Total Change In Behavior - Daycare Can't Cope

[RIWorkingMom]

My 21 month old DD has been going to the same daycare since she was 7 months old. She has been well-behaved until recently. It just so happens that at the same time she started to misbehave the daycare took in two new babies, 4 months and 7 months old. Prior to this DD was the baby for over a year. She is the baby at home, and her brother is 11 years older.

Now DD throws herself back on the floor and has full on temper tantrums. The daycare has said that they have caught her biting herself, and she has even hit the daycare provider. When I drop her off, when another kid has a toy or book that she wants, or when she changes an activity she cries really loud, goes limp, or throws herself backwards on the floor. She also takes toys from the babies, and has a hard time sharing.

She does not have a problem focusing. She can be at her puzzles for hours, and she loves sitting down for a story, but it appears that when the other babies are getting attention, or she has to go from one activity to the other, or she can’t have what she wants she loses it! The daycare provider keeps telling me that this is not normal (something every parent wants to hear, right?)

DD tried throwing these tantrums at home, and I put DD in her room and left her alone to calm down. I told her I understand she is upset, but I cannot help her when she acts like this. When she calmed down, I picked her up and told her I understand that she has very big feelings and that things can be tough, but I can only help her when she is calm. I then try to predict how she feels, and ask questions: “Are you tired”, “Hungry”, “Frustrated”, or “Do you need help”. Then I tell her that she needs to ask. She is getting better at asking and these tantrums almost never happen anymore. The only time I witness these is when I drop her off at daycare.

The daycare tells me that she is being punished 3+ times a day. I took her to the Dr. for a behavior appointment. The doctor thinks it is jealousy, and that she is acting out for attention. She said that my daughter is at the age when parents usually have a second baby, and that this is normal reaction to the new situation. She recommended that I tell the daycare how I handle it and recommend they do the same. My daughter used to love going there, and now she freaks out when I drop her off. The woman at the daycare (who has only been open for 2 ½ years) keeps telling me that my daughter is not normal, and has even asked for a copy of the doctor’s report. She says none of her other kids acted this way. (They are both 6 months older than my DD, and were about a year when my DD came in) I don’t know what to do. My DD is having a tough time with the change, and I don’t want to shuffle her around from daycare to daycare. Help!

[Cat Herder]

she has even hit the daycare provider. - This is not appropriate behavior.

she cries really loud, goes limp, or throws herself backwards on the floor. She also takes toys from the babies, and has a hard time sharing. This is expected behavior.

she can’t have what she wants she loses it! The daycare provider keeps telling me that this is not normal This is expected behavior, but unacceptable in group care.

DD tried throwing these tantrums at home, and I put DD in her room and left her alone to calm down. This is illegal in daycare.

these tantrums almost never happen anymore. The only time I witness these is when I drop her off at daycare. The two environments are not comparable, so this information is irrelevant to the provider who is responsible for the safety of a group of children.

The daycare tells me that she is being punished 3+ times a day. They are telling you to start looking for another child care solution.

The doctor thinks it is jealousy, and that she is acting out for attention. She recommended that I tell the daycare how I handle it and recommend they do the same.How many years has the doctor worked in group child care?

The woman at the daycare (who has only been open for 2 ½ years) keeps telling me that my daughter is not normal, and has even asked for a copy of the doctor’s report. She says none of her other kids acted this way. Minimizing how long she has worked in childcare will not change the fact that these behaviors are not manageable in group childcare. I believe she is telling you the extreme nature of her behaviors and the effects on the other children are not "normal" in her view, not your daughter, herself.

I don’t want to shuffle her around from daycare to daycare.

Unfortunately, I don't see another option at this time.

Your daughter is telling you that mixed age care is not for her. That is ok. There are as many types of daycare as there are many types of children.

Your daughter will most likely greatly benefit from being in a larger group of same aged children, instead.

A change of environment is exactly what I'd recommend to you as your provider in this scenario. I have been in business, successfully, 23 years, now. It is not you, it is not the provider, it is simply the environment and mismatched needs.

[Blackcat31]

The reply from Cat Herder is spot on.

Behavior is a way of communication and your DD is communicating with you in regards to her needs.

I understand not wanting to move her around from care to care but sometimes a change in environment is exactly what is needed to prevent certain normal behaviors from being a safety issue for others and an emotional issue for your DD.

Her needs are not being met. NOT because the provider is newish but because your DD isn't ready for or simply does not thrive in group care. Especially when she is used to being the youngest.

