What Do You Do With A Child Who Won't Stay In A Child's Place?

[Lucypch]

I believe in Montessori approach. Children don't see work as work they enjoy it and it doesn't have to be "work" if you know how to present the materials. Children love learning. And yes play is learning too! I see my child buttoning up the dolls clothes. She's learning!
You are making the choices and giving them choices that are within your limit. Example if the child is having a had time in the morning getting dressed. "Would you like to wear the red or blue shirt? "
A clear choice that involves the child wearing a shirt which is what I want.
It has really helped the tantrums go down.
There are times where they know there is a clear choice "you have to hold my hand when we cross the street" and followed by "if you don't I will pick you up"

[nannyde]

Have you asked if she wants to play? Maybe she's bored. At 6 you can give her more activities that engage her to think such as Nomenclature cards, story writing, culture study and so on there are great free downloadable materials on

http://www.montessoriforeveryone.com/Language-Materials_ep_60-1.html

If you hover over her and tell her what to do you are intimidating her. Through force we remove their choice and therefore their self esteem and ability to make commitments. Give her a choice would you like to play or write a story.

Conflict is an opportunity to teach. If she's telling on someone take the opportunity to talk as a community about what happened.

There's thousands of articles on the net now about how the generation of high self esttem kids are doing as new workers in the work force. Might want to see how that pans out when they HAVE to be one of many and just do their jobs.

Go play toys is the kiddie equivallent of "get to work". It's not about self esteem or a teaching opportunity. It's about being one of many and being able to entertain yourself. It's about be the entertainOR instead of the entertainee.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455219391652725.html

With Wall Street in turmoil and a financial system in crisis mode, companies are facing another major challenge: figuring out how to manage a new crop of young people in the work force -- the millennial generation. Born between 1980 and 2001, the millennials were coddled by their parents and nurtured with a strong sense of entitlement. In this adaptation from "The Trophy Kids Grow Up: How the Millennial Generation Is Shaking Up the Workplace," Ron Alsop, a contributor to The Wall Street Journal, describes the workplace attitudes of the millennials and employers' efforts to manage these demanding rookies.

* * *
When Gretchen Neels, a Boston-based consultant, was coaching a group of college students for job interviews, she asked them how they believe employers view them. She gave them a clue, telling them that the word she was looking for begins with the letter "e." One young man shouted out, "excellent." Other students chimed in with "enthusiastic" and "energetic." Not even close. The correct answer, she said, is "entitled." "Huh?" the students responded, surprised and even hurt to think that managers are offended by their highfalutin opinions of themselves.

If there is one overriding perception of the millennial generation, it's that these young people have great -- and sometimes outlandish -- expectations. Employers realize the millennials are their future work force, but they are concerned about this generation's desire to shape their jobs to fit their lives rather than adapt their lives to the workplace.


Alison Seiffer..Although members of other generations were considered somewhat spoiled in their youth, millennials feel an unusually strong sense of entitlement. Older adults criticize the high-maintenance rookies for demanding too much too soon. "They want to be CEO tomorrow," is a common refrain from corporate recruiters.

More than 85% of hiring managers and human-resource executives said they feel that millennials have a stronger sense of entitlement than older workers, according to a survey by CareerBuilder.com. The generation's greatest expectations: higher pay (74% of respondents); flexible work schedules (61%); a promotion within a year (56%); and more vacation or personal time (50%).

"They really do seem to want everything, and I can't decide if it's an inability or an unwillingness to make trade-offs," says Derrick Bolton, assistant dean and M.B.A. admissions director at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business. "They want to be CEO, for example, but they say they don't want to give up time with their families."

Millennials, of course, will have to temper their expectations as they seek employment during this deep economic slump. But their sense of entitlement is an ingrained trait that will likely resurface in a stronger job market. Some research studies indicate that the millennial generation's great expectations stem from feelings of superiority. Michigan State University's Collegiate Employment Research Institute and MonsterTrak, an online careers site, conducted a research study of 18- to 28-year-olds and found that nearly half had moderate to high superiority beliefs about themselves. The superiority factor was measured by responses to such statements as "I deserve favors from others" and "I know that I have more natural talents than most."

