Whats Your Policy For Closing, Days Off, Vacation Rate Etc..??

[Country Kids]

That is how PAID vacation works... you are being PAID to not be at work.
someone is paying you... the company you work for is paying you NOT TO BE AT WORK....
And in many cases... that company has to pay SOMEONE ELSE to do your job.... so .. in that instance.. that company is basically DOUBLE PAYING..
paying you to be off work.. and... paying someone else to do your job....



Tammy-From working in a few companies that have offered paid vacations the boss is not out any additional money when paying people for time off.

Example-I take a vacation

Employee x covers my position while I'm off. Usually covering my position while still doing their work.

Employer-Still paying me (for paid vacation) and employee x is still making the same wage. They don't get their wage plus mine, so boss isn't out any additional pay.

Child care:

I take a vacation with pay.

Back up person-Now making additional money to watch child.

Parents-Paying me my portion to be on vacation and paying back up person.

Result:In one week parents are paying double for childcare.

[Blackcat31]

Child care:

I take a vacation with pay.

Back up person-Now making additional money to watch child.

Parents-Paying me my portion to be on vacation and paying back up person.

Result:In one week parents are paying double for childcare.

As Tammy pointed out, you are making a generalization and assumming ALL families are paying someone to watch their child while you are off.

NOT all families have to pay someone to care for their child when their child care is closed.

None of my current DCF's double pay anyone. They all have family and/or friends available to watch their child while I am closed. If they didn't then I suppose they would have chosen a provider who didnt charge for time off since they would have to double pay.

That is the beauty of finding and choosing a situation that works for you.

If I had trouble getting clients due to my vacation/holiday charges then I would absolutely change my policies. But charging for provider vacation and holidays is normal around here so providers charge and parents pay.

I think this is a topic that NOT all providers are going to agree on so agreeing to disagree is probaby best considering not all areas and communities do things in the same manner. Knowing your community and it's needs are key to being a successful business owner.

Explaining and re-explaining how companies pay out double or don't pay out double is a moot point.

Providers should do what works for their business. (I don't give two hoots what any other company does or doesn't do)

Parents have a responsibility to choose a provider who has policies they can live with and manage financially.

Providers have a responsibilty to meet the needs of the community and offer the type of service that "sells" or they wouldn't be in business long.

Bottom line is do what works for YOU. There is NO right or wrong way.

[Country Kids]

As Tammy pointed out, you are making a generalization and assumming ALL families are paying someone to watch their child while you are off.

NOT all families have to pay someone to care for their child when their child care is closed.

None of my current DCF's double pay anyone. They all have family and/or friends available to watch their child while I am closed. If they didn't then I suppose they would have chosen a provider who didnt charge for time off since they would have to double pay.

That is the beauty of finding and choosing a situation that works for you.

If I had trouble getting clients due to my vacation/holiday charges then I would absolutely change my policies. But charging for provider vacation and holidays is normal around here so providers charge and parents pay.

I think this is a topic that NOT all providers are going to agree on so agreeing to disagree is probaby best considering not all areas and communities do things in the same manner. Knowing your community and it's needs are key to being a successful business owner.

Explaining and re-explaining how companies pay out double or don't pay out double is a moot point.

Providers should do what works for their business. (I don't give two hoots what any other company does or doesn't do)

Parents have a responsibility to choose a provider who has policies they can live with and manage financially.

Providers have a responsibilty to meet the needs of the community and offer the type of service that "sells" or they wouldn't be in business long.

Bottom line is do what works for YOU. There is NO right or wrong way.

I was just stating that when a company has someone on vacation they aren't "double" paying, being out additional money. I was quoting something Tammy had said in her post.

I didn't say this was the way for all families either. Never mentioned that at all in my post. Just said parents pay double for two providers. Some people do have parents that double pay, we can't generalize either it that all parents have families/friends watch their children.

For my own families they all stay home with their children if I'm sick/vacation or personal days. I finally have someone that can come in and help for personal day so I don't take that off anymore, saving my families some of their time. I don't worry about them not having backups but I do know how hard it is to find someone to watch your children when everyone works that you know.

