Picking Up Toys...What Do You Think

[momofsix]

Here's the sept. newsletter that was sent to me today. I admit I am already having a "grouchy" sort of day, so this may not be as bad as I'm taking it...but what do you all think?

The parts that really bother me the most are

1-Avoid sending the message that those who pick up are better than those who don't. OF COURSE they're not better people:confused: but they are good "cleaner uppers" and I will praise them for their work! Just as I might praise the "not so good cleaner upper" for something else!

2-Adults should plan to do most of the cleaning up I have NO problem helping with clean up, but even my babies "help" put things away. By the time my kids are about 2.5-3 they can really clean up with very little help from me.

3-It is a very complex and difficult task :confused: Don't see it now and have never seen cleaning up as complex and difficult for kids IF the adult doesn't let the room go to complete chaos. Of course it's the adults resposibility to make sure it's not crazy messy in the room!

[beachgrl]

I think it depends on the age of the kid and what their home routine is like..there are very few who "like" to clean up..I think we are all that way. We love to do certain things but we dread housework or more mundane tasksnbut we also know they are things that muct be done. I always pitch in and help my lil ppl with cleanup if they are helping but I won't if they don't. If I have to cleanup, I may put the items up for a days bc they didn't help but typically they will get involved if adults do and make it fun.

I think they need to learn responsibility and being part of a family/group that does things together for the greater good personally.

[beachgrl]

As a pre k teacher I would agree that visual cues/pics work well to help kids see what you want them to do!

[Meeko]

Sorry...none of that horse **** in my day care!

I was taught to clean up after myself and I made my own kids do the same and I will make my day care kids clean up after themselves too.

It is NOT hard and even the little ones soon learn exactly where things go and that when I say clean up....we clean up. It's not up for debate.

Good grief...who decided that the kids are in charge????????????????? I posted earlier about one of my BA school kids sarcastically telling me that cleaning up or not is "his" choice. I used "my" choice and sent him to time out for being sassy.

That said...I find that most of the time praise works wonders. I will say "Suzie! Great job cleaning up!" The other kids will try extra hard to outdo Suzie and I make sure I praise any child who is putting things away. The room is clean in a second.

[ritah]

Sorry...none of that horse **** in my day care!

I was taught to clean up after myself and I made my own kids do the same and I will make my day care kids clean up after themselves too.

It is NOT hard and even the little ones soon learn exactly where things go and that when I say clean up....we clean up. It's not up for debate.

Good grief...who decided that the kids are in charge????????????????? I posted earlier about one of my BA school kids sarcastically telling me that cleaning up or not is "his" choice. I used "my" choice and sent him to time out for being sassy.

That said...I find that most of the time praise works wonders. I will say "Suzie! Great job cleaning up!" The other kids will try extra hard to outdo Suzie and I make sure I praise any child who is putting things away. The room is clean in a second.

I agree wholeheartedly!

[sharlan]

As someone who is REALLY, REALLY bad about not making the kids clean up, I think this article is junk. (I am working on it, though.)

I would never berate, or belittle a child who isn't doing the clean up to my satisfaction, but I wouldn't say it's that difficult of a task if broken down into small areas.

[spud912]

Wow....that's all I have to say!

[wdmmom]

I don't care what the author does but it surely isn't happening here!

[Blackcat31]

What is the deal with the boy comments? :confused:

If I flick the lights it tells boys to run around? :confused:

Kinda makes it look like he thinks boys are not as good as people who aren't boys.

[kimsdaycare]

What is the deal with the boy comments? :confused:

If I flick the lights it tells boys to run around? :confused:

Kinda makes it look like he thinks boys are not as good as people who aren't boys.

I was wondering who was going to mention this first.

Who is this person? Very odd comments indeed.

[nannyde]

Clean up time is one of the most debatable transition issues.

It's only a debate if there is an option not to do it.

When children are asked to clean up toys, the act of cleaning up uses a different part of the brain than getting toys out.

That's cool. Let's use both sides.

It is a very complex and difficult task.

