Minnesota Shutdown Impact

[dEHmom]

(I'm a different unregistered person- my name is Amy)

I realize that 99% of the people on this board hate 'welfare leaches,' etc... because of their own financial problems or stereotypes or whatever attitude they have regarding public assistance...

But without child care assistance, I cannot continue to go to work so that I can pay my rent (which I pay at market rate with my earned wages), pay for food (which I pay for at the grocery store with my earned wages), gas for my car (which I pay for with earned wages in order to get to/from work), or medical insurance for my family (a plan offered through my work that I pay for with my earned wages).

What I'm getting at is that as a single parent, I work hard to provide for my family. I have a pretty good full time job, and it does pay well considering the area we live in, and I *want* to provide for my family on my own. If it were financially possible, I'd be more than happy to pay for child care on my own. Being on child care assistance certainly isn't something I'm proud of - to me, it's a necessity. I am at risk of losing my job because of the government shut down. If my child care center isn't able to work with me regarding payment arrangements (paying about $200/month in addition to my regular copay until I'm paid off), I will be forced to leave my job. And my job isn't something that I can just come back to when the government is back up and running - I'll have to find a new one, which will likely take time.

I do not know anyone who is available to watch my two children during the day. ALL of my friends and family in this area work full time jobs, because of course that would be my first course of action.

So... If I end up losing my job because of this, my family will have no income. That means we can apply for cash, food, medical assistance, and instead of being able to provide those things for my family ON MY OWN, the government (aka taxpayers) can handle it for me. Fan-stinking-tastic. I can't think of ANYONE who would want this. How stupid can politicians be? I can see shutting down child care assistance for people who aren't working - but for people who work and are at risk of losing EVERYTHING, child care IS ESSENTIAL.

Others can be judgmental about my situation until they're blue in the face- but judgment doesn't build anything - and my goal is to build a good life for my family. "You shouldn't have gotten pregnant if you can't afford to raise a child," - no one is perfect. At this point, all I can do is continue to work, continue to provide what I can for my family, and build a successful career so that I will never again need to rely on public assistance of any type.

Hi Amy,
I just want to say, that the comment about not being able to afford to raise a family, and not getting pregnant isn't meant for the people like you. YOU are doing what you need to do to get through tough times in life. No one is judging you, and everyone at some point in life needs help. There is nothing wrong with that.
You sound like a wonderful mother, who is doing what you have to do to raise a great family.

This whole thread is regarding the people who abuse the system. Who don't need it, but use it because it's there and they can.

Congratulations to you for what you are doing for your family, and I wish you the best of luck through these hard times.

[jen]

Amy, I just wanted to lend my support along with DEHmom and wish you and your family well.

[Cat Herder]

Amy,

I think everyone see's the difference between meeting immediate, temporary needs and fullfilling personal wants and ambitions.

I don't know anyone who'd begrudge you.

I do hope you can find another way to get through this with old school methods as Nan suggested.

That is how I did it alone with two kids, as well. It is also how she does it everyday.

Don't let it beat you down, pull together with others in the same boat if you can.

Stay strong and good luck.

[Unregistered- Jackie]

There was a day not so long ago when the idea of paying for day care wasn't even in the mind of the American people. They made it work between each other. They worked opposite shifts and cared for kids when they weren't at work.

My husband and I working work different shifts so we dont have to pay for daycare.

But then we have our next door neighbor who has 2 kids with 2 different dads, gets child support for both. Gets rent assistance, food stamps and pays a whopping 5 dollars every 2 weeks for her daycare. But somehow she can afford to take her kids to 6 flags and is constantly going to concerts...thats what I call abusing the system!

[Unregistered]

Catherder says:
I don't know anyone who'd begrudge you.
Sounds to me like Nan certainly does. How rude and arrogant of her to tell Amy how to live.

[Unregistered- signed out]

Some people on here are suggesting that all the people on assistance band together and watch each others kids and or switch shifts with the dad or another family member to make it work. Has anyone considered that some people are just plain unfit to care for kids on a regular basis and this "banding together to make it work" would cause more issues for the kids than providing them with quality care with appropriate providers?

Also, has anyone with this idea thought about how many people use assistance to pay for care and how many few clients there would be if they all found alternatives to licensed in home care? Maybe YOU don't personally take assistance clients but if the overall daycare population was much slimmer there would in turn be less clients for you- private pay or assistance.

