To Term or Not to Term, That Is the Question…

[daycare]

...and I was being neither.

If you want my honest opinion I think you need to refresh your idea of what appropriate behavior for a 2 year is and isn't.

Many of your comments in regards to his "annoying" behavior demonstrate your lack of knowledge in regards to developmentally appropriate practices. The expectations need to be realigned.

To teach means finding the KEY (adapting, altering or arranging) to meet the needs for all learning styles.


....and that was not said with any negativity or intent to cause you sadness.

I guess I didn't realize how young the child is. that was a very good point BC

I mostly 3 and 4.5 year olds. I have new guy that just turned two and he does very well in my program, but I also don't expose him to the same things I do the other kids nor do I expect him to do what they can.

are you able to manage something where the other kids can do painting and playdough, while the 2 year old rug plays with toys within his developmental expectations??

[Mummy101]

...and I was being neither.

If you want my honest opinion I think you need to refresh your idea of what appropriate behavior for a 2 year is and isn't.

Many of your comments in regards to his "annoying" behavior demonstrate your lack of knowledge in regards to developmentally appropriate practices. The expectations need to be realigned.

To teach means finding the KEY (adapting, altering or arranging) to meet the needs for all learning styles.


....and that was not said with any negativity or intent to cause you sadness.

Dude, I was giving you a compliment. (Witty- showing or characterized by quick and inventive verbal humor.) It is so hard to ascertain intention and tone via text conversation. My intended tone is playful neutrality.

Thank you and while I appreciate your input, I have already made clear, this is not an issue of age. I am sorry if that type of behavior is a usual occurrence with your little ones, that must be exhausting!

I have never encountered this level of behavior issues from other kiddos and have much for comparison. None of the other children, same age, act this way. It is a matter of compatibility for the group and I wondered if “sticking it out” was appropriate.

How would you feel if this DCK was repeatedly bullying your child and showed no sign of improvement? How would you feel if you were the DCK in questions parent and was repeatedly told DCK had to play separately again today because of the behavior? It is not fair to DCK or the group.
Not all of us are willing to work with this behavior and yay, we don’t have to!!!

[Mummy101]

Maybe a change in direction. How about parenting styles... How does everyone handle permissive parents. Do you allow this behavior to overlap, or nip it in the bud?

My real life example is. "If you stop yelling, I will give you and Oreo." BC, you must see relation to the behavior in this at least?

[daycare]

Maybe a change in direction. How about parenting styles... How does everyone handle permissive parents. Do you allow this behavior to overlap, or nip it in the bud?

My real life example is. "If you stop yelling, I will give you and Oreo." BC, you must see relation to the behavior in this at least?

I bite my tongue every time I hear or see that..
Just the other day at target I heard a mom say, if you stop whining Ill let you get the doll and the dress.??????? WHHHAAAATTTT!!

It does really sound like this child just isn't ready for your group, despite age.

[Blackcat31]

Dude, I was giving you a compliment. (Witty- showing or characterized by quick and inventive verbal humor.) It is so hard to ascertain intention and tone via text conversation. My intended tone is playful neutrality.

Thank you.
I was however, not offended by anything you said or feeling as though I misunderstood you... and trust me I totally understand the difficulty in comprehending intention or tone in written prose....I've been around the block here a time or two.

Thank you and while I appreciate your input, I have already made clear, this is not an issue of age. I am sorry if that type of behavior is a usual occurrence with your little ones, that must be exhausting!

It's not exhausting at all My toddlers do behave for the most part, in a similar way but because my environment and my expectations are appropriate for the age, it's not an issue and it's not exhausting for me at all....

I AM curious though as to how you have concluded that this is not an age issue. (other than your personal experiences).
What exactly has lead you to believe this is not age related? If there is more to the story, please share.
Perhaps I will ultimately see things from your perspective but so far from what you have shared, I DO see these behaviors as age related.

I have never encountered this level of behavior issues from other kiddos and have much for comparison. None of the other children, same age, act this way. It is a matter of compatibility for the group and I wondered if “sticking it out” was appropriate.

Just because you have never encountered such behaviors doesn't mean it's not normal, age appropriate or that it's him.

It just means YOU have never encountered this before.

I am curious though... what is "much" for comparison?
What is your experience in early childhood?