Difficult is GOOD. Complex is GOOD.


Piaget said that children have to develop “reversibility” before they are capable of reversing actions.

They only have to develop reversability if they have ACCESS to undo things they aren't able to reverse.

When a child gets out a puzzle and slams it against the table upside down, it doesn’t mean that he/she knows how to reverse that action.

That's why you only give them access to the things they know how to reverse.


If they do not have that cognitive skill they are most likely going to leave the puzzle unfinished.

That's why you start with puzzles with two pieces... then three... then six... and on and on. When they do puzzles you have them DO as many pieces as they are able to put back.

Children are often surprised when the adult says, “Don’t forget to finish your puzzle and put it where it belongs.”

No surprises here. They only get puzzles they will willingly do without adult involvement. If they abandon them then they are saying they aren't ready for them. Fair enough.

The argument for cleaning up, that is often expressed by adults, is that it prepares children for the future.

I have them clean because that's what I want them to do TODAY. I don't do it to prepare them for the future. I do it to have the floor cleaned up today.

There is no evidence that cleaning up as a young child produces adults who are better at cleaning up. In reality sometimes the opposite occurs.

There is evidence that when you have them clean up then the floor is cleaned today. When you have them put the doll house back... the dolls are back in their place... the cribs are back in their place... the blankets are back... the babies are back.

That's evidence enough for me.

If clean up time is the major focus, children are not going to want to play with anything for fear they might have to pick it up.

Clean up is not a major focus. I don't focus on them taking it out or putting it back. I tell them to go play toys. I tell them to clean up. It's expected of them to do both with the same energy... the same tone... the same.

Adults often give the message that children who “pick up” are better than children who do not “pick up.” Is that really true?

I don't even consider better. I consider whether everything is put back so that when they come back to play it is "righted" and ready for good self entertainment play. I don't have any child who will not pick up. If they resist cleaning then they have MORE to clean.
With every refussal they have more to do. Very quickly they understand that the small amount they are being told to do is better than the large amount they are being told to do when they resist.

THAT'S the math. You do THIS amount... at THIS time... which is never more than they can do in a few minutes. OR... you do THIS more amount... and then more... and then more.

I say "do you want to clean this" and then wave one hand to the small area ... or "do you want to clean this" and wave my hand at the big area?

When they realize the little amount is quick and easy and the bigger amount is harder they ALWAYS choose to do the smaller amount. It only takes one period of escalating the amount to get them to do the small reasonable amount we allow to be out at one time.

If they decide to challenge it as they get older we do rinse and repeat. Once they are old enough to know how much more more is they kindly do their little share.

I am hoping that adults are looking for creative, playful, energetic, lively children that might need to play with lots of material without regard to worrying about cleaning it up.....

We don't have creativity or livliness when it's time to clean. Everything has it's place. When it's time to get them out they know where they are and what to do with them. When it's time to put them back they know where they are to go and what to do with them.

•Adults should plan on doing most of the cleaning up

I never clean toys. EVER The kids clean all the toys every day. I haven't paid a penny to a staff assistant to clean toys. The older kids teach the younger ones what to do as they toys become more complicated to sort and return.

•Do not expect that all children will finish playing at the same time

They all finish playing at the same time.


•Make individual warnings rather than group announcements

We say "clean toys little spud muffins" They all stop playing and clean the toys.

•Do not expect that children will clean up the way you would

I have an organized playroom so they DO clean up as I would have an adult clean up. If my three year old cleans the room it will look identical to the way I would clean the room.... if I cleaned toys.. which I do not.

•Avoid flicking the lights, it sends children messages, especially boys, to run around fast

No light flicking. Just say the words 'clean up"

•Let children who want to help with the clean up process assist

No... you clean up your side of the room where you play. If there is some kind of unusual thing happening where a kid leaves or becomes ill THEN I would ask the others to pitch in on their side and do their work. If all is well you won't have anyone who wants to help have to do any more than the ones who don't want to.