And finally, some people have brought up the baby's dad being on the hook for paying and often weasling out of it. MN does have the law that if you choose to apply and accept assistance you MUST be willing to go along with and support court hearings and the like to get support from the dads. Basically if you need supoprt you must be willing to cooperate with the state to try and find the dad and garnish his wages.

[Unregistered]

Ghpssx

And finally, some people have brought up the baby's dad being on the hook for paying and often weasling out of it. MN does have the law that if you choose to apply and accept assistance you MUST be willing to go along with and support court hearings and the like to get support from the dads. Basically if you need supoprt you must be willing to cooperate with the state to try and find the dad and garnish his wages.

Then how come I have a dcm in care who has a 9 year old and a 4 year old and has found neither father for her children and yet continues to recieve child care assistance. She has had several men tested for each child and not yet come up with biological father(s). She works on and off and yet has continually received FULL COVERAGE for her child care costs since her 10 year old was first enrolled at 6 weeks old. She pays a $2 co-pay on a bi-weekly basis. She receives 70 hours of care for her children bi-weekly also.

So not once but twice she has made poor choices and besides her children, the taxpayers are the only ones who bear the burden for those choices.

Signed,

NOT FAIR AND SICK OF IT!!!

[PeanutsGalore]

Then how come I have a dcm in care who has a 9 year old and a 4 year old and has found neither father for her children and yet continues to recieve child care assistance. She has had several men tested for each child and not yet come up with biological father(s). She works on and off and yet has continually received FULL COVERAGE for her child care costs since her 10 year old was first enrolled at 6 weeks old. She pays a $2 co-pay on a bi-weekly basis. She receives 70 hours of care for her children bi-weekly also.

So not once but twice she has made poor choices and besides her children, the taxpayers are the only ones who bear the burden for those choices.

Signed,

NOT FAIR AND SICK OF IT!!!

You know something? If you don't like the way your client lives her life, then get rid of her. It's rather hypocritical of you to take money from the state for watching her kids when you begrudge the fact that she's doing it as well in order to get daycare/food/a bit of cash/keep a roof over their heads...etc. And that goes for anyone who accepts state clients and then gets ticked off at how they live their lives...if you don't like it, then don't support them by taking the state's money. Period, end of discussion.

I'm not sure what happened to this thread, but based upon the original post, it appeared to be inviting people on state assistance to tell their stories about what would happen to them if daycare assistance went away in the state of MN--in another spot, but still, they came HERE to tell their stories, and they're being attacked for it. Some of you have some really, REALLY good advice about developing a mindset of relying on oneself and only using assistance for what it's there for--temporary help. You impart some words of wisdom about thinking before popping out babies. But the way you deliver your message makes it almost impossible for the people to whom you deliver it to receive it well.

Maybe we can go back to the original topic at hand?

[GretasLittleFriends]

I got the following forwarded to me by my licensor. I figured I would share it here since we have quite a few MN providers here.

Subject: Gov't Shutdown-Child Care Impacts-Story Needed

In preparation for a possible Minnesota state government shutdown, the Minnesota Department of Human Services has contacted families and providers using the Child Care Assistance Program with information about services and payments during a shutdown period. We have posted this information on our website at http://bit.ly/jifqyb.

If you are a parent or child care provider who will be affected by a government shutdown, please contact Chris at [email protected] TODAY (Tuesday) to let Child Care WORKS know what the impact will be on your children, family or child care program. We are collecting stories to include in an affidavit we have been asked to submit to the court currently responding to petitions by Governor Dayton and Attorney General Swanson regarding what services should be maintained during a government shutdown.

Your stories help illustrate potential impacts on the health and safety of Minnesota children should the government shut down on July 1; please be as specific as possible and include your name and email/phone number where we can reach you with any questions. The affidavit is due Wednesday morning, so please send your story to [email protected] today by 4 p.m.

Thank you. We appreciate this extra effort today to communicate that child care is an essential service to Minnesota children and families!

You know something? If you don't like the way your client lives her life, then get rid of her. It's rather hypocritical of you to take money from the state for watching her kids when you begrudge the fact that she's doing it as well in order to get daycare/food/a bit of cash/keep a roof over their heads...etc. And that goes for anyone who accepts state clients and then gets ticked off at how they live their lives...if you don't like it, then don't support them by taking the state's money. Period, end of discussion.

I'm not sure what happened to this thread, but based upon the original post, it appeared to be inviting people on state assistance to tell their stories about what would happen to them if daycare assistance went away in the state of MN--in another spot, but still, they came HERE to tell their stories, and they're being attacked for it. Some of you have some really, REALLY good advice about developing a mindset of relying on oneself and only using assistance for what it's there for--temporary help. You impart some words of wisdom about thinking before popping out babies. But the way you deliver your message makes it almost impossible for the people to whom you deliver it to receive it well.