[daycarediva]

Unfortunately, I don't see another option at this time.

Your daughter is telling you that mixed age care is not for her. That is ok. There are as many types of daycare as there are many types of children.

Your daughter will most likely greatly benefit from being in a larger group of same aged children, instead.

A change of environment is exactly what I'd recommend to you as your provider in this scenario. I have been in business, successfully, 23 years, now. It is not you, it is not the provider, it is simply the environment and mismatched needs.

I agree with cat's responses to you.

I suggest you find a nursery school, a center that has a 2-3 year room, or a provider who only accepts children 2+.

[RIWorkingMom]

I directly asked the daycare if she was asking me if I needed to start looking for another daycare. She said no. I cannot afford any other type of daycare. I am above the poverty line, but barely. I have to pay full price and when a home daycare is half my paycheck, and the type of daycare you are talking about is 90% of my paycheck I have no choice. If I have to start looking for another daycare, it is going to have to be the same type of daycare. They are cheaper.

Also, the hitting is not a balled up fist type of hit, but more of a waving the hands as if to say get away. When she is in the middle of a tantrum, she doesn't want to be touched. I don't know how to describe it. The doctor recommended that the daycare put her in the port-a-crib until she calms down. (which is not against the law) She does calm down after a few minutes. She asked for the doctors report, which I thought was weird. It feels like she doesn't believe me. The doctor said this is a phase, and she said with the correct response, will go away, but if she has to go through constant big changes, she is going to be traumatized. I don't want to do that to my daughter. She loves the daycare provider. This is jealousy and nothing more. It started on day one. Every time the provider picked up the baby, my DD started crying. That lasted for a week. Then she went through a sleep regression, and we worked together to correct that. It lasted two weeks. This has only been going on for two weeks. When she tells me it is not normal, she says she has never seen a child throw a tantrum ever, and that no one else she knows that has kids or has a daycare has ever seen a kid throw a tantrum. That is hard to believe because I have seen plenty of kids throw tantrums in public. Also, my daughter threw a tantrum at the doctor's office when the woman she associates with shots tried to put her on the scale. They said they have seen this so many times before. I am getting frustrated that the daycare is viewing this as so abnormal and telling basically saying my kid needs therapy. When I tried to find a therapist, I am told that this is completely normal for this situation and that she will adjust. I just need the daycare to work with me. It breaks my heart that someone that has been so close to my daughter would be willing to throw her away. What type of complex will that give children. 14 months of perfect behavior thrown away because she is jealous?

[laundrymom]

Listen to Blackcat. She speaks from experience wisdom and love for all children. It's hard to say, this isn't working anymore, when it had been for so long. But the best interests of the child are always the first concern in our hearts.

[LysesKids]

I have to agree with CH also...

[daycarediva]

Why would you want to keep your child with a woman who believes her behavior to be abnormal and it not working with you to address this?

I would not be able to separate her in a pack and play either.

Tantrums that are THAT severe are HUGELY disruptive to the group, and I speak from experience- they are NOT manageable long term. The fact that your provider is asking for a pediatrician eval tells me that she is in over her head and it is only a matter of time until you are looking for alternate care.

Please call home daycares, I run a 18m-5y program and have similar rates as birth-5 programs. Call centers to see if they offer sliding scale. I get that price is a concern, but it should never sacrifice your child's well being and happiness for a few dollars.

[LysesKids]

I directly asked the daycare if she was asking me if I needed to start looking for another daycare. She said no. I cannot afford any other type of daycare. I am above the poverty line, but barely. I have to pay full price and when a home daycare is half my paycheck, and the type of daycare you are talking about is 90% of my paycheck I have no choice. If I have to start looking for another daycare, it is going to have to be the same type of daycare. They are cheaper.

Also, the hitting is not a balled up fist type of hit, but more of a waving the hands as if to say get away. When she is in the middle of a tantrum, she doesn't want to be touched. I don't know how to describe it. The doctor recommended that the daycare put her in the port-a-crib until she calms down. (which is not against the law) She does calm down after a few minutes. She asked for the doctors report, which I thought was weird. It feels like she doesn't believe me. The doctor said this is a phase, and she said with the correct response, will go away, but if she has to go through constant big changes, she is going to be traumatized. I don't want to do that to my daughter. She loves the daycare provider. This is jealousy and nothing more. It started on day one. Every time the provider picked up the baby, my DD started crying. That lasted for a week. Then she went through a sleep regression, and we worked together to correct that. It lasted two weeks. This has only been going on for two weeks. When she tells me it is not normal, she says she has never seen a child throw a tantrum ever, and that no one else she knows that has kids or has a daycare has ever seen a kid throw a tantrum. That is hard to believe because I have seen plenty of kids throw tantrums in public. Also, my daughter threw a tantrum at the doctor's office when the woman she associates with shots tried to put her on the scale. They said they have seen this so many times before. I am getting frustrated that the daycare is viewing this as so abnormal and telling basically saying my kid needs therapy. When I tried to find a therapist, I am told that this is completely normal for this situation and that she will adjust. I just need the daycare to work with me. It breaks my heart that someone that has been so close to my daughter would be willing to throw her away. What type of complex will that give children. 14 months of perfect behavior thrown away because she is jealous?

