Total Change In Behavior - Daycare Can't Cope

[RIWorkingMom]

Soooo...then you would likely qualify for state assistance. There are tons of financial help for familes between 100% and 133% of poverty level.

I do not qualify assistance, because we make just over the threshold. Believe me I looked into this

If she's only been in business 2.5 years, how does she have so many parents who have left?

That is a good question. Why would this perfect daycare provider have such a big turn over rate, and why is all toddlers and none of the infants?

[CityGarden]

I am curious what home day cares charge in your state. The lowest end in RI that I could find was $175 a week per kid. Facilities are $275 - $375 per week. Did you know that making $14.00/hr for a family of three means you have to pay full price in RI?

I just want to break this down for you guys who think I'm refusing to give up luxuries here. It's not like that.
$14.00/hr full time is roughly 1600 a month after tax.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apt in RI is $1,000/month if you are lucky. And that is in a not so great neighborhood.

Now let's throw in $500/month for student loans, and we have $100/month left over! Woah! Not good. That doesn't pay for gas, electric, clothes, car insurance and so many other necessities.

Thank goodness we have a second income of 1400/month. Now just over half of that goes to daycare (175/wk and that is cheap here!).

This leaves us with 775 for the month. (the 100 from the first paycheck, and the 675 remaining from the other paycheck.)

Now we cannot live off of the 100/month for gas groceries etc., but the second income can help pay for those things.

Now we barely make it. We don't go out to eat. We shop at grocery stores like save-a-lot or price-right where the food is never fresh and often questionable. Our cars are over 10 years old and probably wont last much longer. We don't qualify for any assistance because we make too much.

If we went from paying $175 to paying $275 a month we would have 400/month for gas, groceries, utilities and clothes.

It's not that I am not willing to sacrifice for my daughter. It's that we cannot afford to.

Children are expensive.... what are you doing to change your income? I am not saying that to be rude but it's a reality. Maybe you need a new career. I live in a very high COL area so sharing rates from the other side of the country won't be helpful to you.

I will say that children don't stop being expensive...

There was a recent thread on childcare and cost here: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38526

[RIWorkingMom]

Ok, I'm really going to be the bad guy and say this-

some behaviors that parents describe as normal are NOT normal. I have had 'temper tantrums' (described by parent) that reminded me of something out of the exorcist. It could have been escalated by this situation (jealousy of new infants) and now be SO extreme the provider wants to cover her butt by getting a dr involved.

I've seen autism, SPD/SID, ADHD, ODD, and learning disabilities WELL before a parent has.

My 13 yr is just below the autism spectrum, and I noticed the signs first. This is different. This started day one of the new infant arrival. I offered to bring her to the doctor's the first day that she mentioned it because I wanted to work with her. She didn't ask. I offered. I offered because I knew that catching it early can help a child get through school, and deal with life. We put my son in a special school. I demanded that he see a psychiatrist. My mother has a psych degree from Cornell. She sees this as typical 2 yr old behavior as well. The doctor also witnessed a "tantrum" at the office. My daughter is afraid of the nurse whom she used to adore seeing. Then after receiving a few rounds of shots, my daughter became terrified of her. She attempted to guide her to the scale, and my daughter went limp on the floor and started whining. Not crying, not throwing herself around or thrashing or hit anyone. Not like anything out of the exorcist. She was scared and started to cry. That is it. The doctor witnessed it and said that was normal. She has an emotion she didn't know how to cope with and she cried. Maybe I made her sound more harsh than the situation is. I know what not normal looks like. I also know what a normal tantrum looks like. You guys are right, she is no longer comfortable there and this isn't a good fit. I called another daycare, and explained the situation. She laughed it off and she said there are just some kids who don't transition well (changing from the infant room to toddler room or going from playing outside to coming in for a nap) They said they have methods or easing these children into new situations that happen to be a good fit.

[Ariana]

Children are expensive. Yep! Knew that before I had them.

You prefer the Drs advice over the childcare providers advice so switch providers or stay at home and take in kids like we all did. I make a lot more than $14 an hour and I write off a lot of stuff for tax purposes. If you run into problems, just call your Dr for advice ::

[AmyKidsCo]

I don't agree that mixed-age care isn't a good fit for your DD, but it sounds like this particular provider isn't a good fit for your DD. Since DD is used to being the "baby" she might have the same problems in a same-age group, because she won't be the "baby" there either.

ITA that you should look for someone who is able and willing to work with your DD without neglecting the other children.

And you're right that quality child care is expensive. On average it costs as much to get a child from infancy to school as it does to get a student through college, but there's MUCH less financial aid available for the early years than there is for college years. Which makes NO sense because parents of young children are generally young and starting out in their careers while parents of college students are usually older, established in their careers, and more financially stable. I don't know the answer, but I do feel for parents of young children. We were in college when our oldest children were in child care, and the price difference of just .50/hour meant we couldn't afford our first choice provider. (Yes, this is a soap box topic for me.)

