Nannyde - No Motion Babies?

[nannyde]

Really? All of mine did. I think that has a bit to do with the fact hat I use absolutley no baby holders....no bouncers, swings, high chairs, exersaucers, etc. They tend to do stuff earlier when they aren't confined to equipment.

::::

Rolling from back to belly at three months because they aren't "confined". Now I have heard it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::

In this case earlier is NOT better.

[Crystal]

okay. I am not going to debate it with you. Back to the regularly scheduled topic....

[dEHmom]

Have I ever mentioned being SO jealous of Canada for exactly that reason? (Well, and others, but that's a big one). How's the demand for home childcare or high school teachers in Canada ::? I've vaguely considered moving there just to get away from some of the dumb things in America.

I'm a little jealous of you guys for being able to take on such itty bitty babies! Usually since moms in Canada stay home for a year, they figure out in that time how they can stay home until child starts school. Ugh. I love the itty bitties but I know that if I had a house full of kids it would be very difficult. Usually the earliest, not always but majority of the time, they are 9-12 months when we get them. They've already started moving around, discovering things, and have some nasty habits they have gotten away with. Especially if they are a first child.

[nannyde]

None of my dck's have done that, and the 3mo I have now isn't even close to being able to roll either way!

And be thankful for that.

If I had a kid that could roll back to belly at three months (you know the ones who you CAN pat their little butts to sleep) I would be a NERVOUS wreck during nap every day.

I've had a range of flippers... belly to back happens first and it's usually around the fifth month. The back to belly is usually around the sixth month.

I've seen that kids who are small and thin (wirey) are usually the earliest. The heavier babies are usually on the later side.

I've had them as late as eight months to roll with REALLY big babies.

It doesn't affect their outcome developmentally in any way so it's a care issue rather than a development issue. As long as they can flip by the eigth-ninth month you are good to go in the fliipping department.

Because the liklihood of SIDS is SO much higher in the second to the sixth month I would never wish "early" development in the back to belly flip. The babies are not always under a watchful eye as they are in day care. They sleep all night without an adult watching them sleep.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sudden-infant-death-syndrome/DS00145

[nannyde]

okay. I am not going to debate it with you. Back to the regularly scheduled topic....

No debate

If I was DOING something that assisted kids in flipping from back to belly at age three months I would STOP doing it.

Because of SIDS and all...................... the back to sleep and all..........

[dEHmom]

This is probably off topic but I have meaning to ask what others do in this situation....above Crystal says "rub his back" which is what I did with both of my girls. BUT babies are suppose to sleep on their backs (mine didn't) although I always put daycare babies on their back, but how do you sooth a screaming baby that is staring up at you when they are laying on their back. You can't rub their back or pat their bums, two things that always worked for my girls.

I suggested side sleepers, but I guess that would be too controversial on here. .

AS for all the comments about babies rolling over etc by 3-5 mths, my nephew, when he was 1 month old, was already making his way across the living room. He is now 6 months old, and for the last month and a half he has been "crawling" he gets up and rocks on hands/knees, but then just sort of uses arms to crawl (like they do in the military) where he wants to go. He is extremely fast too. He has since he was 4 1/2 weeks old been able to roll himself completely over from back to belly and belly to back. Now I know my nephew is just exceptionally smart, and ridiculously advance but babies who get lots of tummy time develop faster with things like this. I know as daycare providers we can't spend as much time doing this, but it is a necessity. I know 9 month old babies, who can't even crawl yet, or roll over because they've spent all their time on their backs, and they are often the chubbiest babies of all. I state this only from what I've seen/experienced.

I agree with Nannyde though that it isn't something you necessarily want a baby to do because it is nerve racking. But if the baby is strong enough to flip and there isn't anything that can suffocate in the pnp/crib, it's not as scary as you might think. They will be able to turn their head. And before my kids slept on their tummies, I always watched them 100% when they did tummy time, and I'd stick my finger under their nose, and see if they'd turn their head every time. If they didn't then i never bothered with sleeping on tummy when I wasn't watching 100%.

[jen]

http://www.babycenter.com/0_mileston...ths_1496585.bc

This chart shows that at three months babies roll from tummy to back. By 5 months, back to tummy. So, for SOME three month olds, you wouldn't be able to rub the back when sleeping as they may not be rolling from back to tummy yet. But, mine did (probably somewhere between 3 and 5 months, not EXACTLY 3 months) and I'd say MOST of my dck did.

Hmmm....well, I have NEVER owned a bumbo seat, a swing, or used a playpen for anything other than nap. No equipment and oddly enough, never had a kid rolling over at 3 month. IF they were, I'd flip them back over.

Mine tend to roll closer to 5 months, at which point I let sleeping babies lie.

I think that whole implication that we are confining babies that don't roll according to some chart is offensive.

[nannyde]

Nannyde said: Wow I've never had a three month old that could flip either from back to belly or belly to back

Really? All of mine did. I think that has a bit to do with the fact hat I use absolutley no baby holders....no bouncers, swings, high chairs, exersaucers, etc. They tend to do stuff earlier when they aren't confined to equipment.

