those 10 hours. The mental and physical stresses of my job remind me I am ALIVE and I am thankful to God for that blessing each and every day. My daycare parents sometimes need guidance that I usually am able to assist them with and that makes me feel capable and talented. Unfortunately not every parent is cut out to stay at home, and sometimes circumstances don't even allow it....FORTUNATELY though, I am blessed enough to give all the kids in my care, the kids I grow to love, a safe, enriching and fun place to spend that time. I know they are lucky to have me and my home.

I choose to describe my career, my purpose in life, the latter way. And if I heard someone describing it as you did I am going to assume they're not very happy.

It is my opinion that providers who can pick out the good over focusing on the bad won't burn out nearly as fast or suffer in the meantime.

My husband I'd venture to say works much much harder than I do but would never describe his job as such because he loves it. If he didn't, if I didn't, then I could definitely see expecting to be compensated more.

I like to think that I am a provider that would describe what I do in both the way I did in my last posts and in the way you did here. Just because I use one description one time and the opposite description another time doesn’t mean I can not pick out the good over focusing on the bad. I used the description I did, which you would consider a negative description to better explain my choice to charge for holidays. You used the description you did, which you would consider a positive description to better explain your choice to not charge for holidays. Neither description is wrong or inaccurate.

Maybe - lots of people stick with jobs they're unhappy with for many reasons.

haven't said one positive thing about what you do, which is why you've given that impression.

I made it pretty clear that I enjoy spending time with my daycare children, which would be one positive thing about what I do.

Let’s just agree to disagree.

[thatdivalady]

That being said i dont feel convicted by charging for paid time off because from a bussiness point of view childcare is a service just like cable or a gym membership or rent or even health care insurrance or car insurance you may not use these service technically all the time but you sure will have a service bill every month faithfully. Even when a storm come and knocks your power out you still will receive a undiscounted electricity bill. You can take a summer vacation but you will still have to pay your rent un discounted. I have yet to see any one cutting off any of those services to nickle and dime the exact amount of serviced used.

Just playing devil's advocate here *smile* But when my cable shorts out I receive a credit on my bill. Same thing with some of the other services you mentioned. If THEY are unable to provide the service they do give a credit. Your insurances are always available so I'm not sure that fits in with unavailability. If I take a summer vacation, my regular house is still available. You may or may not use them but they are still available. When I leave my daycare to go on vacation and do not have coverage, my services are not available. I don't charge my families for this during those times.

Someone mentioned a line in my previous post about me not being able to stomach charging when I am unavailable. It doesn't imply that I feel like I'm cheating the family but I do serve single mothers who do not have anyone available to watch their children if I or my staff are off. So yes, THEY would have to pay double -- my rate and another provider's rate if I did charge them for vacations. Having been in that position myself, I will not do it to someone else. But that's my option and a perk to owning my own business, right?

Keep in mind that my rates are high and again... I used Tom Copeland's method of charging higher rates year round to compensate for my vacation. Now I will end with the fact that I see both sides, I have previously chosen mine and I'm quite happy there. More power to everyone for running their business they way THEY see fit!

[littlemissmuffet]

I just learned that the US is one of (if not THE) only countries that does not require employers to provide employees with a minimim amount of paid days off in a year. This is completely and utterly ridiculous to me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country

The legal minimum require leave per year for Canada is "Minimum 10 working days depending on province and tenure of employment. In addition, 5–10 public holidays depending on province." And US is "None.Certain employers, including those with 50 or more employees in a locale and public sector employers, must give up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave for personal or family illness, or for the birth or placement of a child."

Most of the other countries have a legal minimum of providing 20-30 paid days off per year!

[SunshineMama]

I just learned that the US is one of (if not THE) only countries that does not require employers to provide employees with a minimim amount of paid days off in a year. This is completely and utterly ridiculous to me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country

The legal minimum require leave per year for Canada is "Minimum 10 working days depending on province and tenure of employment. In addition, 5–10 public holidays depending on province." And US is "None.Certain employers, including those with 50 or more employees in a locale and public sector employers, must give up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave for personal or family illness, or for the birth or placement of a child."

Most of the other countries have a legal minimum of providing 20-30 paid days off per year!

It's crazy! In the US, workers are overworked and underpaid. It is no wonder that even though we are a developed nation, we have such high illnesses and the family structure is falling apart. Humans were not put on earth for the sole purpose of working.

[littlemissmuffet]

It's crazy! In the US, workers are overworked and underpaid. It is no wonder that even though we are a developed nation, we have such high illnesses and the family structure is falling apart. Humans were not put on earth for the sole purpose of working.