[Laurie]

IMO, your DD has outgrown her provider. It sounds to me like the provider may prefer caring for infants. I'm saying this only because of your comments regarding the others leaving around the age as your child.

The comments you've said about her calling these children abnormal isn't right!!! She's obviously not been around many children over 16months.. It's called the terrible 2's

I recommend you find a pre-school for your child. Look into state help for the payments.

[JackandJill]

That is a good question. Why would this perfect daycare provider have such a big turn over rate, and why is all toddlers and none of the infants?

I took me just over 2 years in childcare to realize I am not cut out for infant care. I really enjoy the 2 - 5 yr old crowd. This provider is new, and may still be searching for her niche in child care. Unfortunately for you (and some of my previous families), you may be part of her learning curve.

She is not unkind or "throwing your child away". This is a business and she is hopefully learning what ages she can and can't work with.

[Silly Songs]

Most places I have worked used sign language for the 1-2 year mold crowd. It really helps the provider and child communicate better and lessens tantrums and frustrations.

[RIWorkingMom]

Thank you!

Thank you to the last few to reply. I can understand if the provider is not suited to take care of toddlers. The craziest part was yesterday afternoon when I picked her up we spoke about the topic again. She told me that they had a good day. She gave my dd an ultimatum she could understand. She gave them a time check before they came in (which the doctor recommended). Right before they went in for snack, she said if you cry (which is the majority of my daughter's tantrum.... laying down and crying) then we will not go back out to play. My daughter went in and did not throw a tantrum (miracles can happen!). She did whine for the entirety of the morning nap (she still has them on two naps a day). Other than that she did not have an episode for the rest of the day. Mind you, she only takes one nap a day at home. Maybe the first nap feels like a punishment. She is not tired. She just woke up. Maybe the time out is just not a good fit for her. Maybe ultimatums are something she can understand better.

I did speak to the provider and told her that I understand that she is having a tough time with my daughter, and that maybe she is ready for a pre-k type of environment. The provider started to tear up. She doesn't want to see my daughter go, and she has seen a lot of progress. (Remember that these "tantrums" started about two weeks ago) This is what is driving me crazy! I hear for 2 weeks how my daughter's behavior isn't normal and it feels like an attack. There is a huge change in her environment and she is having a tough time adapting. This is normal. There was a trigger, she reacted. There was modification in her discipline and routine, and she reacted well to it. The fact that some of you are so quick to blame the child breaks my heart. I know there are some tough kids out there, but there are also some kids who have a tough time with change. I am still looking into a pre-k environment. My dd is smart. She knows her abcs, colors, shapes and counts to 10. She also sings countless other songs, and is great with completing puzzles beyond her age bracket. I want to keep her in an environment where she can flourish.

So again, thank you. Maybe the dc is great with babies, but not ready for toddlers. However, there are better ways to talk to parents than saying your kid is not normal.

[Unregistered]

Did you inform the provider you would be pulling your child from care immediately yesterday?

[RIWorkingMom]

Did you inform the provider you would be pulling your child from care immediately yesterday?

No. I did not say immediately. I told her that I thought she might be ready for a pre-k type of environment.

If the provider wants to work with my daughter, and my daughter is responding, and the provider stops calling my dd abnormal, then I don't think this is an emergency situation.

Also, I did take into consideration that some people leave and say bad things that may not be true, but I also took note of how the parent's with toddlers that left had a very similar experience to mine.

I am really going in circles in my head here. Is this a situation that must be remedied immediately? Do I need to get my dd out quick? Do I give the provider a chance to work with her? If my dd is responding to new methods, is it so bad? Am I expecting too much out of someone who may be bested suited for infant care and not toddler care?

[daycare]

No. I did not say immediately. I told her that I thought she might be ready for a pre-k type of environment.

If the provider wants to work with my daughter, and my daughter is responding, and the provider stops calling my dd abnormal, then I don't think this is an emergency situation.

Also, I did take into consideration that some people leave and say bad things that may not be true, but I also took note of how the parent's with toddlers that left had a very similar experience to mine.

I am really going in circles in my head here. Is this a situation that must be remedied immediately? Do I need to get my dd out quick? Do I give the provider a chance to work with her? If my dd is responding to new methods, is it so bad? Am I expecting too much out of someone who may be bested suited for infant care and not toddler care?

I work with a provider in my town that does under 2 care only. Her words, she is a babysitter and that's it.

As soon as her kids are about to age out of her program she gives the parents my information. It's not that she doesn't want to keep them, but she finds that the children outgrow what she can offer and they need more.

In return, I send her all of the children I get calls for, for under two and any current children younger siblings that are too young for our program.

