When to Terminate a Child in Your Daycare

[lilmonkeys]

hello fellow providers...I need some input, advice etc.
I have a little boy that is 4.5 years . when he started here he was such a good little boy. well mannered etc. then about the past 6 or 7 weeks he had completely changed. he never ever ever follows directions, he is always doing the opposite of what I tell him to do or not to do. for example, just today he gets here at 630 am, by 830 he had beenn in time out 2 times, but redirecred over 5 times. the time outs were for throwing a toy at my window, then the 2nd was for drinking his apple juice and as he was doibg it he told thr other kids he was drinking his beer. he comes 4 days a week for up to 10 hours a day.
when we are outside he climbs on top of tables and throws things and screams and runs around all crazy runs into other kids etc.
any suggestions. I talk to the parents literally weekly about this and they say they will talk with him and he will loose things at home, but then it starts all over the next day.
I was trying to figure out if someone else was apart of the attitude be has here. but he isn't here Mondays and noticed my daycare is quiet and calm and everyone behaves and is never in time out. then the rest of the week is chaos bc of him.
one time I put him in time out on my couch and there was a sting sticking out on a seam of the couch and he decided to pull on it and ripped a huge hole in my couch. just very destructive, doesn't listen or follow any directions ever. I go over the rules and expectations every morning with him and the othwrs. he is the only one I have to keep reminding all day and redirecting...any suggestions.
I love the parents but just don't know if it's a good decision to keep or term.

[lilmonkeys]

When to terminate a child in your daycare

hello fellow providers...I need some input, advice etc.
I have a little boy that is 4.5 years . when he started here he was such a good little boy. well mannered etc. then about the past 6 or 7 weeks he had completely changed. he never ever ever follows directions, he is always doing the opposite of what I tell him to do or not to do. for example, just today he gets here at 630 am, by 830 he had been in time out 2 times, but redirected over 5 times. the time outs were for throwing a toy at my window, then the 2nd was for drinking his apple juice and as he was doing it he told the other kids he was drinking his beer. he comes 4 days a week for up to 10 hours a day.
when we are outside he climbs on top of tables and throws things and screams and runs around all crazy runs into other kids etc.
any suggestions. I talk to the parents literally weekly about this and they say they will talk with him and he will lose things at home, but then it starts all over the next day.
I was trying to figure out if someone else was apart of the attitude be has here. but he isn't here Mondays and noticed my daycare is quiet and calm and everyone behaves and is never in time out. then the rest of the week is chaos bc of him.
one time I put him in time out on my couch and there was a string sticking out on a seam of the couch and he decided to pull on it and ripped a huge hole in my couch. just very destructive, doesn't listen or follow any directions ever. I go over the rules and expectations every morning with him and the others. he is the only one I have to keep reminding all day and redirecting...any suggestions.
I love the parents but just don't know if it's a good decision to keep or term.

[JackandJill]

For me the biggest indicator is when you can see the difference in days the child is there or not there. As you said, the day he isn't there are so nice. That would be the sign for me that it is time to move them along!

[Blackcat31]

hello fellow providers...I need some input, advice etc.
I have a little boy that is 4.5 years . when he started here he was such a good little boy. well mannered etc. then about the past 6 or 7 weeks he had completely changed. he never ever ever follows directions, he is always doing the opposite of what I tell him to do or not to do. for example, just today he gets here at 630 am, by 830 he had been in time out 2 times, but redirected over 5 times. the time outs were for throwing a toy at my window, then the 2nd was for drinking his apple juice and as he was doing it he told the other kids he was drinking his beer. he comes 4 days a week for up to 10 hours a day.
when we are outside he climbs on top of tables and throws things and screams and runs around all crazy runs into other kids etc.
any suggestions. I talk to the parents literally weekly about this and they say they will talk with him and he will lose things at home, but then it starts all over the next day.
I was trying to figure out if someone else was apart of the attitude be has here. but he isn't here Mondays and noticed my daycare is quiet and calm and everyone behaves and is never in time out. then the rest of the week is chaos bc of him.
one time I put him in time out on my couch and there was a string sticking out on a seam of the couch and he decided to pull on it and ripped a huge hole in my couch. just very destructive, doesn't listen or follow any directions ever. I go over the rules and expectations every morning with him and the others. he is the only one I have to keep reminding all day and redirecting...any suggestions.
I love the parents but just don't know if it's a good decision to keep or term.

You can love the parents all you want but I value my sanity more.

Honestly it simply sounds like he needs a much different environment. I'd let him go.

The parents solution(s) don't seem to be helping (at least not consistently) and I would just not have the patience to continue repeating myself over and over without seeing any positive and consistent changes.

I think Monday's are trying to tell you something.

[childcaremom]

You can love the parents all you want but I value my sanity more.

Honestly it simply sounds like he needs a much different environment. I'd let him go.

The parents solution(s) don't seem to be helping (at least not consistently) and I would just not have the patience to continue repeating myself over and over without seeing any positive and consistent changes.

I think Monday's are trying to tell you something.

I agree. I also find that if I start questioning if it's time to term.... it usually is.

[NightOwl]

The string on the couch, meh. It was a string, he saw it, wanted to pull it. He probably didn't intend to make a hole.

The other behaviors would have me drafting a term letter. I always feel for kids like this because I'm afraid they'll end up labeled and shuffled around to different providers, which is counterproductive.

But that's not really your problem. Your problem is the chaos he brings on a daily basis. If he's this disruptive to your program, if he dominates your attention with his misbehavior, then it's time to go. It's not fair to the others.