Maybe we can go back to the original topic at hand?

As the original poster, the reason I started this thread was to inform my fellow providers from Minnesota a way to perhaps have some sway in not losing income.

I have MANY opinions about the public help systems. There, no doubt, are some flaws that should be addressed. From what I understand so many of the public assistance workers are over worked/loaded with cases.

At one point, since I received my license in March 2008, I only had one family who paid out of pocket for everything and didn't use assistance for anything. This was a mother who lived with her boyfriend (child's father). She went to school, days, a few times a week and worked evenings. Her significant other works construction and is often gone away from home. I don't know how they made things work, no doubt they struggled. She didn't qualify for tuition assistance or financial aid because of a problem with her adoption papers. She was adopted from out of country when she was young. She still went to school, paid out of pocket, paid me full wage, etc. She saw what she wanted and found a way to make it happen.

Had the shut-down happened back then I would have been TOTALLY screwed, as I was just starting out, no reputation (good or bad), and 80% of my income was from the state. My husband and I would have struggled, but found a way somehow.

Now, it's another story. I only have one family on assistance. DCM and I have worked out a payment plan for during the shutdown, and it really isn't affecting me.

[Unregistered]

banding together?

In many cities, sharing housing with non family members is a violation of zoning. In many states, childcare assistance is available only for hours worked - either at a paying job or in required community service. Most cities (and many rural areas) have no available public or low income housing. A working mom who loses childcare assistance and who only receives this benefit DOES become eligible for benefits she has paid to provide for everyone in need. Of course she should access them. There is a reason these services are called a safety net. The loss of income from work causes exactly the kind of stress and instability that puts children as all sorts of risk.

Of all virtues I would want my childcare provider to exemplify, respect for persons through charity and kindness is most important. If you, for whatever reason, cannot respect your clients, you should not expose their children to this feeling about the adults they love by keeping them in your care.

The attacks in this forum are based in a naive and careless attitude based on a non existent stereotype.

[Unregistered]

Are you saying you are providing their medical NOW?

Are you receiving child support from their father? If not, is he being prosecuted for that?

Two kids in day care is a HUGE cash subsidy to parents. In the end, it would be cheaper for the tax payers to give you food stamps, medical for your kids, and rent assistance.

It's time to do what my auntie did when she was a young mother. She took care of her friends kids while they worked and they took care of her kids while she worked. They did it for YEARS.

Have you looked into sharing child care between you and another family?

There was a day not so long ago when the idea of paying for day care wasn't even in the mind of the American people. They made it work between each other. They worked opposite shifts and cared for kids when they weren't at work.

Have you thought about moving in with another young family and living really small and sharing child care and expenses?

There are ways to do this but it won't net you a place to live on your own and free time when you are off of your job. When taxpayers are paying for child care THAT'S what they are paying for you. They are paying for the free time you have off after work and your ability to live as a single household.... NOT for the care of the kids. The free care of the kids nets these.

Your response is "do the taxpayers want to have to pay for *** for me instead". My response is: That's not the alternative you should be looking at. You think you are owed that as an alternative. How about the alternative is that YOU make it all happen?

Could the alternative be: Share your home with another family... another young mother or mother and father who have to work to support their kid. YOU share a bedroom with your two kids and give up their bedrooms to a family who can come in and share the rent and the child care work. You live in a small teeny tiny space with your kids and they do too. When one of you goes to work the other cares for ALL the kids. When you cook you cook for EVERYONE and share the advantage of low cost home cooked meals made in bulk. Combine resources so that you don't have to ask for anything. Show us what you are made of instead of showing us what you are saving us.

Live small.... be willing to work while you are not at work. Gather together as a community of friends and family and make it work.

Go old school.... do what our foremothers did... that's complete self reliance. Never stop after the Dad of the kids to do his share in money and CARE of the kids.

Stop telling the taxpayers it could be worse.... take all the "free" out of your head and see if YOU can make it happen on your own. Free child/near free care is not a right. It's a huge luxury that buys you the ability to live as a single family and not have to work on your off times from your job.

Hi! Amy again.

1st - yes, I do provide medical for my family now. The *only* assistance my family receives is CCAP - and I have a $200 copay.

2nd - MN law regulates the apartment size a family (or other group of people) can rent. By law, I am not even allowed to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, because I have two children who are not the same gender that I am. Your suggested lifestyle is illegal by MN rental standards.

