Making A Parent Pay For "Damage"

[Cradle2crayons]

It's not muc different here in the state I'm in. When my daughter was first assessed we waited 2 months for the add part of the assessment because only one guy local does it. Then we waited another month for the psychiatrist appointment. Then we had to wait for the official results etc....

[RosieMommy]

I don't think she is meaning kids who are really diagnosed. Because I have to totally agree with her. I have never ever seen a rise in such silliness. Here in canada you can apply for money to help you out. I can see kids who get properly diagnosed, but there are so many kids whos parents "diagnose" them and then call it special needs. Even teachers are now saying most kids have adhd (ds's teacher even said this to me because ds goes to the bathroom twice a day at school--I kid you not, he thinks ds has adhd)

Yes I agree that it seems like everyone has ADHD these days when they haven't actually been diagnosed with it.

[RosieMommy]

I don't think she is meaning kids who are really diagnosed. Because I have to totally agree with her. I have never ever seen a rise in such silliness. Here in canada you can apply for money to help you out. I can see kids who get properly diagnosed, but there are so many kids whos parents "diagnose" them and then call it special needs. Even teachers are now saying most kids have adhd (ds's teacher even said this to me because ds goes to the bathroom twice a day at school--I kid you not, he thinks ds has adhd)

Can you get financial assistance without a diagnosis?

[Cradle2crayons]

Yes I agree that it seems like everyone has ADHD these days when they haven't actually been diagnosed with it.

As a mom of one of those truly diagnosed, I completely agree. I know several parents who I have been around their kids since they were babies, and around the age of six and seven they suddenly decide their kids have it, search out a doc who will medicate without a real diagnosis, because they think their kids need meds. Then what happens is the kid gets really out of control because they are tripping on speed because they are NOT really ADHD etc etc... When in fact their kid has a severe form of "I have no consequences at all"

[RosieMommy]

As provider, I wouldn't expect you to pay, and your child should not have been placed alone in a room for even one minute.

That being said, as a parent, I have to disagree with your "approach" to "discipline".

Your child KNOWS that she has control because she never expereinces any "negative" consequesnces for her behavior. She throws screaming fits and DEMANDS to have her way because you "know her currency" but it leaves the provider very little to work with. I could be wrong, but It also seems as though you are creating a "special need" for her so that her behavior will be acceptable in group care. I have actually had a couple of parents do that in the past here at my program. Their children were FINE here, with me. BUT, at home, not so much. SO, they went to every single place they could find until they got a diagnosis that got them the free, special needs care that they wanted for their children. Their children were perfectly capable of being in group care with typically developing children, the parents simply could not figure out why they didn't behave for THEM, so they gave it a name.

Please, do your child a favor and give her REAL consequences for her behavior. Simply removing a toy that she isn't using correctly while allowing her to continue playing with others lets her know that she is the one in control. Sure, this is effective some time....but if that is ALL you do ALL the time, well, she knows It is truly a real disservice to your child....she needs more firm, clear boundaries.

BTW....I don't say these things lightly. I don't use time out, but I certainly WILL NOT allow a child to tantrum and be out of control on my watch. Your child needs a firm, loving provider who COMMANDS RESPECT, while giving respect back for appropriate behavior.

But it sounded like the child was behaving better for her parents and NOT in the group setting. Did I read that wrong?

[countrymom]

As a mom of one of those truly diagnosed, I completely agree. I know several parents who I have been around their kids since they were babies, and around the age of six and seven they suddenly decide their kids have it, search out a doc who will medicate without a real diagnosis, because they think their kids need meds. Then what happens is the kid gets really out of control because they are tripping on speed because they are NOT really ADHD etc etc... When in fact their kid has a severe form of "I have no consequences at all"

and here I thought it was just me who started to notice this too. How come when I grew up we didn't have kids like this. Maybe because we had discipline, I don't know. I'm glad others are starting to see this too.

[RosieMommy]

I'm going to be blunt. Your dd is ruling the roost. Time to wake up and stop blaming everyone.

Your dd isn't special needs, she needs discipline. Time outs don't work, ha, have you even tried them. Do you know how to do them right.

Your dd dumped toys on the floor and refused to clean up, she knew what she was doing. So a consequence needs to follow. What are you going to do when she goes to the store, hide all the stuff so she doesn't throw things on the floor. Lady wake up, your dd's situation is fixable.

also, I find it odd that your provider told you that she put your dd in a room and shut the door and then admit it???

also, I'm curious what kind of discipline do you use at home, I don't see anywhere in the posts what you acually use. You can't keep redirecting kids, its just doesn't work with everyone, and you said you were a teacher so you should know.

also, what kind of preschool do we have in canada?????? Do you mean junior kindy. And Esp. one that deals with sn kids. Because we have specific centers, not preschools.