I'm not upset with anyone that charges for their time off and never tried to make it an arguement. I was simply stating how I did it to the op and then it seemed to take off. The people that do charge seemed to get angry with the ones that didn't charge. I've just tried to explain it from how my business has successfully ran for 17 years. I hav changed it so much from when I first started it would make your head spin, but taking time off is one thing I have never changed. Why fix it if it isn't broke?

A few of the post really upset me but I didn't say anything and still biting my tongue as those are those posters feelings but to generalize things that way was very hurtful. It made me feel I wasn't playing in the big league and didn't know how to run my business. I do know though I run a great business, have wonderful families, a great reputation, and get referral calls all the time from my clients.

So I'm leaving this thread know and going to enjoy a wonderful day with family/friends and wind down an awesome 4 day weekend (2 days which were unpaid).

[Blackcat31]

I was just stating that when a company has someone on vacation they aren't "double" paying, being out additional money. I was quoting something Tammy had said in her post.

But companies ARE paying double. They are paying BOTH the employee who is off AND the employee who is covering for them.

I didn't say this was the way for all families either. Never mentioned that at all in my post. Just said parents pay double for two providers. Some people do have parents that double pay, we can't generalize either it that all parents have families/friends watch their children.

No, we can't generalize in either direction, which is why I stated several times that EACH provider needs to do what works for them.

I personally, have families that do not have to double pay.

For my own families they all stay home with their children if I'm sick/vacation or personal days. I finally have someone that can come in and help for personal day so I don't take that off anymore, saving my families some of their time. I don't worry about them not having backups but I do know how hard it is to find someone to watch your children when everyone works that you know.

I am glad you have found a solution that works for BOTH you and for your families. As I said, that is the key to finding what is right.

I'm not upset with anyone that charges for their time off and never tried to make it an arguement. I was simply stating how I did it to the op and then it seemed to take off. The people that do charge seemed to get angry with the ones that didn't charge. I've just tried to explain it from how my business has successfully ran for 17 years. I hav changed it so much from when I first started it would make your head spin, but taking time off is one thing I have never changed. Why fix it if it isn't broke?

I hope you didn't take my post as being upset with you as I was not.
I also hope you are not lumping me into those providers you feel are angry with those who don't charge for their time off. I support ALL providers in how they do things, so long as it makes them happy and works for them.

I also don't feel as though charging for time off or not charging is a matter of being broken or not. It is more of what works in your community and what the current needs of your clients are. If it isn't the norm in your area to be paid for your time off, then it isn't going to be well received by potential clients.

A few of the post really upset me but I didn't say anything and still biting my tongue as those are those posters feelings but to generalize things that way was very hurtful. It made me feel I wasn't playing in the big league and didn't know how to run my business. I do know though I run a great business, have wonderful families, a great reputation, and get referral calls all the time from my clients.

One of the biggest hurdles to cross or accept when participating in a public forum is to take what YOU feel applies to you and leave the rest. I don't think it is even possible for posts to be made that will please everyone or that ALL members will agree with.

I also think that if your feelings were hurt by a comment someone else made, then you need to look at why. Why would someone else's thoughts and opinion make you feel as though you aren't "playing in the big league"? :confused:

If you have had a successful and profitable business for over 17 years then you should definitely have learned along the way that EVERY provider does things differently and they are in NO setting the bar for others. If you have been successful for 17 years then that alone should speak volumes about you and your program.

17 years says YOU ARE SUCESSFUL and ARE doing things right!!

Having that kind of experience behind me has enabled me to feel as though I am "playing in the big leagues" since I have managed to stay successful for so many years. Your years of service should give you the same in return.

One (or a few other) opinions should in no way make you second guess your policies or practices.

So I'm leaving this thread know and going to enjoy a wonderful day with family/friends and wind down an awesome 4 day weekend (2 days which were unpaid).

I am also enjoying the end of a long wonderful weekend of which 2 of my 4 days off were also unpaid. My DD heads back to college in a couple hours and I have a mountain of laundry to tackle too!

Here's to long weekends and time with family and friends!

[Texasjeepgirl]

Thank you Black Cat... I really appreciate your posts....