For their part, millennials believe they can afford to be picky, with talent shortages looming as baby boomers retire. "They are finding that they have to adjust work around our lives instead of us adjusting our lives around work," a teenage blogger named Olivia writes on the Web site Xanga.com. "What other option do they have? We are hard working and utilize tools to get the job done. But we don't want to work more than 40 hours a week, and we want to wear clothes that are comfortable. We want to be able to spice up the dull workday by listening to our iPods. If corporate America doesn't like that, too bad."

Where do such feelings come from? Blame it on doting parents, teachers and coaches. Millennials are truly "trophy kids," the pride and joy of their parents. The millennials were lavishly praised and often received trophies when they excelled, and sometimes when they didn't, to avoid damaging their self-esteem. They and their parents have placed a high premium on success, filling résumés with not only academic accolades but also sports and other extracurricular activities.

Now what happens when these trophy kids arrive in the workplace with greater expectations than any generation before them? "Their attitude is always 'What are you going to give me,' " says Natalie Griffith, manager of human-resource programs at Eaton Corp. "It's not necessarily arrogance; it's simply their mindset."

Millennials want loads of attention and guidance from employers. An annual or even semiannual evaluation isn't enough. They want to know how they're doing weekly, even daily. "The millennials were raised with so much affirmation and positive reinforcement that they come into the workplace needy for more," says Subha Barry, managing director and head of global diversity and inclusion at Merrill Lynch & Co.

But managers must tread lightly when making a critique. This generation was treated so delicately that many schoolteachers stopped grading papers and tests in harsh-looking red ink. Some managers have seen millennials break down in tears after a negative performance review and even quit their jobs. "They like the constant positive reinforcement, but don't always take suggestions for improvement well," says Steve Canale, recruiting manager at General Electric Co. In performance evaluations, "it's still important to give the good, the bad and the ugly, but with a more positive emphasis."

Millennials also want things spelled out clearly. Many flounder without precise guidelines but thrive in structured situations that provide clearly defined rules and the order that they crave. Managers will need to give step-by-step directions for handling everything from projects to voice-mail messages to client meetings. It may seem obvious that employees should show up on time, limit lunchtime to an hour and turn off cellphones during meetings. But those basics aren't necessarily apparent to many millennials.

Gail McDaniel, a corporate consultant and career coach for college students, spoke to managers at a health-care company who were frustrated by some of their millennial employees. It seems that one young man missed an important deadline, and when his manager asked him to explain, he said, "Oh, you forgot to remind me." Parents and teachers aren't doing millennials any favors by constantly adapting to their needs, Ms. McDaniel says. "Going into the workplace, they have an expectation that companies will adapt for them, too."

Millennials also expect a flexible work routine that allows them time for their family and personal interests. "For this generation, work is not a place you go; work is a thing you do," says Kaye Foster-Cheek, vice president for human resources at Johnson & Johnson.

Although millennials have high expectations about what their employers should provide them, companies shouldn't expect much loyalty in return. If a job doesn't prove fulfilling, millennials will forsake it in a flash. Indeed, many employers say it's retention that worries them most.

In the Michigan State/MonsterTrak study, about two-thirds of the millennials said they would likely "surf" from one job to the next. In addition, about 44% showed their lack of loyalty by stating that they would renege on a job-acceptance commitment if a better offer came along.

These workplace nomads don't see any stigma in listing three jobs in a single year on their resumes. They are quite confident about landing yet another job, even if it will take longer in this dismal economy. In the meantime, they needn't worry about their next paycheck because they have their parents to cushion them. They're comfortable in the knowledge that they can move back home while they seek another job. The weak job market may make millennials think twice about moving on, but once jobs are more plentiful, they will likely resume their job-hopping ways.

Justin Pfister, the founder of Open Yard, an online retailer of sports equipment, believes he and his fellow millennials will resist having their expectations deflated. If employers fail to provide the opportunities and rewards millennials seek, he says, they're likely to drop out of the corporate world as he did and become entrepreneurs. "We get stifled when we're offered single-dimensional jobs," he says. "We are multi-dimensional people living and working in a multi-dimensional world."

These outspoken young people tend to be highly opinionated and fearlessly challenge recruiters and bosses. Status and hierarchy don't impress them much. They want to be treated like colleagues rather than subordinates and expect ready access to senior executives, even the CEO, to share their brilliant ideas. Recruiters at such companies as investment-banking firm Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Amazon.com describe "student stalkers" who brashly fire off emails to everyone from the CEO on down, trying to get an inside track to a job.