I think maybe your provider is taking it personal, which I can understand... BUT your provider needs to understand that the child's needs must be met and that sometimes means letting go.

I'm sorry your in this situation, but it does get better. I like your idea of moving her to somewhere she can get access to learning and a structured schedule that better suits her abilities.

Good luck.

[hwichlaz]

It sounds normal to me, if your descritpion is accurate. Whether your child should be in group care or not isnt' for me to say...but she shouldn't be with THIS provider. I've done this for nearly 18 years now....and I'd just be sticking her in a pack-n-play until she calmed down every time. I wouldn't call it a punishment at all, just a safe place to calm down. Pick her up, without emotion, calmly place her in the crib, walk away and don't look back until I can tell she's starting to calm down a bit. Then once I knew she'd hear what I was saying I'd tell her.....I'll come get you when you're done.

[Blackcat31]

The fact that some of you are so quick to blame the child breaks my heart. I know there are some tough kids out there, but there are also some kids who have a tough time with change.

When posters said your DD may not be thriving in a mixed age group or wasn't a good fit for group care was in NO WAY blaming the child.

That's like saying your DD doesn't like yellow and blaming the crayon. When something isn't a good fit, it's not HER fault. I don't think anyone said that.

I am still looking into a pre-k environment. My dd is smart. She knows her abcs, colors, shapes and counts to 10. She also sings countless other songs, and is great with completing puzzles beyond her age bracket. I want to keep her in an environment where she can flourish.

This is a perfect example of the difference in perspective for parent and provider.

As a parent, the things you listed in support of "being smart" aren't at all the things I view as important.

Group care requires children to be able to have patience, ability to thrive in with mixed aged peers, have manners, not be physically aggressive, social-emotional growth-maturity, can communicate needs, can follow instructions, stay on task, be willing to participate and/or observe new activities etc....

Those things are what make a child independent and mature. Knowing ABC's and 1,2,3's are important but she'll learn those things in school later in life.... the things I listed are the things I work on with children and what I measure a child's successful developmental progress according to.

I have a 2.5 yr old in care that knows all her ABC's and 1,2,3's in both Spanish and English as well as many other memorized academics but the same child is lacking in independence and social emotional development and that is what will cause the most issues in life. Until those skills are mastered, the academics don't matter much.

So again, thank you. Maybe the dc is great with babies, but not ready for toddlers. However, there are better ways to talk to parents than saying your kid is not normal.

I agree there are better ways for the provider to say your child is not normal but there are also better ways to communicate with each other in general.

As the parent, ask the provider to elaborate on what she means by "not normal".

Not normal in general or not normal in this providers experience or not normal for your DD. There are several meanings that could have been her intent. If you are unsure and want to work with her (provider) ask, talk, communicate! Open honest communication is THE key to a successful working relationship between parent and provider.

What I say and what a parent hears aren't always the same thing (your example illustrates that perfectly) so discussing something, asking for clarification, tips, tricks, ideas and resources is not only the providers responsibility but your's as well.

As for the 2 naps a day, your DD is a bit old to still be taking 2 naps a day but depending on how ling her day in care is, how restful her night time sleep is and other factors, she might need two naps but that is something I would definitely be discussing with the provider.

Providing child care is a learning experience for everyone. Even the provider. So communication as we go along on this journey is SOOOO important. It's the best way to ensure that your child's needs are being met!

[Cat Herder]

The fact that some of you are so quick to blame the child breaks my heart.

Wow. You are gifted with the deflect, minimize, reverse and project. Luckily I can smell it like antibiotic poo in the diaper of a kid hiding in the block center. You asked for our opinions. Take it, leave it, but don't be an askhole.

With that, I am done with your thread. I sincerely want things to get better for your daughter. Good luck.

For newbies: There is online annual "working with difficult personalities" training for situations like this. Here is a direct quote from our most recent training.

"Here's a short list of the types of people I would lump into the "unreasonable":

*Those you can't have a reasonable conversation with; they somehow twist your words or totally confuse you and then tell you that you're the one who doesn't know how to communicate

*People who make subtly or overtly demeaning comments or say cutting things to you disguised as a "joke"

*Those that don't respect boundaries and seem to enjoy stepping all over one after you've placed it

*The types that aren't willing to consider your point of view or listen to your side of things (or just stare at you blankly, or laugh, or explode, when you try to explain "how you think or feel")

*Bullies

*Verbal or emotional abusers (these can also range from subtle to overt)

*Manipulators

*People who leave you feeling bad, sad, shaky or feeling sick in the pit of your stomach

*"Crazymakers," a.k.a. people who provoke you into acting crazy or unbalanced (and love making you feel like there's something wrong with you when you do), when your behaviour across the rest of your life is proof that you're not

*The excessively charming who are too good to be true and have an ulterior motive