To any of you that I offended or irritated with my post or follow up post.. Please know I am sorry if the way I worded something caused irritation.

I by NO MEANS think I am playing in some 'league above any other provider' .. nor do I intend on implying that by the manner in which I describe my opinion.

The original post was a question...
Why charge.. or why not charge.


I live in a relatively small town....
I am a HOME PROVIDER...
I stated in my posts.. I only began charging for my own vacation in 2010... I've been in business for over 20 years...
I recap several stories in my BACKBONE thread as well as the article.. that I have learned, evolved, and changed my policies in my daycare over the years...

Most of what I have changed in my own daycare is based on things I've read on this and similar forums...

[momofboys]

I want to comment on the double paying of employees. It simply isn't the case in some situations. At my husband's work if someone is off work that person's work just gets divided by other employees who are already being paid, it is not as if they a paying extra or hiring someone new, and they definitely don't pay extra simply b/c an employee has to pick up a few extra duties for a few days

[Country Kids]

I want to comment on the double paying of employees. It simply isn't the case in some situations. At my husband's work if someone is off work that person's work just gets divided by other employees who are already being paid, it is not as if they a paying extra or hiring someone new, and they definitely don't pay extra simply b/c an employee has to pick up a few extra duties for a few days

I know I said I wouldn't comment anymore but.........

Momofboys-I have explained this about 2-3 times and no one seems to understand this!

Thank you for rewording it because I'm was wondering if maybe I wasn't explaining well. The boss isn't out anymore money as a parent would be. The only place I think that they bring in extra people and have to pay out more is when a teacher is off and they have to bring in a sub. There could be more but this is what I'm thinking of right of the top of my head.

What you wrote is probably how the majority of companies work. I know that is how it is at my husbands work and all my parents works.

OK, maybe I can keep quiet now.

[littlemissmuffet]

I know I said I wouldn't comment anymore but.........

Momofboys-I have explained this about 2-3 times and no one seems to understand this!

Thank you for rewording it because I'm was wondering if maybe I wasn't explaining well. The boss isn't out anymore money as a parent would be. The only place I think that they bring in extra people and have to pay out more is when a teacher is off and they have to bring in a sub. There could be more but this is what I'm thinking of right of the top of my head.

What you wrote is probably how the majority of companies work. I know that is how it is at my husbands work and all my parents works.

OK, maybe I can keep quiet now.

Yes, this is assuming that a parent actually pays another provider to watch their children while their usual provider is on vacation. And to be honest, the more I talk to parents AND providers (not just where I live but all across Canada and the US) I really don't think that the majority of parents do double pay - I think the majority take paid time off themselves or have free backups (family/friends). I know SOME do, but I absolutely don't think it's as common as many here make it out to be.

I also disagree that the only place that would bring in extra staff to cover someone on vacation is a school. I have a friend who used to work at a temp agency and she was called in to many different companies to cover people on vacation, sick leave and parental leaves. To cover vacations she was called into work at a variety of retail stores (sales and cashier), call centers, cleaning companies, hotels (front desk and housekeeping) and rental agencies to name a few.

I'm just grateful that I don't have to have this discussion with parents - they all agree to pay my vacations, and I've even had a few suggest I take THREE paid weeks. This shows me they appreciate and value the care I provide - and it's their way of caring for me right back

[countrymom]

I don't charge for days off or vacation or sick time. Where I LIVE just isn't feesable to do this. Also, I find that by not charging for sick time, I rarely have sick kids here in my care.

[Crystal]

Can someone tell me how the parents handle paying you (the provider) and also someone else when you take a vacation? If my fulltime parents that pay me $140 a week had to pay me that $140 while I'm on vacation and also pay someone else $140 for the same week would probably break some of them. I know alot of time my families take the same time off that I do because I give them my schedule in January, but there are some days that they don't. How can they afford to pay double for vacations?

Don't know if you have been answered, as I didn't read the rest of the posts yet.....

My parents are given 6 months notice of vacation time (schedule for the entire year given in January, vacation is always in July) and they ALL take the week off. They also all have the same holidays off that I take off. I take four additional days off during the year and give at least two months notice and they take the day off or have a grandparent care for the children. I don't take sick days unexpectedly (3 times in 16 years, so not never, but not usually either).