She had previously stated that time outs aren't effective with this child. Time outs are not effective with all kids. I was one of them -- I just told myself stories and entertained myself until I was able to go back to play or whatever. It didn't stop me from doing whatever caused me to put there. Really I think time outs were more for the caregivers and my mom than they were for me.

Anyway, does anyone actually have any suggestions as to what other discipline methods she could try besides redirection and what's already described by her? Everyone keeps saying discipline your child and have real consequences etc. What are some ways or some things you think she can do that might help with a strong willed child.

[RosieMommy]

and here I thought it was just me who started to notice this too. How come when I grew up we didn't have kids like this. Maybe because we had discipline, I don't know. I'm glad others are starting to see this too.

There were kids like this. Some of them were the really "bad" kids who just always stayed "bad" who if they had been diagnosed and resources available, could have gotten the help and treatment they needed.

[Cradle2crayons]

She had previously stated that time outs aren't effective with this child. Time outs are not effective with all kids. I was one of them -- I just told myself stories and entertained myself until I was able to go back to play or whatever. It didn't stop me from doing whatever caused me to put there. Really I think time outs were more for the caregivers and my mom than they were for me.

Anyway, does anyone actually have any suggestions as to what other discipline methods she could try besides redirection and what's already described by her? Everyone keeps saying discipline your child and have real consequences etc. What are some ways or some things you think she can do that might help with a strong willed child.

I think the pp was questioning whether the parent was actually using time out in the CORRECT way. And I'm curious to know that too. They aren't effective for all but most parents actually don't do them right to begin with. I've seen that quite a bit actually.

My daughter is extremely strong willed and a lot of what I use with her is removal of privileges. I have been known to remove everything from her bedroom except her bed and covers and put it into storage until she learned to keep her room clean.

When I kept discovering all of her clean clothes were in the dirty clothes and I got tired of washing them over and over, now she does her OWN laundry and I can assure you it's ONLY dirty clothes now .

We she wouldn't keep her stuff out of the living area I adapted an uh oh box and took her items and put them in toy jail In a box. If she wanted them out, she had to do a chore. Worked like a charm. Now my uh oh box is small and empty haha.

Sometimes it takes a little creativity for the kid to realize they need to make the RIGHT choices.

[countrymom]

She had previously stated that time outs aren't effective with this child. Time outs are not effective with all kids. I was one of them -- I just told myself stories and entertained myself until I was able to go back to play or whatever. It didn't stop me from doing whatever caused me to put there. Really I think time outs were more for the caregivers and my mom than they were for me.

Anyway, does anyone actually have any suggestions as to what other discipline methods she could try besides redirection and what's already described by her? Everyone keeps saying discipline your child and have real consequences etc. What are some ways or some things you think she can do that might help with a strong willed child.

I know time outs don't work with everyone, but I'm wondering if she is doing them right. Also, I noticed she never said what kind of discipline she told the provider to use. Redirection doesn't work with every kid either (happened today, but the time out worked--no more hitting ) If the op told us what she wanted the provider to do then we could understand it better.
The child dumped toys on the floor and refused to clean it up, did the mom want the provider to redirect her which I think is weird because the child knew not to touch the toy. Also, moms expectation of hiding the toys the child can't play with, is also rediculous. I think there is too much missing from this post.

Also, I think many of us, use mats or chairs when we redirect kids. I have kids who need to calm down but I don't call it time out even thou it is kwim. I think this parent was just giving in and the kid is just use to it. I have a dcg who doesn't get her way will throw herself on the floor and scream. At first I let her be, but then the other kids started complaining and redirecting her wasn't working because she would just go and scream and throw herself somewhere else. I now put her on my mat in the kitchen till she can calm down. I also let her know that we can't behave like this when i tell her know that it makes her friends sad, and we all know that we can never make our friends sad ::

[countrymom]

I have a strong willed kid (ok she's a pita some days) I even went to a class about how to fix her. They told me that as she got older she would get better, she's 12 now lets just say she'll make a good lawyer. She will argue with you till you agree with her !

[RosieMommy]

I know time outs don't work with everyone, but I'm wondering if she is doing them right. Also, I noticed she never said what kind of discipline she told the provider to use. Redirection doesn't work with every kid either (happened today, but the time out worked--no more hitting ) If the op told us what she wanted the provider to do then we could understand it better.
The child dumped toys on the floor and refused to clean it up, did the mom want the provider to redirect her which I think is weird because the child knew not to touch the toy. Also, moms expectation of hiding the toys the child can't play with, is also rediculous. I think there is too much missing from this post.