Companies have a vested interest in trying to slow the millennial mobility rate. They not only will need millennials to fill positions left vacant by retiring baby boomers but also will benefit from this generation's best and brightest, who possess significant strengths in teamwork, technology skills, social networking and multitasking. Millennials were bred for achievement, and most will work hard if the task is engaging and promises a tangible payoff.

Clearly, companies that want to compete for top talent must bend a bit and adapt to the millennial generation. Employers need to show new hires how their work makes a difference and why it's of value to the company. Smart managers will listen to their young employees' opinions, and give them some say in decisions. Employers also can detail the career opportunities available to millennials if they'll just stick around awhile. Indeed, it's the wealth of opportunities that will prove to be the most effective retention tool.

In the final analysis, the generational tension is a bit ironic. After all, the grumbling baby-boomer managers are the same indulgent parents who produced the millennial generation. Ms. Barry of Merrill Lynch sees the irony. She is teaching her teenage daughter to value her own opinions and to challenge things. Now she sees many of those challenging millennials at her company and wonders how she and other managers can expect the kids they raised to suddenly behave differently at work. "It doesn't mean we can be as indulgent as managers as we are as parents," she says. "But as parents of young people just like them, we can treat them with respect."

[Blackcat31]

Awesome post Nan!

[JenNJ]

I believe in Montessori approach. Children don't see work as work they enjoy it and it doesn't have to be "work" if you know how to present the materials. Children love learning. And yes play is learning too! I see my child buttoning up the dolls clothes. She's learning!
You are making the choices and giving them choices that are within your limit. Example if the child is having a had time in the morning getting dressed. "Would you like to wear the red or blue shirt? "
A clear choice that involves the child wearing a shirt which is what I want.
It has really helped the tantrums go down.
There are times where they know there is a clear choice "you have to hold my hand when we cross the street" and followed by "if you don't I will pick you up"

And while all of this is great, it does not help the problem at hand. Tattling is not allowed in the OP's daycare. It is a rule. As adult members of society, we all need to follow rules (laws) for the group as a whole to be successful. This is the premise that all daycares thrive on. Rules are made and followed for the good of the group. I don't see any issue with an adult authority figure enforcing rules with children. Without a clear set of rules, daycare would be a very dangerous place.

The child DOES have a choice here: if she tattles, she will have a consequence; if she worries about her task at hand only and lets the daycare provider handle the problems, she will continue to be rewarded with privileges and praise.

[youretooloud]

I use less words too.

Honestly, I hate listening to people who use too many words. "I washed the sheets" is fine. I don't need "I washed the sheets, and I used fabric softener so they should be nice and fresh, then I folded them in order, so the fitted sheet is on the top of the pile, and now you can make the bed, and the way I folded them makes it easier for you."

Because "I washed the sheets" would have been enough for me, and I tune out all the rest.

"Go play".

"Stop!"

A simple point into the playroom, with a look that says go play is usually enough.

[nannyde]

Awesome post Nan!

OP's this: She is constantly in my or my assistant's face, telling on someone, telling US how we should handle other children, telling us what we should do next, asking for things. She is constantly telling other children what to do.

and this:


If I give her an instruction, I have to give it over and over...because after each one she's telling me how she would rather do it or "why don't you make ____ do it".

leads to this:

These outspoken young people tend to be highly opinionated and fearlessly challenge recruiters and bosses. Status and hierarchy don't impress them much. They want to be treated like colleagues rather than subordinates and expect ready access to senior executives, even the CEO, to share their brilliant ideas.

[cheerfuldom]

many parents confuse bossiness as a leadership quality. Likewise, many confuse outright disrespect as an independent nature.

A four year old should never be in a position of leadership. They are four, for goodness sake. Age appropriate responsibility is one thing but why would you give a child a leadership role when they can clearly not control themselves yet?

As another poster said, leadership is a very heavy burden to bear. I can remember being a 5 year old, cleaning (dishes, organizing closets and everything!) and being privy to my parents drama. I cannot remember having a time where I could just play and not have these very adult issues to worry about. The best gift I can give my kids is a childhood. They can run free in our backyard, get dirty, learn, be snuggled and read to and all those fun childhood memories. There will be plenty of opportunities for leadership in the future. I would never ask them of that now or allow them to demand it. Its important that they grow and gain skills in a healthy progression.