IF I had a parent who HAD to pay someone when I vacationed, AND that parent had always been good about following policies and didn't take ALL of her days off for herself (ie. without a GOOD reason) I would meet her halfway and charge half.

[Unregistered]

It bussiness

i don't charge for any of my days off, holiday or not.

Why? Because my parents raised me to believe you get paid for the work you do.

To me that's not giving parents free days. Often times parents need to find alternate care for my days off if they are still scheduled to work, so they should have to pay two providers that day if that's the case simply because i'm not available?i don't believe so. And if they have the day off i'm still doing nothing for their family and they may or may not be getting paid themselves....but i should still feel good about pulling money out of their pockets regardless? I'm sorry, but i just don't.

There are many professions, particularly for those who are self employed, that do not get paid for holidays or time off. In my heart and mind (and not meaning to offend anyone who has come to different conclusions) it is not some sort of inherent right to require payment for services not provided...in any profession.

I believe the cost of living for the masses would greatly decrease if everyone could get on board with that belief.

That said, if you chose to require it, that is entirely your business. You need to decide for you what you feel is fair. At the end of the day you need to be able to close shop and feel like what you're doing is benefiting is you and your family, you need to feel good about the way you run your daycare.

That gut feeling, is the only one that should matter.

i respect your point of view and understand you dont want to feel convicted about getting paid for leave. That being said i dont feel convicted by charging for paid time off because from a bussiness point of view childcare is a service just like cable or a gym membership or rent or even health care insurrance or car insurance you may not use these service technically all the time but you sure will have a service bill every month faithfully. Even when a storm come and knocks your power out you still will receive a undiscounted electricity bill. You can take a summer vacation but you will still have to pay your rent un discounted. I have yet to see any one cutting off any of those services to nickle and dime the exact amount of serviced used. In a way the slot we sell for our child care service is simulare to an insurance policy. A agreement that under certian terms and conditions you will recieve childcare. If a insurance company relize it is not in there best interest to cover every car accident of their policy holders or refund the money paid for each month you don’t get in a accident and even create regulations in their contracts so that they can realistically provide a service with out going bankrupt why shouldnt we. It bussiness and as small bussiness owner we are more vonerable then a corperation if big bussiness think its wise then surely we cant afford to run our bussiness like that. What happen when the un expected happens for example: A death in the family, your own sick child ect life is to unpridictable to have your money unpredictable too. Why put your self in position where if something where to happen you got to decide can afford to loose the money over it we have overhead cost to think about and family responsibilty so if a crisis does arise at lease give yor self one less thing to worry about. Its good you have so much compassion for your clients and their interest im pretty sure that is one of the reasons why they choose you but there are many ways to show your apreciation and compassion for them besides shorting your self.

[Angelwings36]

I take three weeks of PAID vacation per year, 5 paid personal days that I can use for any reason and all stat holidays (I’m in Canada) at full pay. Last year was the first year that I took 3 weeks of paid vacation. In 2010 and 2009 I took two weeks of vacation at 50% pay and prior to that I didn’t take any paid vacation. I decided last year that I would start taking paid vacation to stabilize my income giving myself the means to take time off and be able to afford it. I do not give families any free childcare days. Families pay for the space here and not the services and I make that very clear in my interviews. I do not get paid benefits in my career nor do I have the option to take stress leave without losing clients. When I have a new baby I have to either pay in for a whole year to receive paid maternity leave at 55% of my income and lose all the clientele that I have in the process or bite the bullet and take minimal time (typically no more than a couple to a few weeks) off work in order to secure my career. Running a home daycare is a very physically and mentally straining career and for that reason alone I would not continue to do what I do if I had to add an unstable income into the mix as well. I am in a large city and can typically fill any vacancies I have within a week of finding out I have one and I get one months notice of termination so it’s very rare that I am down a child. As far as I am concerned childcare in not expensive at all. I charge a flat rate of $650/month for a full time child of any age. On the average 22 work day month I make $29.55/day per child. The average child is with me from 7:30am - 5:00pm per day so if you break the fee down to an hourly rate families are paying $3.11 an hour for someone else to care for their children. Families also save themselves money on their monthly groceries bills as they do not have to worry about feeding their children during the day. Families save themselves money on their power, water and energy bills because they do not have to be home during the day to care for their own children. As far as I am concerned I am under paid and families are getting on he** of a deal paying only $3.11/hour for someone else to care for their children so I do not feel bad at all taking paid vacation to have the time to be with my own family without seeing an income lose in my business.