Also, I think many of us, use mats or chairs when we redirect kids. I have kids who need to calm down but I don't call it time out even thou it is kwim. I think this parent was just giving in and the kid is just use to it. I have a dcg who doesn't get her way will throw herself on the floor and scream. At first I let her be, but then the other kids started complaining and redirecting her wasn't working because she would just go and scream and throw herself somewhere else. I now put her on my mat in the kitchen till she can calm down. I also let her know that we can't behave like this when i tell her know that it makes her friends sad, and we all know that we can never make our friends sad ::

I see what you're saying. She also mentioned the older kid had also issues and I was wondering what was going on there in terms of the behavior and if she was using the same methods.

But what about other methods? I have a young toddler and I'd like to know myself what works for you all. She's 14 months if that helps.

My mom was "old school" if you kwim so I'm not keen at all on repeating what SHE did (she attempted to change her ways at one point and the time outs didn't work with me but still).

[RosieMommy]

I think the pp was questioning whether the parent was actually using time out in the CORRECT way. And I'm curious to know that too. They aren't effective for all but most parents actually don't do them right to begin with. I've seen that quite a bit actually.

My daughter is extremely strong willed and a lot of what I use with her is removal of privileges. I have been known to remove everything from her bedroom except her bed and covers and put it into storage until she learned to keep her room clean.

When I kept discovering all of her clean clothes were in the dirty clothes and I got tired of washing them over and over, now she does her OWN laundry and I can assure you it's ONLY dirty clothes now .

We she wouldn't keep her stuff out of the living area I adapted an uh oh box and took her items and put them in toy jail In a box. If she wanted them out, she had to do a chore. Worked like a charm. Now my uh oh box is small and empty haha.

Sometimes it takes a little creativity for the kid to realize they need to make the RIGHT choices.

Ooh those are some good ideas re keeping room clean and toy jail. I am filing this away. I REALLY REALLY like toy jail.

[Blackcat31]

Anyway, does anyone actually have any suggestions as to what other discipline methods she could try besides redirection and what's already described by her? Everyone keeps saying discipline your child and have real consequences etc. What are some ways or some things you think she can do that might help with a strong willed child.

Discipline for a strong-willed child requires a little more of a firmer hand. Discipline must be tailored to the child.

It is important that discipline be consistently applied and that it does not break the child's spirit. Time-outs, scoldings, spankings - usually mean little or nothing.

You need to find out what does matter. Find out what the child values most.

If the child loves the outdoors, nature, and climbing trees, when discipline becomes necessary, withholding an outdoor activity is an appropriate consequence.

Knowing the child is critical to any effective discipline.

For compliant children we usually speak to the child in a calm even tone, set clear and concise boundaries, explain consequences.

We spend time teaching and training children as to what we expect.

We need to be consistent and firm and encourage and give praise when a child follows the rules.

For the strong-willed child we need to do ALL of those things IN ADDITION to some other techniques.

Continue trying until you find the leverage that works with that child. Sometimes a more rigid behavioral system may need to be applied.

You can try removing privileges until the child shows a willingness to comply with the rules.

It's important to remember that strong willed children ARE willfully defying you and much of what they do may be purely for attention.

Because of the strong need for consistency and routine, it is important to resist the temptation to make allowances for this child, just because they may be screaming or tantruming. In an even tone of voice, you must tell the child his/her behavior is NOT acceptable.

You need to firmly establish your control and don't give it to the child.

Often, these kids are really prone to power-struggles.

However, it takes two to have a power struggle

Research shows that parents who pay attention can avoid power struggles, even with strong-willed kids, by empathizing as they set limits, giving choices, and clearly offering respect.

Adopting a policy of looking for win/win solutions rather than just laying down the law keeps strong-willed children from becoming explosive and teaches them essential skills of negotiation and compromise.

Strong-willed kids feel their integrity is compromised if they're forced to submit to a parent's will. And, really, you don't WANT to raise an obedient child.

Morality is doing what's right, no matter what you're told.

Obedience is doing what you're told, no matter what's right.

(http://www.ahaparenting.com/parentin...g-Willed-Child)

[Cradle2crayons]

Lol my favorite part is the signing the box


It has a huge frownie face and the it says

"UH OH!!!"
YOU left it out
MOM picked it up
She's got your stuff
You're out of LUCK
To get it back
Must do a CHORE
Again it is yours
Just like before

The to to side I attached a little pocket containing laminated chores chores are age appropriate