Absolutely! I'm actually quite upset about this and am having a hard time believing this! How can one of the wealthiestcountires in the world treat their people like this?

[Country Kids]

I just learned that the US is one of (if not THE) only countries that does not require employers to provide employees with a minimim amount of paid days off in a year. This is completely and utterly ridiculous to me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statutory_minimum_employment_leave_by_country

The legal minimum require leave per year for Canada is "Minimum 10 working days depending on province and tenure of employment. In addition, 5–10 public holidays depending on province." And US is "None.Certain employers, including those with 50 or more employees in a locale and public sector employers, must give up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave for personal or family illness, or for the birth or placement of a child."

Most of the other countries have a legal minimum of providing 20-30 paid days off per year!

Wait-everyone gets that off in Canada (retails, restaurants, things like that) also?

Remember we also only get 6 weeks maternity leave (unpaid) so alot of people will save vacations and such so that they can get some sort of pay during that time.

I worked in the outside work force for about 10 years and never took a vacation. I think the place I worked the longest 5-6 years offered paid vacatons but we were only closed 2 holidays (Thanksgiving/Christmas).

So are you surprised because now knowing alot of our parents don't probably have the time off like you thought or just surprised over all?

[Angelwings36]

Starting off with the basics, every province in Canada entitles an employee to vacation time after working for 12 consecutive months of employment. The amount of time off an employer must grant their employees is two weeks in every province apart from Saskatchewan (which offers 3 weeks) and Quebec (which offers one day per month).

In Saskatchewan, where I am from, after 10 years of employment employees get 4 weeks of paid vacation. My dad actually get 6 weeks of paid vacation at his job but it under a union and he has been there for 40 years.

Perhaps this is why I have no issue requesting paid holidays for myself.

It's so different through out the world.

We also get a full year of paid mat leave in Canada and it's rare that a child is accepted into daycare before 12 months because of this. Some places (especially centers) will not accept children into care until they are 18 months of age.

[Blackcat31]

Wait-everyone gets that off in Canada (retails, restaurants, things like that) also?

Remember we also only get 6 weeks maternity leave (unpaid) so alot of people will save vacations and such so that they can get some sort of pay during that time.

I worked in the outside work force for about 10 years and never took a vacation. I think the place I worked the longest 5-6 years offered paid vacatons but we were only closed 2 holidays (Thanksgiving/Christmas).

So are you surprised because now knowing alot of our parents don't probably have the time off like you thought or just surprised over all?

NOT everyone gets ONLY 6 weeks maternity leave. Many of my daycare parents have had much much more (both paid and unpaid) and a few have had NONE at all or couldn't afford to take any time off......it all depends on what type of job they have and where they work.

Saying "alot of our parents" is making a blanket statement about what ALL daycare families do or don't do, have or don't have. It may apply to YOUR daycare families but it isn't applicable to everyone's families.

I can say that a good majority of MY daycare parents over the last 20 years have had paid time off, paid vacations and a great plan for maternity leave when necessary.

My policies and rules reflect the situations my families are in or have. I think this whole topic got bent out of shape because of the blanket statements and assumption that everyone, everywhere had the same situations.

For me, personally, I have never worked a job that didn't offer some type of paid time off or some accumulation of vacation time.

In the U.S., the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) mandates up to 12 weeks of (potentially unpaid) job-protected leave, including parental leave, for many American workers. Subnational laws also vary; for example the U.S. state of California does mandate paid family leave, including parental leave for same-sex partners.

[Willow]

Perhaps considering the vast differences now some of you can understand why it's not as cut and dry for American's.....many of whom are NOT entitled to all of those holidays off and paid....or a bunch of vacation time off and paid.....or maternity leave off and paid.....

Many many people receive NONE of those benefits.

[Country Kids]

NOT everyone gets ONLY 6 weeks maternity leave. Many of my daycare parents have had much much more (both paid and unpaid) and a few have had NONE at all or couldn't afford to take any time off......it all depends on what type of job they have and where they work.

Saying "alot of our parents" is making a blanket statement about what ALL daycare families do or don't do, have or don't have. It may apply to YOUR daycare families but it isn't applicable to everyone's families.

I can say that a good majority of MY daycare parents over the last 20 years have had paid time off, paid vacations and a great plan for maternity leave when necessary.

My policies and rules reflect the situations my families are in or have. I think this whole topic got bent out of shape because of the blanket statements and assumption that everyone, everywhere had the same situations.

For me, personally, I have never worked a job that didn't offer some type of paid time off or some accumulation of vacation time.