How would you feel if this DCK was repeatedly bullying your child and showed no sign of improvement?

Is it YOUR child he is "bullying"?

I honestly don't feel that is an appropriate description for his behaviors as he first needs to understand and have mastered certain skills in order to know how to be a bully to others. Perspective thinking isn't something he has an experience with so bullying is probably not the correct term here.

If it were MY child, I would want to know what the provider is doing to curb or eliminate the behaviors toward my child but I would not place blame on the child themselves but instead look to the environment (including the caregiver/teacher) as to the root or cause of the behavior.

How would you feel if you were the DCK in questions parent and was repeatedly told DCK had to play separately again today because of the behavior?

If I were the DCB's parent and was repeated told my child again had to play separately, I'd be utilizing my lunch hour and any other free time I had to find alternate care for my child. I would simply assume that your program and my child are not a good fit. NOT that either is faulty...just not good together.

It is not fair to DCK or the group.
Not all of us are willing to work with this behavior and yay, we don’t have to!!!

Nope we definitely don't have to so if you feel this child does not meet YOUR expectations of what a 2 year old is, then by all means terminate.

It would probably be in his best interest.

[Mummy101]

I guess I didn't realize how young the child is. that was a very good point BC

I mostly 3 and 4.5 year olds. I have new guy that just turned two and he does very well in my program, but I also don't expose him to the same things I do the other kids nor do I expect him to do what they can.

are you able to manage something where the other kids can do painting and playdough, while the 2 year old rug plays with toys within his developmental expectations??

All my other 2.5s play well with playdough, paint, color and participate in group activities to their ability. I am obviously not sitting them down to do algebra problems. :: It is perfectly reasonable and developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5yo to experiment with paint, dirt, bubbles, the works! They learn through exposure. Even my one-year old paints! DCK would not be “willing” to play on the floor while the other children participated. Do you exclude willing participants? I do when it goes in the mouth. In this business, (for most of us) compatibility is EVERYTHING. I agree with previous statements. DCK needs a different environment. One with multiple teachers; a center.

[Blackcat31]

My real life example is. "If you stop yelling, I will give you and Oreo." BC, you must see relation to the behavior in this at least?

I do see the relation.....but THAT is the key.

Parents can parent in whatever manner they choose to parent and the result is they reap what they sew.

The same is applicable to you.

The environment and the expectations set the child up for failure or success.
The best part is YOU get to decide which of those behaviors you want to encourage or discourage.

I have A LOT of parents that don't parent, permissively parent, helicopter parent and do all sorts of things that make me roll my eyes (hopefully not outloud ) but I impact the child's behaviors here by the rules, expectations and physical set up of my environment REGARDLESS of parenting style at home. (of course there will always be exceptions but 99% of the kids I have are parented vastly different at home yet display different behaviors here).

"If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo...."

translates to:

If you do X, you will get Y. That works in positive ways too! You just have to be 2 steps ahead of him. We all get from Point A to Point B but the roads we take to get there are all different and not everyone travels the freeway.
Some take the roads less traveled.


Here is a personal example I have shared numerous times (so I'll give the Cliff Note's version):

I have 2 children of my own.

When entering a store I told my daughter if she behaved and followed the rules she could earn $1 to spend upon checking out at the end of our shopping excursion. She understood and complied with that version of "If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo" Easy peasy.


My son was given the same rules and expectations. He would usually lose the reward within 3 minutes of entering the store. Then I figured out the issue. I was expecting him to travel from A to B in the same manner as my daughter. MISTAKE.

So I tried another approach but with the same expectations and outcome.

Upon entering the store I gave my son 10 dimes. I told him each time I had to redirect him or remind him of the rules he would have to give me a dime. Then and only IF he had enough money left at the check out he could buy a reward.

So in BOTH cases I achieved the same results but did so completely differently.

There is a saying I learned very early on in my journey towards early childhood education......(however let me preface it by saying I am NOT saying this to YOU, just that it helped me understand how to change my thought process when it came to teaching, directing, redirecting an educating kids)

This statement made HUGE impact in how I not only operate my business but in how I teach the children in my care and manage challenging behaviors.