Something you have to understand is our childcare homes are also small businesses; we offer a service & have to work things in a way that is best for the group... to put so much effort into one child takes away the care from others that are also paying clients & it's not conducive to the atmosphere most providers try to keep. Sometimes change is needed.

[Blackcat31]

I directly asked the daycare if she was asking me if I needed to start looking for another daycare. She said no. I cannot afford any other type of daycare. I am above the poverty line, but barely. I have to pay full price and when a home daycare is half my paycheck, and the type of daycare you are talking about is 90% of my paycheck I have no choice. If I have to start looking for another daycare, it is going to have to be the same type of daycare. They are cheaper.

Your child HAS to come first. Before your paycheck etc.

I understand the money issue. I do. I've gone without because of financial situations but sadly sometimes you have to make that choice. It's just part of parenting. It's part of being an adult in general I guess. Sucks but doesnt change it.

Also, the hitting is not a balled up fist type of hit, but more of a waving the hands as if to say get away. When she is in the middle of a tantrum, she doesn't want to be touched. I don't know how to describe it.

Please don't minimize it. She is behaving aggressively towards the person in charge. She is SHOWING a dislike of that authority. Balled up fist, slap or just a lunge....the concept is the same. She is hitting. period.

The doctor recommended that the daycare put her in the port-a-crib until she calms down. (which is not against the law) She does calm down after a few minutes.

I do not have port-a-cribs or PNP's for a nearly 2 yr old. State licensing regulations also do not allow me to separate a child her age in ANY type of containment equipment or separate her from others in general so what may not be against the law, it still may be against either licensing regulations or even the providers caregiving philosophy in general.

She asked for the doctors report, which I thought was weird. It feels like she doesn't believe me. The doctor said this is a phase, and she said with the correct response, will go away, but if she has to go through constant big changes, she is going to be traumatized.

I've been in this field for 25+ yrs. Dr's will tell parents whatever they want to hear. Not saying that is the case for you but the Dr isn't the one providing the care. The Dr isn't the one dealing with it. The Dr doesn't get to advise the provider HOW to do her job any more than the provider gets to tell the Dr what meds to prescribe or how to treat their patients.

I also ask for Dr's reports because parents either misinterpret what is being said, the Dr does or its simply not true. I ALWAYS ask for the written Dr report. It covers my butt when things that start out tough end badly.


I don't want to do that to my daughter. She loves the daycare provider. This is jealousy and nothing more.

It probably IS jealousy but what do you want your provider to do about that when she care for MULTIPLE kids?

Do not make YOUR child's individual behavior, the responsibility of the provider. Her job is to do what's best for the GROUP of kids she has NOT just one.

The provider CAN NOT give your DD what she wants just because your DD wants it when she wants it. Don't insist the world change for your DD. Teach your DD to adapt to the world instead. It will make her road to adulthood must easier and more pleasant.

It started on day one. Every time the provider picked up the baby, my DD started crying. That lasted for a week. Then she went through a sleep regression, and we worked together to correct that. It lasted two weeks. This has only been going on for two weeks. When she tells me it is not normal, she says she has never seen a child throw a tantrum ever, and that no one else she knows that has kids or has a daycare has ever seen a kid throw a tantrum. That is hard to believe because I have seen plenty of kids throw tantrums in public. Also, my daughter threw a tantrum at the doctor's office when the woman she associates with shots tried to put her on the scale. They said they have seen this so many times before. I am getting frustrated that the daycare is viewing this as so abnormal and telling basically saying my kid needs therapy.


Being that the provider is newish, she may not view this as normal. To her is IS NOT normal. Even if she says it is, it doesn't change the fact that she is telling you she cannot manage it.