[daycarediva]

I would just let him go. You have addressed the behaviors with parents. You SEE the positive result that consistency, rules and routine have on him, and you KNOW that is being undone on the weekend.

I would just simply say it's no longer a good fit, and that you think he would do better in a situation with more than one provider due to the level of supervision he requires.

[CityGarden]

I agree with NightOwl about the string on the couch --- I am sure he did not intend to cause a hole.

Personally in the short time I have been on this forum it seems people are quick to suggest terminating a family. If he was new to your care I could relate to this but he is not and until 2 months ago you describe him in a completely different way. He is in your care 40 hours a week so you are also responsible just as the parents are and should at least try to partner on how to improve him behavior.

1. Have you mentioned his behavior in a formal manner to the parents or just at pick up/drop off?

2. Have you documented his behavior for a typical day or two and showed it to the parents while also contrasting it to his former good behavior?

I would have a formal parent teacher conference after hours outlining the challenges, your upcoming plans and approach to adjusting the behaviors while he is in your care and also clearing indicating what you feel they can and should do at home to support this.

I am a HUGE advocate for children getting the sleep and nutrition their bodies need. Children that age should be sleeping 10-12 hours a day. Can the parents help commit to that? Also limiting media helps a ton with children's behaviors.....

1. Can the parents commit to him getting the sleep he needs (this includes nap times hours)?

2. Are the making sure he naps on days he is not in your care? Can they limit his media to X number of hours on the weekend so Mondays are not so tough?

3. Does he follow a consistent schedule / routine at home?

4. Is he eating healthy foods?

I would tell the parents you are willing to work with him in your program but that his behavior has to improve with in the next X weeks or this program will no longer fit his needs as his behaviors are impacting the entire group. (In essence he would be on a probation period without using that term to the parents)

[Tay]

He should be in school already....time to go!

[Blackcat31]

I agree with NightOwl about the string on the couch --- I am sure he did not intend to cause a hole.

Personally in the short time I have been on this forum it seems people are quick to suggest terminating a family. If he was new to your care I could relate to this but he is not and until 2 months ago you describe him in a completely different way. He is in your care 40 hours a week so you are also responsible just as the parents are and should at least try to partner on how to improve him behavior. Have you mentioned his behavior in a formal manner to the parents or just at pick up/drop off? Have you documented his behavior for a typical day or two and showed it to mom while also contrasting it to his former good behavior. I would have a formal parent teacher conference after hours outlining the challenges, your upcoming plans and approach to adjusting the behaviors while he is in your care and also clearing indicating what you feel they can and should do.

I am a HUGE advocate for children getting the sleep and nutrition their bodies need. Children that age should be sleeping 10-12 hours a day. Can the parents help commit to that? Also limiting media helps a ton with children's behaviors..... can they limit his media to X number of hours on the weekend so Mondays are not so tough. I would tell the parents you are willing to work with him in your program but that he is on probation for the next X weeks as his behaviors are impacting the entire group.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with this.

The OP is NOT just as responsible as the parents and she HAS tried (numerous times) to get the parents on board with no luck. :confused:

When people (general people) start telling daycare providers (NOT teachers in a classroom with tons of support) but in-home child care providers that it's more or less their jobs to "fix" these kids, that is when bad stuff starts happening.

IME on this board and tons of others...when a provider gets to the point of venting/complaining or left without any idea how to manage a situation it's because they've already exhausted EVERY.SINGLE trick in their basket of tricks.

I apologize, as I am sure my post comes across as a bit harsh but nothing bothers me more than someone (anyone) making a provider think negative behaviors are their issues to "fix".

I'll manage any type of behavior in my care IF and ONLY IF the parents not only take the lead but are working HARDER than I am to make changes.

[renodeb]

I had a little boy years ago, he was great for a really long time then suddenly out of know where he started to act up, throwing toys over my fence (on purpose), hitting my dog, throwing rocks at the dog, among other things. I asked the parents if there had been any big changes at home to cause him to act this way and of course they played dumb. I finally termed them and it was so much better. He effected the mood of the hole group.
I think you answered your own question.
Deb

[CityGarden]

Black Cat I actually tried to edit the post to clarify my view and sent a note to the moderator to help me in doing so.

I do not feel the provider is just as responsible but I do feel she does and should play a role in it. I am hoping the moderator allows my revised post to be posted but we will see. Sorry if I offended the OP that was not my intent.

[Blackcat31]

Black Cat I actually tried to edit the post to clarify my view and sent a note to the moderator to help me in doing so.

I do not feel the provider is just as responsible but I do feel she does and should play a role in it. I am hoping the moderator allows my revised post to be posted but we will see. Sorry if I offended the OP that was not my intent.

Again I apologize if my reply seemed harsh... Ive just seen way too many providers try so much longer than they really should have and then are still left feeling like failures.

It creates a vicious cycle.

If parents do their jobs we can usually easily do ours but we can't do much of anything without support from home base.

[lovemydaycare0912]

If you have tried all you can, terming is not failure. Take it from me, I kept a family way longer than I should have. Everytime I added a new policy it would give me anxiety to speak to the parents because they always had a problem with everything. They would be late here and there and of course my fault even if I gave them a late fee. Dcb was amazing but I could not tolerate his parents. After a big second blow up, I let them go. I have been feeling so much better ever since. If you have to term because it is what is best for you, DO NOT feel bad. You come first!

[CityGarden]

Yeah! They allowed my revised post. OP please read it.

The reason I wanted to revise it was to be with a spirit of support to you and in a hope of being solution oriented. I do hope you were not offended / slighted by my first draft at it..... I was rushing and quickly noticed it read in a way I did not intend it to. Sorry.

Thanks Michael for allowing the change!!!