[Lucypch]

So if she gets hurt she should be quite and take it. Because you have no voice or say. You will be punished if you talk because you area child.
Wow. I'm out of here. This makes me so sad.
Listen to children. Respect them. Love them.
I do ts becuase I Love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children are brilliant and can do more then we think if we just have faith and give them the tools.

[MsMe]

So if she gets hurt she should be quite and take it. Because you have no voice or say. You will be punished if you talk because you area child.
Wow. I'm out of here. This makes me so sad.
Listen to children. Respect them. Love them.
I do ts becuase I Love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children are brilliant and can do more then we think if we just have faith and give them the tools.

???What???

[nannyde]

So if she gets hurt she should be quite and take it. Because you have no voice or say. You will be punished if you talk because you area child.
Wow. I'm out of here. This makes me so sad.
Listen to children. Respect them. Love them.
I do ts becuase I Love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children are brilliant and can do more then we think if we just have faith and give them the tools.

No if she gets hurt the adult will SEE the getting hurt, SEE the look of pain, SEE the change in her inflection and her body movements. When an adult SEES she is hurt then of course they will check and do the appropriate care and lovins... then go play toys.

The OP didn't say anything about the child behaving badly during injury. How does that have to do with her interupting adults and directing adults?

The loving respectful thing to do with kids is prepare them for REAL life where they are one of many........ with bosses............ with work......... with boredom............. with age mates...... with younger....... with older....

I do it because I love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children ARE brilliant and can do exactly what I think they can do. Having them have a childhood of being a CHILD and PLAY with repect for their position and respect for their elders will give them the tools they need to be successful.

See that wording goes both ways.

I think you are mistaking the intent of the OP. She didn't come and ask about what to do to get the childs self esteem up. She doesn't HAVE problems with the kid when she's doing as the child wants. The kid doesn't have any issues with directing adults or doing as she pleases.

It's when she's told to be one of the GROUP and stay out of the adults business that the kid is having a hard time. She's not having a problem when she's played WITH it's when the adults AREN'T playing with her.

The suggestions you gave are about playing WITH her and finding more special for her to do. She does fine with THAT stuff. She's okie dokie when she gets to lead. It's when she's NOT leading that's the problem the OP brought to us.

[sharlan]

So if she gets hurt she should be quite and take it. Because you have no voice or say. You will be punished if you talk because you area child.
Wow. I'm out of here. This makes me so sad.
Listen to children. Respect them. Love them.
I do ts becuase I Love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children are brilliant and can do more then we think if we just have faith and give them the tools.

I don't believe that anyone is saying this.

Letting an adult know that you are being hurt is not tattling. No one expects a child being hurt to be quiet and take it. IMHO, a child being hurt by another child needs the moment to deal with it, to say STOP, but when that doesn't work, they most definitely need to ask for an adult to intervene. We need to give them a chance to stand up for themselves and not intervene the second something happens. Obviously, I am not talking about infants or way older/younger situations.

A child tattling about mundane issues needs to be redirected. A child telling you how to do your job needs to be redirected. The adult needs to do it in whatever way works for them.

[youretooloud]

So if she gets hurt she should be quite and take it. Because you have no voice or say. You will be punished if you talk because you area child.
Wow. I'm out of here. This makes me so sad.
Listen to children. Respect them. Love them.
I do ts becuase I Love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children are brilliant and can do more then we think if we just have faith and give them the tools.

I do agree with all of that. But, nobody can listen to the same child talk all day. Even if he or she has a strong opinion.

Kids have a LOT more energy than adults, and can spend a whole entire childhood talking and requiring attention. Kids in school are not allowed to have a nonstop opinion. They are not invited into a group of teacher's conversations because they have no business in it. The teacher will start sending notes home to the parents about little CIndy's excessive talking or interrupting.

Customers want an employee to do his or her job..not eavesdrop and put in their two cents. I don't want a waitress to sit down at my table and give me their opinion on my problems, or tell me how to parent.

Adults can't walk up to you in Walmart and tell you that you should buy your child a snack, because the child looks hungry.

We adults were all taught to mind our business when we were children. There's a respectful way to do that...but, we do not owe it to children to think they are the entire world. We owe it to them to respectfully teach them that while we value their opinion, giving orders to others is not acceptable in most circles.