•Use visual warnings, especially for boys, ex.
Picture cards of children picking up

Geeze I must be raising boy child geniuses because I haven't ever had to do anything other than use my voice to get them to clean toys. If they refuse they just get more to do.

I do NOT praise kids for cleaning toys. I don't praise them when they take it out and I don't praise them when they put it back.

Praise is a slippery slope. When used for common every day expectations it can be an escalator and a distractor.

Use it wisely.

My clean up rules: If you can walk you can work. If you can get it out you can put it back. If I allow you access to something to get out that you can't get back then that's on me.

Allowing appropriate access is the key. We have base floor toys and then the toys that WOULD be more difficult to clean are by invite only.

We don't allow the amount of toys out to get beyond their abilities.

I have now officially spent more time writing about clean up then I will spend talking to kids about clean up in the next year.

[momofsix]

Clean up time is one of the
most debatable transition
issues.

It's only a debate if there is an option not to do it.

When children are
asked to clean up toys, the
act of cleaning up uses a
different part of the brain
than getting toys out.

That's cool. Let's use both sides.

It is a
very complex and difficult
task.

Difficult is GOOD. Complex is GOOD.


Piaget said that children
have to develop
“reversibility” before they
are capable of reversing
actions.

They only have to develop reversability if they have ACCESS to undo things they aren't able to reverse.


When a child gets
out a puzzle and slams it
against the table upside
down, it doesn’t mean that
he/she knows how to
reverse that action.

That's why you only give them access to the things they know how to reverse.


If they
do not have that cognitive
skill they are most likely
going to leave the puzzle
unfinished.

That's why you start with puzzles with two pieces... then three... then six... and on and on. When they do puzzles you have them DO as many pieces as they are able to put back.

Children are
often surprised when the
adult says, “Don’t forget to
finish your puzzle and put it
where it belongs.”

No surprises here. They only get puzzles they will willingly do without adult involvement. If they abandon them then they are saying they aren't ready for them. Fair enough.

The argument for cleaning
up, that is often expressed
by adults, is that it prepares
children for the future.

I have them clean because that's what I want them to do TODAY. I don't do it to prepare them for the future. I do it to have the floor cleaned up today.


There is no evidence that
cleaning up as a young child
produces adults who are
better at cleaning up. In
reality sometimes the
opposite occurs.

There is evidence that when you have them clean up then the floor is cleaned today. When you have them put the doll house back... the dolls are back in their place... the cribs are back in their place... the blankets are back... the babies are back.

That's evidence enough for me.


If clean up time is the major
focus, children are not going
to want to play with anything
for fear they might have to
pick it up.

Clean up is not a major focus. I don't focus on them taking it out or putting it back. I tell them to go play toys. I tell them to clean up. It's expected of them to do both with the same energy... the same tone... the same.



Adults often give the
message that children who
“pick up” are better than
children who do not “pick
up.” Is that really true?

I don't even consider better. I consider whether everything is put back so that when they come back to play it is "righted" and ready for good self entertainment play. I don't have any child who will not pick up. If they resist cleaning then they have MORE to clean.

With every refussal they have more to do. Very quickly they understand that the small amount they are being told to do is better than the large amount they are being told to do when they resist.

THAT'S the math. You do THIS amount... at THIS time... which is never more than they can do in a few minutes. OR... you do THIS more amount... and then more... and then more.

I say "do you want to clean this" and then wave one hand to the small area ... or "do you want to clean this" and wave my hand at the big area?

When they realize the little amount is quick and easy and the bigger amount is harder they ALWAYS choose to do the smaller amount. It only takes one period of escalating the amount to get them to do the small reasonable amount we allow to be out at one time.

If they decide to challenge it as they get older we do rinse and repeat. Once they are old enough to know how much more more is they kindly do their little share.


I am hoping that adults are
looking for creative, playful,
energetic, lively children
that might need to play with
lots of material without
regard to worrying about
cleaning it up.....

We don't have creativity or livliness when it's time to clean. Everything has it's place. When it's time to get them out they know where they are and what to do with them. When it's time to put them back they know where they are to go and what to do with them.