3rd - Why do you assume I have leisure time after work? I work a 40 hour week, am a full-time student (which I pay for with a combination of tuition reimbursement from my employer and student loans), and I volunteer one evening every night. I also spend two evenings each week taking my children to their sporting events, which I also volunteer with in order to help with the cost of their participation. That accounts for... ohhh... 5 nights a week. Sounds like I'm a real slacker, eh? Darn those 'welfare' recipients and their desire to work and provide for their families! How DARE they! .

You can approve of my lifestyle or not - but obviously, I'm not going to give up my job because someone on the internet disagreed with me. And actually, no, me being on welfare, food stamps, medical assistance, etc... would be a MUCH greater cost to the taxpayers than just CCAP. CCAP costs the taxpayers approximately $1,000 per month for my family. If I were to be on MFIP (Minnesota's TANF program), I would receive cash in the amount of $530, food stamps in the amount of $550, medical assistance (which costs hundreds per month, unsure of the actual figure), PLUS child care, because MN welfare programs REQUIRE recipients to be actively searching for work 35+ hours per week, and they REQUIRE you to place your child(ren) in child care in order to be at their job search classes at 8am, search for work all day, and report back to the Workforce center again at 4:00. If you add that all up... Child Care would cost $1,200 (remember, I'm unemployed now, and don't have a copay), plus $530, plus $550, plus $600 (a low estimate for medical assistance coverage for family). Oh, and let's not forget housing assistance, which would be about $750. Being on welfare... total cost of... $3,630 per month. Being a productive citizen with a job... $1,000. Let's also not forget that when I am working, I pay taxes, plus my employer pays taxes on my behalf, PLUS I contribute to the economy. Also - during the school year, the state pays NOTHING for CCAP on my family's behalf, because my copay covers the cost of before and after school care.

So taxpayer annual cost of my family on welfare (3630*12) is $43,560

And taxpayer annual cost of me working (1000*3) is $3,000 (minus taxes I pay, which are about $600 federal and $300 state. I also pay approximately $120 per month in FICA), for an annual net taxpayer cost of approximately $660. Yes. Six hundred and sixty dollars.

Do you follow?

You're so right. I should totally quit my job and be on welfare. That's a great idea!

Then I can also drop out of college (even though I graduate in less than a year) while I'm at it. Then I can default on my student loans because I don't have a job, and the taxpayers can cover that for me, too.

I can stay at home with my children, and then when they're at school during the school year, I can sit on my behind at home and eat ice cream and watch soap operas!

Do you understand the benefit to taxpayers for people like me to work and use CCAP? It benefits my family because we have a greater quality of life. It benefits the taxpayers because the net annual taxpayer cost for my family is $660, which is a much greater savings than over $43,000.

Anyways - the point is that without CCAP, I could lose my job, and I could end up needing all of those state programs, which is detrimental to ALL of us.

[nannyde]

2nd - MN law regulates the apartment size a family (or other group of people) can rent. By law, I am not even allowed to rent a 1 bedroom apartment, because I have two children who are not the same gender that I am. Your suggested lifestyle is illegal by MN rental standards.

Could you please show me that law? You pay full rent at market rate??? You are not a a person is living in an apartment where part or all of their rent is covered by Section 8 or HUD?

[Country Kids]

We have a law like that here also. I think though it is only if you are receiving assistance or have foster children. You can only have two children, same gender per room except for the parents.

[jen]

We have a law like that here also. I think though it is only if you are receiving assistance or have foster children. You can only have two children, same gender per room except for the parents.

I am in MN and I'm pretty sure that the law applies to those on Sect 8 or foster care as well...

That said, I don't think Amy needs to justify her lifestyle to anyone.

Supporting people (at least in part) while they get an education is good for EVERYONE. People who graduate from college make significantly more (statistically speaking) then those with no post high school education.

Higher incomes equal mean higher tax base, equals increased home values, equals better public education...

I understand what Nan is saying, it's just a bit simplistic; real life economics are far more complex.

[nannyde]

I understand what Nan is saying, it's just a bit simplistic; real life economics are far more complex.

Oh it's simple all right.

My sister and her husband are facing 20K in college tuition, books, living etc. for their 18 year old. I'm sure they would appreciate 15K a year in cash assistance so she can get the: Higher incomes equal mean higher tax base, equals increased home values, equals better public education...

I get it...

Believe me I get it.

Why not my neice? Why Amy?