It makes me wonder about the correlation with SIDS during this age (begining of second month to sixth month) if having a "no baby holders" = early (3-4 mo) back to belly flip = higher liklihood of SIDS.

Hmmmmmmm have to research that.

[jen]

I just noticed the no high-chair thing! So, are you holding babies to feed them?

[MN Mom]

My niece (who I watch FT) has been rolling since 3 months. She only sleeps on her tummy, though, and has since birth. It was scary at first, because all my kids were raised on the back to sleep method. Since she is family, and mom did the tummy thing from birth, I was happy to continue while she was here but only under 100% supervision. When she is asleep she is never unsupervised. Either I'm with her, or my oldest daughter is with her if I have to potty / assist one of my own children for after school snack, homework. I don't use anything but pnp for sleeping. I don't do bouncy seats, swings, boppies (whatever those are) or high chairs. When she is awake (and she's 4 months now) she is on the floor rolling and playing with toys, and babbling to anyone who will listen. My youngest 2 LOVE when she has floor time because they sing and dance for her which sends her into fits of laughter and cooing.

I suppose my situation is different, because I'm more like a nanny/auntie. I can devote 100% of my time to my niece during the day (which I enjoy very much btw). When I did more of a daycare setting with 1 baby and 2 SA children...it was a nightmare. I love being able to do the one on one care.

[nannyde]

I just noticed the no high-chair thing! So, are you holding babies to feed them?

I've seen that before in the PICT training.

It was SO funny.

They showed a class of 30 providers this dvd and they get to that part where they show an adult holding a baby while feeding them baby food and the whole class went.......... GROOOOOOOOOOOOOAN all at the same time.

Priceless.

That was just ONE of their brilliant teachings. I kept thinking the whole time I was watching it ... "where ARE the OTHER kids?" They couldn't even film it without having one to one adult care. There were never any OTHER kids in the shot... of course.

[jen]

Weird. I did a quick and dirty as I remembered reading something about high-chairs and kids who fail to thrive. According to this peer reviewed study there is a correlation between kids who fail to thrive and those who don't use a high-chair. Something that might be worth a bit of investigation.


The essential link between energy needs and energy intake is feeding behaviour, yet few studies have directly observed feeding behaviour in children who have failed to thrive. A cohort of 961 term infants was screened to identify children with first year weight gain below the 5th centile in order to examine their feeding behaviour and food intake. A nested case-control study was used with direct observation at 13–21 months over two lunchtime meals, one consisting of finger foods and the other of ‘spoon foods’. Thirty children who failed to thrive and 57 controls were studied. The video-tapes were coded for feeding behaviour using a behavioural coding inventory which distinguishes between children feeding themselves and responding to being fed by their mother. The main outcome measures were counts of five feeding actions ( give, accept, feedself, refuse, reject) and measures of energy intake, the weight of food eaten and meal duration. There were systematic differences in feeding behaviour between meal types, with mothers feeding their child more often at meals comprising spoon foods and children feeding themselves more often at meals comprising finger foods. By weight, more food was consumed at the spoon food meals, but energy intake was no higher, showing that the children compensated for the differing energy yields of the foods. Children who failed to thrive took in less energy than controls, and were less likely to sit in a highchair throughout the meal, but there were no clear differences in other aspects of feeding behaviour. Food type is an important variable when studying childhood feeding behaviour. Children who fail to thrive take in less energy than controls of the same age, despite there being no major differences in mealtime feeding behaviour. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]
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[marniewon]

I suggested side sleepers, but I guess that would be too controversial on here. .

Our regs say that ALL babies must be put to sleep on their backs. IF they can flip, we can leave them (although at 3 mo I would probably flip them back). Even if we know they can flip, and know they prefer tummy sleeping, we still must put them in the pnp on their back. So I guess it's not so much controversy as it is our rules and non-negotiable

For the record, when my kids were infants, the "in" thing to do was lay them on their tummy to sleep. I guess it's just like anything else, the experts keep changing their minds on what is best and how we should do things.

[dEHmom]

I agree about the experts changing their minds, but it is mostly due to new studies proving things, or the theories that surround them.

They don't TRULY know what causes sids. It is something that they have theories about what causes it.
How many moms/dads smoke in a house, but would never admit it?
How many moms/dads stuff the cribs with teddies but would never admit it?

There are way too many factors that go unknown.

Not my own child, of course I would "back to sleep". But my fear with my children, especially my last, was that he would vomit, and choke. Because there were several times that I watched this happen, and had to clear it out for him. It was terrifying watching your 1 month old premature baby with eyes bulging out of his head, gasping for air, and vomit coming out of his nose and mouth at the same time. Doctors advised me to tummy sleep, or upright sleep in a car seat. So it was different, and recommended by the doctors.

[Unregistered]

sleeping

All babies have to start out on their backs for sleeping. Once they are able to roll over, then they can sleep on their tummies or their sides.

As far as movement to get babies to sleep goes, I don't do that because that just reinforces a sleep habit that may not be the best one to have. Letting a baby learn to sleep without needing to be rocked or in a swing, etc. is for their benefit. It can be hard for a little while, but once they become accustomed to it, they can sleep without the need to be rocked. I put my infants down for nap when they are awake but ready for nap and they go right to sleep.