Hands Off vs Hands On

[hwichlaz]

I'm noticing that more parents are practicing hands-off parenting. Trying to talk kids into doing what's right instead of physically "helping" the child do it.

ex: Interview time. The child is turning 2 in a couple of weeks. It's time to leave and he doesn't want to put the cars he is playing with away. Mom is trying asking him to put them away, the child is not complying. I take the little car bin over to the child, put it under his hands, and say, "It's time to put the cars away so they will be here when you come back to play with us next week." He doesn't want to and doesn't comply. So I gently press on the back of each hand one at a time so that he drops the car in the bucket while saying, "I know it's hard to clean up when you're having so much fun so I'll help you a little bit." He whines a bit, but then moves on and easily leaves with his parents.

This is a trend I'm noticing. More and more hands-off.

Am I wrong for physically insisting on compliance? I also pick children up and hand them to their parents when they are getting into things at the sign-out table/cubbies at pick up time....while their parents are just asking them to put things back.

[Cat Herder]

It all goes in cycles. Repeat ad nauseum.

"Respect the child" vs "Respect is earned"
"Teach the child" vs "Child lead learning"
Passive supervision" vs "Active supervision"
"Parents know best" vs "Government knows best"

IMHO, it depends. Do what works for you and each child individually. Read the room.

[hwichlaz]

To clarify, I always give the option of complying on their own when it's safe to do so. But when they don't do what's needed I physically help them at those young ages. I feel like it's training. Almost like muscle memory...teacher asks you to put this in the box, and this is how you do it.

At the cubbies I'll help them put the items back that they grabbed, then remind them not to open other children's cubbies...the moment they reach to do it again is when I pick them up and hand them to a parent.

[hwichlaz]

This is totally why people say ridiculous things like, "My child made me late."

My response is usually, "outside of a diaper explosion, a 30 lb person that you can pick up and place in the car does not have the ability to make you late unless you allow it"

[Cat Herder]

To clarify, I always give the option of complying on their own when it's safe to do so. But when they don't do what's needed I physically help them at those young ages. I feel like it's training. Almost like muscle memory...teacher asks you to put this in the box, and this is how you do it.

At the cubbies I'll help them put the items back that they grabbed, then remind them not to open other children's cubbies...the moment they reach to do it again is when I pick them up and hand them to a parent.

Modeling. It is perfectly acceptable.

[hwichlaz]

I know there are times we need to leave them to sit in their refusal too. :: Like when they refuse to put their shoes on and I leave them to sit on the porch and watch us play instead of join in.

[Blackcat31]

If parents are present I will more often than not, direct the parent to do what I want them to do.

During sign out, Little Johnny is digging in other's belongings. Mom asks Johnny to stop touching other people's stuff. Johnny ignores her.

Instead of me saying something or stopping Johnny, I say to the parent "Mom Johnny was told and is not listening. You need to have him stop now."

Then I let the parent do what I told them to do.
I expect parents to parent and I won't parent for them unless I am forced to and then I am not usually very happy about it.

However I also understand how to read the room/group/child/situation and can adapt accordingly but my main goal is getting parents to do what they NEED to do so that I don't have to parent. It's not part of my job description any longer.

[Ariana]

In college we learned that just because you can physically manipulate someone smaller than you doesn't mean that you should. It is basically sending a clear messge that you can touch and control their bodies without their consent and it is not good for their sense of self.

I don't do this with my own kids at all but with daycare kids it depends. The lack of control I have overall in a daycare kids life means that I have to nip behaviors in the bud in a finite amount if time, rather than grooming them with tactics so to speak. I can work with my own kids 24/7 so I know that certain consequences will be followed through and they will end up listening.

I think when parents are around us, they feel judged and may not want to be firm or interact in a punishing way. I think behind closed doors a lot more might be going on. I think that kids who do not listen are the ones that get physically manipulated the most. They come to rely on it rather than their own reasoning.

[MarinaVanessa]

I'm a little of both. I lead with hands-off and give choices first if they don't comply but I'll physically intervene if I have to. I don't like to, but I will.

I'll give them the choice to either clean up or miss out on the next activity but you sometimes get those kiddos that would rather miss out than to clean. It's with them that I may do a hand-to-hand clean up etc. but usually it doesn't get that far.

[CalCare]

In college we learned that just because you can physically manipulate someone smaller than you doesn't mean that you should. It is basically sending a clear messge that you can touch and control their bodies without their consent and it is not good for their sense of self.

Exactly. I Have become hesitant to comment on certain threads - like this one. Because I seem to always get a bad response when I talk about RIE or, really, many generally accepted practices I learned in school. But since you already mentioned it! Yes, this is a body autonomy issue and I keep hands off as much as possible. Now, that's not to say I try to convince kids to comply with something I need them to do. I feel it's just an atmosphere of respect. If Johnny doesn't want to put the trains away, I can wait for a minute. I don't need immediate compliance. But if they really aren't going to do it, I can tell them, "I need you to put the trains in the tub because it's time to go. You don't want to put the trains away" (sometimes they truly just want to be heard, seen, validated). If they dont after a comment like that (me describing the situation), then I offer, "Put the trains in the tub, please, or I will help you put them in"... Wait. Still no response, then at least describe what you are doing to their body when you do it, "I'm going to hold your hand while we put this in now" (as you do it). I have seen RIE practice make miracles happen . I went from boiling with irritation at seemingly disrespectful kids, to really connecting and having mutual respect...

[Mike]

In my babysitting years, I leaned more towards hands-off. Most of my babysitting was sa kids though. Hands-on was usually for urgency or if they needed help with doing something.