The attitude lately that bugs me the most, is that if another adult would DARE, even consider giving you advice or an opinion is highly insulting to other adults. Literally...an adult can NEVER say to another parent "Oh, he's standing up in the cart..he might fall" without really upsetting the parent. EVERYTHING is none of anybody else's business. BUT, these same parents want their precious, highly important child to be able to interject any thoughts or ideas on an adult, no matter how rude it seems. THAT is perfectly fine. But, adults no longer have the right to speak up. Only children.

[JenNJ]

So if she gets hurt she should be quite and take it. Because you have no voice or say. You will be punished if you talk because you area child.
Wow. I'm out of here. This makes me so sad.
Listen to children. Respect them. Love them.
I do ts becuase I Love children and enjoy what I'm doing. Seeing their interaction and development is wonderful. Children are brilliant and can do more then we think if we just have faith and give them the tools.

You are making very strange assumptions. You speak a lot about listening to kids, but I wonder if you HEAR them. You certainly aren't HEARING me.

If someone is hurt, obviously that is not the same as tattling. Tattling is reporting every minor thing back to the provider for the sole purpose of getting someone else "in trouble."

All of my kids (both my own and my daycare kids) have voices. They choose activities to fill our days, they choose what they do or do not want to eat, they choose the dress up clothes to wear, the toys to play with, the materials to use in an art project. They choose to sleep when they are tired, to run when they are energetic, and to sing when they are happy. These are age appropriate choices.

Sometimes they do not have a choice. They do not choose if they will listen when the fire alarm goes off -- they WILL listen. They do not have a choice of what shoes to wear outside -- it is dangerous to wear sandals on the play equipment. They do not a have a choice to open the door -- they will not open it because it is dangerous for themselves and others. I make those choices for them because I RESPECT the responsibility that their parents have placed in me to protect and care for their children.

I respect their well being and safety first and foremost. I respect their right to make choices as long as they are making safe, age appropriate choices. I do this because I love them and my world would end if anything bad ever happened to them.

[Unregistered]

My 2 cents

I have a couple bossy little girls and if I were to let them "help" or be "leaders", it wouldn't take long for chaos to set in. If I were to give them the opportunity to be in charge of anything, the other dcks would be miserable. I don't let them tattle on the other kids if it's not a matter of safety. No special treatment. No exceptions.

I am the adult here and that means that I call the shots. It doesn't mean that I don't listen to my dcks. I listen to them because I want them to know that they are being heard, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to do what they want me to do.

I have a very strict policy when it comes to being disrespectful to anyone. Not just adults, but other children in my care, too. I see it happen way too much when some parents come to pick up their kids and instead of parents getting hugs, they are getting screamed at by their 4 year old or having the child order them around and actually have that work! Seriously, if I had ordered my mom to take me to McDonald's and buy a happy meal for me, it wouldn't have worked. I would have gotten into trouble.

[daycare]

You are making very strange assumptions. You speak a lot about listening to kids, but I wonder if you HEAR them. You certainly aren't HEARING me.

If someone is hurt, obviously that is not the same as tattling. Tattling is reporting every minor thing back to the provider for the sole purpose of getting someone else "in trouble."

All of my kids (both my own and my daycare kids) have voices. They choose activities to fill our days, they choose what they do or do not want to eat, they choose the dress up clothes to wear, the toys to play with, the materials to use in an art project. They choose to sleep when they are tired, to run when they are energetic, and to sing when they are happy. These are age appropriate choices.

Sometimes they do not have a choice. They do not choose if they will listen when the fire alarm goes off -- they WILL listen. They do not have a choice of what shoes to wear outside -- it is dangerous to wear sandals on the play equipment. They do not a have a choice to open the door -- they will not open it because it is dangerous for themselves and others. I make those choices for them because I RESPECT the responsibility that their parents have placed in me to protect and care for their children.

I respect their well being and safety first and foremost. I respect their right to make choices as long as they are making safe, age appropriate choices. I do this because I love them and my world would end if anything bad ever happened to them.

go girl......

I agree with this....big difference.. Nothing worse than see a child get off on getting their friends into trouble..

My rules:
unless your not breathing, your bleeding, hurt or the house is on fire, I don't want to hear the tattle.

We have discussion time where we all sit and talk about our weekends or whatever is on their mind. Talking to a child and having to hear tattle non stop is 2 different things...