[daycare]

All my other 2.5s play well with playdough, paint, color and participate in group activities to their ability. I am obviously not sitting them down to do algebra problems. :: It is perfectly reasonable and developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5yo to experiment with paint, dirt, bubbles, the works! They learn through exposure. Even my one-year old paints! DCK would not be “willing” to play on the floor while the other children participated. Do you exclude willing participants? I do when it goes in the mouth. In this business, (for most of us) compatibility is EVERYTHING. I agree with previous statements. DCK needs a different environment. One with multiple teachers; a center.

I agree that it is developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5 year old to experiment with everything, but some just can't. I have that kid now. so instead I just give him his own play space, but looks like you already tried that and it didn't work.

I am starting to see more and more kids that don't want to paint, get dirty, experiment and etc. Wonder if the video game/ipad has something to do with this. Parents don't expose them to other things so they don't know how to play or participate in anyway. I have a 4 year old that is like this right now. But it's not his fault that he has not been provided opportunities to learn these things, it is the parents.


I think you know what you want to do and also agree sounds like a different environment with more adults is what this kid needs.

[Mummy101]

Thank you.
I was however, not offended by anything you said or feeling as though I misunderstood you... and trust me I totally understand the difficulty in comprehending intention or tone in written prose....I've been around the block here a time or two.




It's not exhausting at all My toddlers do behave for the most part, in a similar way but because my environment and my expectations are appropriate for the age, it's not an issue and it's not exhausting for me at all....

I AM curious though as to how you have concluded that this is not an age issue. (other than your personal experiences).
What exactly has lead you to believe this is not age related? If there is more to the story, please share.
Perhaps I will ultimately see things from your perspective but so far from what you have shared, I DO see these behaviors as age related.



Just because you have never encountered such behaviors doesn't mean it's not normal, age appropriate or that it's him.

It just means YOU have never encountered this before.

I am curious though... what is "much" for comparison?
What is your experience in early childhood?



Is it YOUR child he is "bullying"?

I honestly don't feel that is an appropriate description for his behaviors as he first needs to understand and have mastered certain skills in order to know how to be a bully to others. Perspective thinking isn't something he has an experience with so bullying is probably not the correct term here.

If it were MY child, I would want to know what the provider is doing to curb or eliminate the behaviors toward my child but I would not place blame on the child themselves but instead look to the environment (including the caregiver/teacher) as to the root or cause of the behavior.



If I were the DCB's parent and was repeated told my child again had to play separately, I'd be utilizing my lunch hour and any other free time I had to find alternate care for my child. I would simply assume that your program and my child are not a good fit. NOT that either is faulty...just not good together.



Nope we definitely don't have to so if you feel this child does not meet YOUR expectations of what a 2 year old is, then by all means terminate.

It would probably be in his best interest.

Nine years family center, 7 years Mom x3. Let me guess, yours is more… and you will tell us all about it. (That was me being catty. Sarcastically of course)

Not my kids, they walk away. To bully implies intent, yes. DCK is certainly able to be held accountable for actions at this age. DCK is not corrected at home.

I definitely agree with and respect your point. Some two and a half year olds do act this way. However, “refreshing my idea of typical behavior” will not change the fact that the behavior is driving everyone bananas. Kiddo needs a center where DCK won’t become excluded. The DCKs just being two (and a half) cliché’ does not suit this circumstance. I want DCK to get the best care possible and I don’t think my place is it anymore. A fit we are not.

[Mummy101]

I agree that it is developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5 year old to experiment with everything, but some just can't. I have that kid now. so instead I just give him his own play space, but looks like you already tried that and it didn't work.

I am starting to see more and more kids that don't want to paint, get dirty, experiment and etc. Wonder if the video game/ipad has something to do with this. Parents don't expose them to other things so they don't know how to play or participate in anyway. I have a 4 year old that is like this right now. But it's not his fault that he has not been provided opportunities to learn these things, it is the parents.


I think you know what you want to do and also agree sounds like a different environment with more adults is what this kid needs.

That is a very insightful point. Generations are certainly shifting in focus! TV has become an activity.

[Mummy101]

I do see the relation.....but THAT is the key.

Parents can parent in whatever manner they choose to parent and the result is they reap what they sew.

The same is applicable to you.

The environment and the expectations set the child up for failure or success.
The best part is YOU get to decide which of those behaviors you want to encourage or discourage.