[Angelwings36]

I take three weeks of PAID vacation per year, 5 paid personal days that I can use for any reason and all stat holidays (I’m in Canada) at full pay. Last year was the first year that I took 3 weeks of paid vacation. In 2010 and 2009 I took two weeks of vacation at 50% pay and prior to that I didn’t take any paid vacation. I decided last year that I would start taking paid vacation to stabilize my income giving myself the means to take time off and be able to afford it. I do not give families any free childcare days. Families pay for the space here and not the services and I make that very clear in my interviews. I do not get paid benefits in my career nor do I have the option to take stress leave without losing clients. When I have a new baby I have to either pay in for a whole year to receive paid maternity leave at 55% of my income and lose all the clientele that I have in the process or bite the bullet and take minimal time (typically no more than a couple to a few weeks) off work in order to secure my career. Running a home daycare is a very physically and mentally straining career and for that reason alone I would not continue to do what I do if I had to add an unstable income into the mix as well. I am in a large city and can typically fill any vacancies I have within a week of finding out I have one and I get one months notice of termination so it’s very rare that I am down a child. As far as I am concerned childcare in not expensive at all. I charge a flat rate of $650/month for a full time child of any age. On the average 22 work day month I make $29.55/day per child. The average child is with me from 7:30am - 5:00pm per day so if you break the fee down to an hourly rate families are paying $3.11 an hour for someone else to care for their children. Families also save themselves money on their monthly groceries bills as they do not have to worry about feeding their children during the day. Families save themselves money on their power, water and energy bills because they do not have to be home during the day to care for their own children. As far as I am concerned I am under paid and families are getting on he** of a deal paying only $3.11/hour for someone else to care for their children so I do not feel bad at all taking paid vacation to have the time to be with my own family without seeing an income lose in my business.

If you really break things down and you think about it, if families are saving $200/month on their grocery bills not having to feed their children 3/4 of the time out of their own pockets and $100/month on utility bills not having to use their utitilites as often at $650/month in childcare fees they are really only paying $350/month out of their pocket extra for someone else to care for their children.

[Willow]

i respect your point of view and understand you dont want to feel convicted about getting paid for leave. That being said i dont feel convicted by charging for paid time off because from a bussiness point of view childcare is a service just like cable or a gym membership or rent or even health care insurrance or car insurance you may not use these service technically all the time but you sure will have a service bill every month faithfully. Even when a storm come and knocks your power out you still will receive a undiscounted electricity bill. You can take a summer vacation but you will still have to pay your rent un discounted. I have yet to see any one cutting off any of those services to nickle and dime the exact amount of serviced used. In a way the slot we sell for our child care service is simulare to an insurance policy. A agreement that under certian terms and conditions you will recieve childcare. If a insurance company relize it is not in there best interest to cover every car accident of their policy holders or refund the money paid for each month you don’t get in a accident and even create regulations in their contracts so that they can realistically provide a service with out going bankrupt why shouldnt we. It bussiness and as small bussiness owner we are more vonerable then a corperation if big bussiness think its wise then surely we cant afford to run our bussiness like that. What happen when the un expected happens for example: A death in the family, your own sick child ect life is to unpridictable to have your money unpredictable too. Why put your self in position where if something where to happen you got to decide can afford to loose the money over it we have overhead cost to think about and family responsibilty so if a crisis does arise at lease give yor self one less thing to worry about. Its good you have so much compassion for your clients and their interest im pretty sure that is one of the reasons why they choose you but there are many ways to show your apreciation and compassion for them besides shorting your self.