•Adults should plan on doing most of the
cleaning up

I never clean toys. EVER The kids clean all the toys every day. I haven't paid a penny to a staff assistant to clean toys. The older kids teach the younger ones what to do as they toys become more complicated to sort and return.

•Do not expect that all children will finish
playing at the same time

They all finish playing at the same time.


•Make individual warnings rather than
group announcements

We say "clean toys little spud muffins" They all stop playing and clean the toys.

•Do not expect that children will clean up the
way you would

I have an organized playroom so they DO clean up as I would have an adult clean up. If my three year old cleans the room it will look identical to the way I would clean the room.... if I cleaned toys.. which I do not.

•Avoid flicking the lights, it sends children
messages, especially boys, to run around
fast

No light flicking. Just say the words 'clean up"

•Let children who want to help with the clean
up process assist

No... you clean up your side of the room where you play. If there is some kind of unusual thing happening where a kid leaves or becomes ill THEN I would ask the others to pitch in on their side and do their work. If all is well you won't have anyone who wants to help have to do any more than the ones who don't want to.

•Use visual warnings, especially for boys, ex.
Picture cards of children picking up

Geeze I must be raising boy child geniuses because I haven't ever had to do anything other than use my voice to get them to clean toys. If they refuse they just get more to do.

I do NOT praise kids for cleaning toys. I don't praise them when they take it out and I don't praise them when they put it back.

Praise is a slippery slope. When used for common every day expectations it can be an escalator and a distractor.

Use it wisely.

My clean up rules: If you can walk you can work. If you can get it out you can put it back. If I allow you access to something to get out that you can't get back then that's on me.

Allowing appropriate access is the key. We have base floor toys and then the toys that WOULD be more difficult to clean are by invite only.

We don't allow the amount of toys out to get beyond their abilities.

I have now officially spent more time writing about clean up then I will spend talking to kids about clean up in the next year.

I love EVERY response! You have very well thought out answers.
I was just too dumbfounded to even come up with ANY responses
My favorite is the "evidence" that the floor is clean today::::::

Here is a link to the author's website. Scary all the teaching he does, awards he's won and the influence he has over so many. I wonder how does someone get to be so "respected" in the field when so many disagree with what he says? He is writing the newsletters that our state DHS sends to all providers so obviously they think he's telling us things we need to know! (That's a serious question!)
Any thoughts on that? Why aren't we all making the money HE makes by telling it like it REALLY IS instead of coming up with some random rules for caregivers? http://www.danieljhodgins.com/

[MamaJ]

I received this same newsletter, and was quite appalled. I'm newly licensed...so wasn't sure if it was appropriate for me to respond...don't want to red flag myself as a complainer, etc....but this article was horrible, and I can't believe the state would send this garbage out.

I think i will respond....you should too! the parts specifically about boys really irked me. it was also as if the whole article was like saying "oh kids aren't capable of following directions and cleaning up, so don't make them feel bad if they don't do it".

[nannyde]

http://www.joyfulnoisedaycare.com/hodgins.html

This is a link to his other newsletters.

I'll look at them this weekend

[Kaddidle Care]

Who is this guy? What are his credentials? All I can see is that he's a "presenter and an author". He has 1 daughter and she lives in Japan. Hmmm - that tells me something right there. ::

Cleaning up after themselves is teaching responsibility. Something current society and culture is sadly missing.

Yes, they need some guidance - "Betty, please put the dolls in the doll area." "Johnny, please help Billy put the blocks away."

There's always a new spin on how to raise our children. I see less and less parenting and more and more children running amuck. I'm old fashioned and I don't get this sort of thinking.

My own personal home is very small. My child learned that he could only play with one or two items at a time and had to put them away before he could pull out a 3rd otherwise you just plain couldn't walk in that room!

Putting toys away is NOT a complicated task. Not if you have buckets for everything. It is natural for a child to line up like things in a row. Why isn't it natural to place them in a bucket together?

Sorry - I don't get him - Nutter!