In the U.S., the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) mandates up to 12 weeks of (potentially unpaid) job-protected leave, including parental leave, for many American workers. Subnational laws also vary; for example the U.S. state of California does mandate paid family leave, including parental leave for same-sex partners.

Your second paragraph and last contridict each other. If there is the FMLA, why would your parents not be able to take time off? By law with the FMLA a employer can't say they can't take the time off. In fact, a employer shouldn't even be taking a woman back until the dr. releases them back to work after having a baby.

I'm done arguing the points here. My part of the country must be totally messed up because every time I post something, I'm bitten with something back on how that not how it is, my parents this/that/Value your business/I have never had that problem/etc. I don't think I'm contributing anything for others as no matter what I post, it doesn't seem correct.

What I write is from what I know, experienced personally and with parents. I have had four children (one with maternity leave-8 weeks unpaid), have a husband that has worked for a major corporation/state government and also many parents who have worked retail to government jobs. It varies widely what people receive for time off/paid or unpaid. No matter though, because I feel not matter how long this thread goes on, there will always be two sides. One side larger then the other but it will always be a divided, heated debate.

[Blackcat31]

Your second paragraph and last contritict each other. If there is the FMLA, why would your parents not be able to take time off? By law with the FMLA a employer can't say they can't take the time off. In fact, a employer shouldn't even be taking a woman back until the dr. releases them back to work after having a baby. .

Because the one mom I had could NOT afford to take any time off. She had her baby on Thursday night and went back to work on Monday. She had no time off accumulated. The FMLA allows people who can afford it to take time off without fear of losing their jobs.

I know that the general consenses says that women should be able to stay home for 6 weeks, but I don't think there is a law saying that they have to or that they should. The daycare mom I am talking about had her doctor sign off that she could go back so it wasn't up to her employer.

I'm done arguing the points here. My part of the country must be totally messed up because every time I post something, I'm bitten with something back on how that not how it is, my parents this/that/Value your business/I have never had that problem/etc. I don't think I'm contributing anything for others as no matter what I post, it doesn't seem correct. .

Your comments have a lot of value...you just need to word them as your own situation or your own experiences. I commented because you posted using the words "ALL" and "our" as if you were speaking for everyone.

Your part of the country isn't messed up....just different than mine. Yours might be the same as a million other places, but not the same as some others.

What I write is from what I know, experienced personally and with parents. I have had four children (one with maternity leave-8 weeks unpaid), have a husband that has worked for a major corporation/state government and also many parents who have worked retail to government jobs. It varies widely what people receive for time off/paid or unpaid. No matter though, because I feel not matter how long this thread goes on, there will always be two sides. One side larger then the other but it will always be a divided, heated debate.

Yes, this will always be a debatable topic because everyone is different. I only responded to your post because of your wording. You said "ALL our parents" as if you were speaking for everyone, so I wanted to clarify that I was not in that category.

I was speaking from MY perspective and not saying anything about anyone else's situation....that was really what I was getting at.

The heated discussions and debates stem from blanket statements...which several providers pointed out.

Your second paragraph, where you speak from your personal perspective is not at all disagreeable as you are speaking from YOUR experiences.

That leaves little room for deabte or rebuttal.

[Country Kids]

NOT everyone gets ONLY 6 weeks maternity leave. Many of my daycare parents have had much much more (both paid and unpaid) and a few have had NONE at all or couldn't afford to take any time off......it all depends on what type of job they have and where they work.

Saying "alot of our parents" is making a blanket statement about what ALL daycare families do or don't do, have or don't have. It may apply to YOUR daycare families but it isn't applicable to everyone's families.

I can say that a good majority of MY daycare parents over the last 20 years have had paid time off, paid vacations and a great plan for maternity leave when necessary.

My policies and rules reflect the situations my families are in or have. I think this whole topic got bent out of shape because of the blanket statements and assumption that everyone, everywhere had the same situations.

For me, personally, I have never worked a job that didn't offer some type of paid time off or some accumulation of vacation time.

In the U.S., the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) mandates up to 12 weeks of (potentially unpaid) job-protected leave, including parental leave, for many American workers. Subnational laws also vary; for example the U.S. state of California does mandate paid family leave, including parental leave for same-sex partners.

Saying "alot of parents" is a blanket statement is not making a blanket statement about ALL daycare parents. I said "ALOT" not "ALL"-big difference.

I've know many people over my life time so when I'm writing I'm not always writing aboiut childcare parents.

You said that I was using the words "all" and "our" as blankets statements. I didn't use the word all in the last two posts I think your talking about and I don't know how using "our" is a blanket statment when you read how I wrote it. Sorry, I guess I'm not a versed on the English language as I should be.