She might not tell you to leave (no one wants to terminate care) but she might be doing what she is doing in an attempt to get you to leave (easier if a parent does the terming) so asking her outright isn't a guarantee that you get an honest answer.


When I tried to find a therapist, I am told that this is completely normal for this situation and that she will adjust. I just need the daycare to work with me. It breaks my heart that someone that has been so close to my daughter would be willing to throw her away. What type of complex will that give children. 14 months of perfect behavior thrown away because she is jealous?

I replied in bold about as well.

Your provider isn't throwing her away. :confused:

Your provider telling you she can't manage it is no different than you saying you cant afford to make changes FOR your daughter. YOUR choice isn't throwing her way is it? See? The provider isn't throwing her away.

This is YOUR child so YOU have to be the one that does the work. YOU have to do whats best for YOUR child and if this specific provider can't deal with her any longer that's YOUR situation to deal with NOT the provider's.

That does NOT mean the provider doesn't care for or love your child. Love means doing whats best for the child not what's best for you (both YOU and the provider).

I have termed kids I cared deeply for in the past. NOT because I stopped caring about them. But because I DO care about them. I've also termed because things just weren't working out.

LOVE has NOTHING to do with business.

[RIWorkingMom]

I understand they are small businesses. I started talking to other parents that have left to see where they went. Apparently, the woman at the daycare said the same thing to them. Their kid isn't normal. No other kid acts this way. How many kids can be abnormal? Other home day cares have not had issues with their kids the way she did, and they put them in a similar environment. Thanks for encouraging me to look into other providers. It shed some unexpected light on the situation. I thought I was the only one she was talking to like this. I guess it is time to change daycare.

[RIWorkingMom]

I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.

[Blackcat31]

I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.

I am not trying to minimize your situation but welcome to the world of working parents.

Many providers are in this profession because their budget looks just like yours. I used to work in the outside world.

I used to make 10X what I earn now but then I had kids and my kid didn't do well in group care so I had to quit my job and take care of my child. This eliminated gas, the need for a second car, insurance and all the work related expenses I had in connection to working outside the home.

I started providing care for my child and other children so that I could still contribute to our family. Once my child grew old enough to no longer need care, I couldn't just quit daycare and go back to work....I'd invested too much (time and money) into daycare so I stayed.

This was NOT where I planned to be at this stage in my life/career. FAR from it but I did what I had to do and gave up my dream of being an attorney and instead am a LONG time child care provider with a degree in early childhood instead of law.

.... because as a parent; I did what I had to do.

I know that doesn't change or fix things for you but for lack of a better way to say it, your story is SO MUCH MORE COMMON than you think. If you don't like living pay check to pay check and feel the cost of child care is too much that your choices are limited you need to contact your state's legislature and voice your story.

Child care is not a charity and most of us make far less income than the families we serve so your state representative and legislators are the ones that have the power to change things.

I wish you luck and truly hope you are able to find a positive resolution to this issue without making your DD, yourself or the provider out to be the bad guy.

I'd start here when searching for alternate care arrangements: https://www.daycare.com/rhodeisland/

[RIWorkingMom]

I wish you luck and truly hope you are able to find a positive resolution to this issue without making your DD, yourself or the provider out to be the bad guy.

I'd start here when searching for alternate care arrangements: https://www.daycare.com/rhodeisland/

Like I said I already started looking. I reached out to other parent's that have left, and it is hard to not make the provider the bad guy when she has treated so many other kids the same way. I didn't know. I only have their numbers from group texts. We never really spoke before. When taking care of someone else's kids, you have to remember you are their care provider, almost a second family. They are too young for anything else. If you can't treat them with love and understanding in what can be a challenging time in their life, you shouldn't be in the business. If it was just me, then fine, I understand, my kid is tough. If the other kids weren't successful in similar environments, then fine the environment needs to change. You never know what happens behind closed doors. One parent told me he caught her giving his dd a "pow pow" before putting her in the corner. I do not condone hitting. End of story. Time to take a leave from work and get her out of there.

[Baby Beluga]

I haven't read through all of the responses yet, but the part about the provider throwing away your child really stuck out.

I see it as the opposite.

The provider is listening to your child and it seems like she is trying to get you to listen to your child as well.

Behavior is always a form of communication. This situation is not your fault, it's not your child's fault and it's not your provider's fault. It (as Cat said above) simply not a good fit.

It's like jeans. If the jeans don't fit you do you fault the store, the manufactuer or the jeans themselves? No. You try on another pair of jeans until they fit properly.

Best of luck with your childcare search :hug: