Minnesota Shutdown Impact

[jen]

Oh it's simple all right.

My sister and her husband are facing 20K in college tuition, books, living etc. for their 18 year old. I'm sure they would appreciate 15K a year in cash assistance so she can get the: Higher incomes equal mean higher tax base, equals increased home values, equals better public education...

I get it...

Believe me I get it.

Why not my neice? Why Amy?

C'mon...you know the answer to that.

I'm facing the same situation regarding my 17 yo son as well...plus my husband is in grad school and I will be following behind in the fall.

If Amy qualifies for assistance that I don't or your neice doesn't, it's because we make more money than Amy does. I certainly don't begrudge her that! We are blessed that we are able to provide an education for ourselves and our children.

When we help Amy accomplish her educational goals, we aren't just helping Amy, we help Amy's children and her children's children. We break the cycle of poverty and create a stronger economic system for years to come.

My son, your neice, they are the details, the little picture. In order to make big improvements, we need to see the big picture. We need to work to end poverty, not trap people in it.

[nannyde]

C'mon...you know the answer to that.

I'm facing the same situation regarding my 17 yo son as well...plus my husband is in grad school and I will be following behind in the fall.

If Amy qualifies for assistance that I don't or your neice doesn't, it's because we make more money than Amy does. I certainly don't begrudge her that! We are blessed that we are able to provide an education for ourselves and our children.

When we help Amy accomplish her educational goals, we aren't just helping Amy, we help Amy's children and her children's children. We break the cycle of poverty and create a stronger economic system for years to come.

My son, your neice, they are the details, the little picture. In order to make big improvements, we need to see the big picture. We need to work to end poverty, not trap people in it.

No I don't get it.

My neice doesn't have kids so her assistance is based on her parents income.

Amy has kids so her assistance is based on her income.

How about we go off of Amy's parents income when it comes to funding her? How about we go off of the Dad's income AND Amy's income AND the grandparents income on both sides?

It's all about education and all... let's consider the parents of the children AND their parents before we start shucking out a bunch of cash money for the sake of the kids.

[Unregistered]

your neice is being claimed as a dependent child

She should get a job, move out, let her parents give up the right to claim her, and apply for performance based aid, grants and loans like everyone else.

The child tax credit plus the education tax credit will almost equal the tuition paid including cost of attendance (housing, books, etc.). My dad, who divorced my mom and did NOT support me, tried every year to take this.

Saying that - my parents, and most of the parents of my colleges mates got no help from parents.

I paid house payments to save my mother's home on several occasions - with student loans!

When it comes down to it, Nanny, are you really jealous of a single mom who has to access assistance?

[Unregistered]

2nd - MN law regulates the apartment size a family (or other group of people) can rent. By law, I am not even allowed to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, because I have two children who are not the same gender that I am. Your suggested lifestyle is illegal by MN rental standards.

Could you please show me that law? You pay full rent at market rate??? You are not a a person is living in an apartment where part or all of their rent is covered by Section 8 or HUD?

I will find Mn statute later tonight, but, YES. I PAY MY OWN RENT. Have you read anything I've written? The ONLY assistance we get is ccap. I PAY WITH MY EARNED WAGES for everything else. Is it so hats for you to believe that someone who receives ccap isn't on every warfare program ever created? Ccap males it possible for me to provided for my family. That's why it's important. Get it?

[jen]

Nan, if it were up to me everyone who wanted to go to college or technical school would be able to attend a public post secondary school for free or next to it.

[Unregistered]

How about we go off of Amy's parents income when it comes to funding her? How about we go off of the Dad's income AND Amy's income AND the grandparents income on both sides?

It's all about education and all... let's consider the parents of the children AND their parents before we start shucking out a bunch of cash money for the sake of the kids.

Why not? Because my parents abandoned me when I was 14. Can you find my child molesting father and tell him to pay? Cause I haven't seen him in over a decade.

I'm sorry that you begrudge the $600 annually that taxpayers spend on caring for my children, but that's your problem. You are angry because you feel that someone you know is more deserving than me. Get over it. If your niece was on assistance, would you be treating her like you treat me? No.

Again, I don't recieve cash assistance. Maybe you should attempt to read what I wrote before you respond to me again.

[Unregistered]

Then how come I have a dcm in care who has a 9 year old and a 4 year old and has found neither father for her children and yet continues to recieve child care assistance. She has had several men tested for each child and not yet come up with biological father(s). She works on and off and yet has continually received FULL COVERAGE for her child care costs since her 10 year old was first enrolled at 6 weeks old. She pays a $2 co-pay on a bi-weekly basis. She receives 70 hours of care for her children bi-weekly also.

So not once but twice she has made poor choices and besides her children, the taxpayers are the only ones who bear the burden for those choices.

Signed,

NOT FAIR AND SICK OF IT!!!

I SAID YOU HAVE TO COOPERATE AND WORK WITH THE STATE TO FIND THE FATHER TEST FOR PATERNITY AND THEN FORCE THEM TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT. Nobody said that was going to be easy if you make poor life choices. One case you know of doesn't mean jack. Everyone knows someone using the system and for those who pay in thousands in taxes each year yes it is frustrating HOWEVER this thread started out with info for MN providers who were affected by the shut down.

If you don't like the system then don't accept CCA clients. PERIOD. I accept assistance clients and do not judge others based on their choices. I am affected by the shutdown and have lost 75% of my income. I don't do daycare for a hobby, I do it to pay my bills and while most of my income is gone I still have to do that.

If you want to whine about your family not getting their "fair" share b/c of other people and the system I suggest the off topic section for registered people.

[Crystal]

No I don't get it.

My neice doesn't have kids so her assistance is based on her parents income.

Amy has kids so her assistance is based on her income.

How about we go off of Amy's parents income when it comes to funding her? How about we go off of the Dad's income AND Amy's income AND the grandparents income on both sides?

It's all about education and all... let's consider the parents of the children AND their parents before we start shucking out a bunch of cash money for the sake of the kids.

All children, up to age 24, are required to use their parents income to qualify for student aid. Amy may be older, and yes, her student LOANS, that she will repay, are based on her family size and income. I am going through this now, my daughter goes to UCSC in the fall and we have to use our income for her loans and grants and will have to until she is 24, UNLESS she can prove that she was an emancipated minor.

[nannyde]

I will find Mn statute later tonight, but, YES. I PAY MY OWN RENT. Have you read anything I've written? The ONLY assistance we get is ccap. I PAY WITH MY EARNED WAGES for everything else. Is it so hats for you to believe that someone who receives ccap isn't on every warfare program ever created? Ccap males it possible for me to provided for my family. That's why it's important. Get it?

I will find Mn statute later tonight,

Okay I'll check for your response tonight.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Wow....

This has been an intense thread. I think this debate reflects the overall mood in the country right now. There are likely no millionaires on this forum, so its just us working folks making these arguments for and against public assistance. NOBODY likes the idea of welfare 'cheats', there's not a sane person would advocate for wasting tax dollars. We as providers have all seen people who needed and deserved assistance, and we've seen the cheats. Amy, I support what you are doing and I think you're one of those that appreciates the assistance and doesn't take it for granted. Nannyde and others, I think no one would disagree that the "cheats" are abhorrent and they should get off their lazy butts and contribute to society and WORK to support their families. WE ALL WORK HARD, SO SHOULD THEY!!!! The original poster wanted to communicate to us all that the state of MN was needing feedback about how the shut-down was affecting parents and providers. I guess I stirred this whole pot by expressing my outrage over the politics involved there. I stick by my original thought, that its a shame that children, the elderly, the handicapped and the sick are the FIRST ones who suffer from budget cuts. I didn't mean to start the whole "welfare" debate. I just HATE to see providers who count on state funding to suffer, and HATE to see people that work hard and struggle to provide for their kids suffer. That's all. Yes, BOOOO to welfare cheats (criminals, really) and the ones who don't appreciate or abuse their assistance. And BOOOO to states that play games with the budgets to score political points at the expense of the needy. But YAY to working moms like Amy who are trying to do the right thing and need a temporary hand-up. I think we can all agree that we often disagree, and that's the beauty of the USA. Who is with me here?

[nannyde]

When it comes down to it, Nanny, are you really jealous of a single mom who has to access assistance?

Jealous?

I'm saying we can't afford it. It's a luxury that's just too expensive to foot right now. IMHO the entire thing needs to be scrapped.

[Crystal]

This is sad.

Just because a family recieves child care subsidy doesn't mean they are low-life welfare people that are just sitting around collecting a check....and even if they are getting welfare, in addition to their child care subsidy, they are also either working (and making to little to survive without assistance) or are going to school so that they can better themselves and provide for their children. Sure, there are those out there that will fraudulently, or lazily, collect from the system, but I hardly think that the vast majority of families recieveing a child care subsidy are raking in the dough.

In my 14 years as a provider, I have had a few single Moms who recieved a state subsidy. One family was with me for 11 years, and for 7 of them she recieved the child care subsidy. BUT, she also went to work every day, took EXCELLENT care of her children, spent LOTS of quality time with them, and she has worked hard to rise above her circumstances and is now very successful. I was with her every step of the way, cheering her on.....without that subsidy she would have had to stay home and collect welfare....without that subsidy she would not have worked her way up to where she is now, grossing six figures and paying back ALL those tax payer dollars. I have had simliar experiences with my other state paid clients, and I like to think that my non-judgemental, accepting and caring attitude helped them get where they are today.....I do know that each and every on of them appreciated having me in their's and their children's lives.....

So, I hope that those of you who are recieving the child care subsidy don't lose it. I I hope that all of the providers out there who have state paid clients don't lose them either.

[jen]

This is sad.

Just because a family recieves child care subsidy doesn't mean they are low-life welfare people that are just sitting around collecting a check....and even if they are getting welfare, in addition to their child care subsidy, they are also either working (and making to little to survive without assistance) or are going to school so that they can better themselves and provide for their children. Sure, there are those out there that will fraudulently, or lazily, collect from the system, but I hardly think that the vast majority of families recieveing a child care subsidy are raking in the dough.

In my 14 years as a provider, I have had a few single Moms who recieved a state subsidy. One family was with me for 11 years, and for 7 of them she recieved the child care subsidy. BUT, she also went to work every day, took EXCELLENT care of her children, spent LOTS of quality time with them, and she has worked hard to rise above her circumstances and is now very successful. I was with her every step of the way, cheering her on.....without that subsidy she would have had to stay home and collect welfare....without that subsidy she would not have worked her way up to where she is now, grossing six figures and paying back ALL those tax payer dollars. I have had simliar experiences with my other state paid clients, and I like to think that my non-judgemental, accepting and caring attitude helped them get where they are today.....I do know that each and every on of them appreciated having me in their's and their children's lives.....

So, I hope that those of you who are recieving the child care subsidy don't lose it. I I hope that all of the providers out there who have state paid clients don't lose them either.

That right there!

And, I have no doubt that she will teach her children the value of hard work and education and her kids will make postive contributions as well! Whoot whoo!! I do love it when the system works the way its supposed to!

[Unregistered]

Jealous?

I'm saying we can't afford it. It's a luxury that's just too expensive to foot right now. IMHO the entire thing needs to be scrapped.

Ha ha ha!

Yeah. Let's scrap all types of welfare and assistance to the working poor. The poor people can just suck it up and die, because if they don't have money, they don't deserve to live.

I pray to God that you don't accept CCAP children in your daycare, because if you do, I'm certain that they sense the animosity that you feel towards their very existence.

I'm done discussing anything with you, as you obviously have made up your judgmental mind about something you're unwilling to educate yourself about. There's no point in any continued conversation, because your mind is closed and you refuse to even read the sentences that are right in front of your face.

[nannyde]

This is sad.

Just because a family recieves child care subsidy doesn't mean they are low-life welfare people that are just sitting around collecting a check....and even if they are getting welfare, in addition to their child care subsidy, they are also either working (and making to little to survive without assistance) or are going to school so that they can better themselves and provide for their children. Sure, there are those out there that will fraudulently, or lazily, collect from the system, but I hardly think that the vast majority of families recieveing a child care subsidy are raking in the dough.

In my 14 years as a provider, I have had a few single Moms who recieved a state subsidy. One family was with me for 11 years, and for 7 of them she recieved the child care subsidy. BUT, she also went to work every day, took EXCELLENT care of her children, spent LOTS of quality time with them, and she has worked hard to rise above her circumstances and is now very successful. I was with her every step of the way, cheering her on.....without that subsidy she would have had to stay home and collect welfare....without that subsidy she would not have worked her way up to where she is now, grossing six figures and paying back ALL those tax payer dollars. I have had simliar experiences with my other state paid clients, and I like to think that my non-judgemental, accepting and caring attitude helped them get where they are today.....I do know that each and every on of them appreciated having me in their's and their children's lives.....

So, I hope that those of you who are recieving the child care subsidy don't lose it. I I hope that all of the providers out there who have state paid clients don't lose them either.

Nobody said people receiving assistance made a person a low life. You made that up.

There is a tremendous amount of fraud and undo entitlement to child care assistance. It needs to be RESEARCHED independently to see if the use of the assistance actually improves the financial well being of a family and the parents ability to "repay" the system in their increased earnings because of the assistance.

I have a cousin who has a daughter who has two kids. She had the first one at fifteen. The second one at 21. She is 26 now.

She has used the free child care assistance for the first child for eleven years. She has used the free assistance for the second one for five years. In Iowa you are allowed to "choose" between home care and center care. The difference in rates is about thirty three percent. This Mom choose Center and has been at the same center for all eleven years.

The State paid for her GED.
The State paid for her cosmetology school.
She worked as a hairdresser for about four years but quit because she didn't like it. She took an entry level job for nine bucks an hour and continued to get the free child care for the two kids.
She gets free health insurance for both kids.
She gets food stamps to the tune of 500 a month
She gets to live in my neighborhood in a three bedroom duplex that is about a thousand square foot. Her rent is free.
She is now going BACK for another round of state paid college so she can better herself.
She gets free college
She gets free books
She gets gas mileage back and forth to school.
Her oldest gets free breakfast and lunch at school.
She had WIC for both kids for five years
Now that she's back in free colleget SHE gets free health insurance.

Her day care bill so far is $124,800
Her free breakfast and lunch for the oldest is: 4000
Her free rent at 825 per month is 79,000 just for the past eight years she has been in this duplex
Her food stamps for the last eight years: 38,000
Her WIC was 8000
Her GED classes and exam: 1000
Her first cosmetology school and exam: 2000
Her current college just this last year: 12000

That's $269,700 NOT counting health insurance.

This family of three has cost the State and Federal government over a quarter of a million dollars NOT counting health insurance.

This Febuary she received an $8,000 dollar tax refund.

I asked her in May what she was going to do with all that money and she said "Oh it's gone... I had a tummy tuck".