For each occupation you listed I could list 10 more that DON'T get paid when they don't work. You also aren't comparing apples to apples. In regards to an insurance policy though specifically....although a piece of paper stating a conglomerate of consumers will pay out if someone wrecks your car is nice...that policy is available 24/7/365...for one - we as daycare providers are not and two - if the policy were for whatever reason to become unavailable and we had to pay someone else for coverage we would ABSOLUTELY NOT be expected to continue paying the original premiums on top of the new premiums. That also has nothing to do with the employees that write those policies. I know this because it's exactly what my mother in law does (after retiring from doing daycare for nearly 30 years). She's paid a menial hourly wage, then commissions. You ARE using the car insurance every day, even if your car is just sitting there it's protected and the policy is being used. You however AREN'T using her services everyday. If you had to pay her every single day regardless of whether she was working or not your insurance premiums would be so sky high they would be near if not completely unaffordable.

So I'm sorry, but that's a moot point. Just because there are some occupations out there that do charge across the board whether they are actually providing a service or not, doesn't mean they all should be that way. If they were life would be so incredibly expensive none of us could afford to live.



And I have no idea why everyone assumes I am "shorting" my family. Everyone keeps bringing that up and I can't seem to make sense of it.

I am far from short of anything in life.

Without charging my parents for time I don't work I still have plenty to pay my bills, contribute to my savings, my children's savings, my 401K and have money left over for fun. We own our own vehicles, our own (beautiful newer) home, live on 48 acres in the country with 3 ponds, 9 pets (including a horse that eats just like the saying goes) and we have loads of "toys." We may still have to save up for things like Christmas but that's hardly suffering.

I plan for the unexpected. Everyone should. Just because my family endures a hardship doesn't mean that hardship should be passed on to someone else outside of my family because things get a little tough.

I am not sure why everyone assumes because I charge hourly and only for the time I'm actually working that my family is dirt floor poor and my children must be starving. I'm so tired of people telling me I should bill like I'm a major corporation....all the while expressing their stress and discontent with how it's tough to make their own ends meet......and people seriously wonder why that is? I personally believe that's why it's tough. Because this country has taken a turn towards living a life of entitlements. I feel I am doing my part not to contribute to that, and I'm raising my children the same way.


I am not greedy. I do not need more than I have in my life. I do my job well, I am well respected, and both myself and my daycare parents believe my policies are fair. It has nothing to do with compassion or appreciation for anyone else, it has to do with what I personally think is fair.

How anyone can peg that "shorting" anyone is beyond my comprehension.

[Willow]

Families also save themselves money on their monthly groceries bills as they do not have to worry about feeding their children during the day. Families save themselves money on their power, water and energy bills because they do not have to be home during the day to care for their own children. As far as I am concerned I am under paid and families are getting on he** of a deal paying only $3.11/hour for someone else to care for their children so I do not feel bad at all taking paid vacation to have the time to be with my own family without seeing an income lose in my business.

I am on a food program and actually MAKE money on the meals I feed my daycare children.

I also get to deduct every single household expense I have under the sun on my taxes...not limited to electricity, heating expenses, the mortgage, house repairs, improvements and maintenance, the gas I put in my vehicle, my telephone and internet expenses, my furniture, the gas I put into my lawn mower, my lawn mower itself etc etc etc etc etc........(we have a well so water isn't an expense for us but it would be tax deductible if it were)....my daycare parents receive none of those perks.

It more than evens out in my favor but I'm not sure how things work in Canada.

The way you speak leads me to believe you are incredibly resentful of the work you do and the parents that work outside of the home. I would not hold any job that made me feel that way. No one is saying you should feel bad charging the way you do, but it seems like even with that as your incentive you still don't at all feel that things are in your favor or even remotely fair.


I make far less than $3.11/hour/child but using that number - US minimum wage is only $7.25/hour. If you don't think some parents dishing out nearly HALF of their income just for child care is expensive.....could you make ends meet if you only brought home a whopping grand total of $4.14 an hour (even less when you figure they have to put gas in the tank to get there, additional vehicle maintenance, have a work wardrobe to maintain etc.). I know I couldn't....