I have A LOT of parents that don't parent, permissively parent, helicopter parent and do all sorts of things that make me roll my eyes (hopefully not outloud ) but I impact the child's behaviors here by the rules, expectations and physical set up of my environment REGARDLESS of parenting style at home. (of course there will always be exceptions but 99% of the kids I have are parented vastly different at home yet display different behaviors here).

"If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo...."

translates to:

If you do X, you will get Y. That works in positive ways too! You just have to be 2 steps ahead of him. We all get from Point A to Point B but the roads we take to get there are all different and not everyone travels the freeway.
Some take the roads less traveled.


Here is a personal example I have shared numerous times (so I'll give the Cliff Note's version):

I have 2 children of my own.

When entering a store I told my daughter if she behaved and followed the rules she could earn $1 to spend upon checking out at the end of our shopping excursion. She understood and complied with that version of "If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo" Easy peasy.


My son was given the same rules and expectations. He would usually lose the reward within 3 minutes of entering the store. Then I figured out the issue. I was expecting him to travel from A to B in the same manner as my daughter. MISTAKE.

So I tried another approach but with the same expectations and outcome.

Upon entering the store I gave my son 10 dimes. I told him each time I had to redirect him or remind him of the rules he would have to give me a dime. Then and only IF he had enough money left at the check out he could buy a reward.

So in BOTH cases I achieved the same results but did so completely differently.

There is a saying I learned very early on in my journey towards early childhood education......(however let me preface it by saying I am NOT saying this to YOU, just that it helped me understand how to change my thought process when it came to teaching, directing, redirecting an educating kids)

This statement made HUGE impact in how I not only operate my business but in how I teach the children in my care and manage challenging behaviors.

Yes, you definitely seem firm and confident! That is paramount. I need to cultivate that in working with the parents.

[Annalee]

Yes, you definitely seem firm and confident! That is paramount. I need to cultivate that in working with the parents.

There is a professional way to be firm and confident. I have found this persona with a non-negotiable approach reaps great dividends. Every time I have tried to "bend" in the name of being "nice" it comes back to bite me. Saying what I mean and meaning what I say works better. Not saying I have mastered this but after 25 years in FCC, I am much better at it!

[Mummy101]

There is a professional way to be firm and confident. I have found this persona with a non-negotiable approach reaps great dividends. Every time I have tried to "bend" in the name of being "nice" it comes back to bite me. Saying what I mean and meaning what I say works better. Not saying I have mastered this but after 25 years in FCC, I am much better at it!

lovethis I can't wait to reach that point. I truly admire those of you with a backbone!

[Blackcat31]

Nine years family center, 7 years Mom x3. Let me guess, yours is more… and you will tell us all about it. (That was me being catty. Sarcastically of course)

No, I am not going to tell you all about it.

I am not the one asking for advice.

Not my kids, they walk away. To bully implies intent, yes. DCK is certainly able to be held accountable for actions at this age. DCK is not corrected at home.

I agree that he is able to be held accountable for his actions but only those he knows/understands and is able to comprehend.

Do you believe DCB's behavior is solely dependent on the fact that he's not corrected at home?

I definitely agree with and respect your point. Some two and a half year olds do act this way. However, “refreshing my idea of typical behavior” will not change the fact that the behavior is driving everyone bananas. Kiddo needs a center where DCK won’t become excluded. The DCKs just being two (and a half) cliché’ does not suit this circumstance. I want DCK to get the best care possible and I don’t think my place is it anymore. A fit we are not.

I suggested you refresh your knowledge of appropriate behaviors for this age. Not your idea of typical behaviors.

However, my point was, his behavior IS appropriate for his age. Not necessarily typical but appropriate nonetheless.

[Josiegirl]

It boils down to the fact that this particular child is a handful, you have much better days without him there, and every post here from you, indicates you want and need to let him go. There is nothing wrong with that. Let go of the guilt, tell dcm/dcd you believe he would do much better within a different group. Dcb will do fine, dcf will find a better fit and you will have more peaceful days. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Looking back there are several kiddos I should've taken that path with but I'm always second guessing myself, my methods, etc. So I've held onto them. They change and evolve as they age/mature. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes not. If the dcps and you are not in line with each other, it makes it that much more difficult to create a united front. It can work but it may be more difficult.

Wishing you best of luck with your little guy!!