[Josiegirl]

I don't want to hi-jack here but what do you do if you have twin 3 yos who will not listen to anything you request of them. My biggest issue is when they're playing and I'm trying to get the other dcks ready for outside time. I'll give them a couple minutes warning that we need to put our toys away in the playroom and get our shoes on in the living room. They will not listen whatsoever. I end up helping them while singing the clean-up song. Sometimes they'll comply. Then when we get to the living room area, they'll either start playing with something else or sit down and read books, ignoring my requests to put shoes on. So I repeat the process of verbal requests, helping them and telling them we're getting ready to go outside and play, reminding them of all the fun things we can do outside. It just feels like such a struggle and if I didn't physically move them sometimes, we'd never get outdoors or do anything besides play with what they want to play with.
So how do you do it?????

[Fiddlesticks]

I think when parents are around us, they feel judged and may not want to be firm or interact in a punishing way.

I think this is the problem in a nutshell. Being firm is not punishment. Discipline is not punishment. If you properly discipline children, you never have to punish them at all. For my own children, I was fairly firm in my expectations, I can only remember punishing my now 21 year old daughter once---her punishment was that she had to pull all the weeds in the planting beds alone on a Saturday, something we all hate to do. The original posters actions were in no way punishing. She was making clear her expectations of behavior in a firm but fair and kind manner. I think the hands-off advice works great for preschool age children, not so much for toddlers.

[CalCare]

I don't want to hi-jack here but what do you do if you have twin 3 yos who will not listen to anything you request of them. My biggest issue is when they're playing and I'm trying to get the other dcks ready for outside time. I'll give them a couple minutes warning that we need to put our toys away in the playroom and get our shoes on in the living room. They will not listen whatsoever. I end up helping them while singing the clean-up song. Sometimes they'll comply. Then when we get to the living room area, they'll either start playing with something else or sit down and read books, ignoring my requests to put shoes on. So I repeat the process of verbal requests, helping them and telling them we're getting ready to go outside and play, reminding them of all the fun things we can do outside. It just feels like such a struggle and if I didn't physically move them sometimes, we'd never get outdoors or do anything besides play with what they want to play with.
So how do you do it?????

What if you leave the playroom mess and get shoes on, go outside. So, you might say, "We are going to leave the playroom mess so the little ones still get the outside time they love. We don't want to miss that! But when we come back, we will still have this mess to clean up. It's going to be during story time. So we will have to hurry and get it clean after lunch or we might end up with no time for books!" Then when the second chance comes (if perhaps they really care about story time), "Let's get this done because it's story time in 10 minutes, we might only get one book, or maybe not even one if we don't hurry!" Something along those lines. Not threatening, but just the facts, we have to get this done and it's going to eat into our good times if we don't. And then, eventually, let the playroom clean-up time eat into something they do care about (since they didn't seem affected by the need to hurry for going outside. RIE practice would probably also suggest having grace and modeling clean-up, helping others, and being flexible. So, I might say, "I am going to help you clean this playroom so we can go outside" not in an irritated way, just matter of fact. And do the main share of the clean up. Also, maybe try to shift your whole view of the situation. Instead of feeling like they have to do what you told them to, they have to comply, they have to do it quickly and move forward with the schedule... Instead of that, maybe you can see these situations as THE SCHEDULE. Like the whole point of your day is to discuss cleaning up together, having grace, thinking about responsibility, deciding for themselves when to go along with a group and when to make their own different choices. It seems so foreign to think like this. Instead of a focus on training and compliance and following your schedule, what if the whole ""curriculum" if you call it that, was more social emotional. All about processing decisions and giving time to think and talking about those decisions. Of course, compliance and body autonomy are considered differently when safety comes into play. I wouldn't say, "when you are ready, I am going to pick you up out of the middle of the street you ran into" you just grab them and run but in most situations, there is no emergency. So why do we want imediate compliance? Just my thoughts. And probably the thoughts of some parents. Or the parents are just not parenting. You can tell the difference! As someone commented above, the ones who are carried and moved and directed constantly are different than the ones who have been taught to think and move for themselves.. You have way more experience than I do, Josiegirl, at family childcare! So maybe I'm a crazy idealist. I have worked with kids for amany years in schools and centers and granted, it's a different ball game when you have even ONE other adult to help! So, I just said all of that in hopes of helping. You know what's best in your own situation and you've done this for many years!

[hwichlaz]

I know that for me, the play room is our everything room so it HAS to be cleaned up every time we change activities, or we don't have room for the next activity. this includes nap and meals, which I can NOT budge on for food police reasons.

I think to give a chance to do it on their own, including simple directions about what to do, then stepping in and adding a little help (bringing the toy bin to the child), and then doing hand over hand to help them while talking to them about it is not teaching them they aren't in control of their own bodies. It's teaching them that there are things that we all HAVE to do even when we don't want to. And the caregiver that's making sure you get your needs met is also making sure you learn this lesson....which is a need. ALL methods need to be moderate. Never touching, never physically picking them up and making them go where they need to go is going to an extreme, just as ALWAYS doing it would be. Showing them when and how they must comply from a young age helps them when they are older. There are times when they do get a choice, those times are when it doesn't affect the whole group...or the people that need to get you into the car and get you home so Miss Heather can stop working for the day. IME children that are parented and cared for consistently with moderate methods fair the best. They learn to bend rather than break. Always give them a chance to do it on their own. Thank them or praise them when they do. If they are the only one affected by their refusal, let them sit and stew in it, . But if the group needs something to be done, then they need to comply, or be helped to comply. It's part of learning not to be self-centered.