More State Issues with Fence Requirements

[gbcc]

Oh, trust me I have. She pulls the trump card and tells me "because I control if you get your license or not and I think you need one." I'd love to get a return call from the supervisor. She even admitted to me there is no regulation and she just feels I should have one. I wish she would retire or I could change to one of the other registrars who don't have it out for me. I have heard others complain about the state but I can't believe how rediculous they really are.

[Chickenhauler]

The fence goes along my front yard. It begins 2 ft from my neighbors property were there is a bush on the neighbors property and runs along the front yard to the driveway. 100ft. long. If it was regulation that was written some where fine, it's the law. But this is just some old bag that wants to challenge everything I do.

Yes, a child will get through a gap but.... what is from stopping him from going into my neighbors yard to walk around the fence. This is why I think she is being rediculous. Just because it goes to the end of my property line doesn't mean the child still can't go around it.

So, here is what it looks like
B - bush
F - Fence
D - Driveway


B FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF DDDDDDDD

I am in NY and here there are no specific regulations to a fence. I only know of one provider in this area that has a fence, but by her own choice. And yes, you would think she would require it to go all the way around, but no... she just said it has to be accross my front yard to the driveway. See why this is not making sence? There is a provider at the end of my road that lives on the intersection corner, no fence. Another lady 5 homes down, no fence. I'm not angry that I need a fence. I am angry because I am being targetted and there are no regulations to support it.

Without the fence being a complete enclosure, the fence is worthless.

Time to play the game by her rules.

Get in touch with her supervisor....preferably someone who is above her, but in an elected position (really dumb for them to ignore voter). Bring it to their attention that you're concerned about the fact that this woman is incompetent, she thinks that a fence across the front of the yard will stop kids from entering the street, but the fence is not an enclosure. Be sure to bring up your concern about her inability to grasp this concept, and how dangerous this could be for children.

If you can't get a return call, make a personal visit. It's much harder to blow someone off or ignore them in person. Had that same problem with a county atty once, would never return calls and he was always "busy" or "in court" or "in a meeting".....finally, I got sick of getting the brush off, so I packed a lunch and camped in his office all day long. After 3 hours, he finally managed to "find time" to discuss the matter with me in person.

Oh, trust me I have. She pulls the trump card and tells me "because I control if you get your license or not and I think you need one." I'd love to get a return call from the supervisor. She even admitted to me there is no regulation and she just feels I should have one. I wish she would retire or I could change to one of the other registrars who don't have it out for me. I have heard others complain about the state but I can't believe how rediculous they really are.

Call the supervisor morning, noon and afternoon, every day of the week. Eventually, they'll get so sick and tired of you flooding them with voice mails, they'll actually call you back. I know it sounds weird, but being annoying works.

[wejo928]

Fencing

In PA it says we have to have a fenced yard. My property is 9,050 sq ft. To exspensive to enclose and I do not want to because I enjoy my openess and the kids from the neighborhood all like to play in my lat. They would spend so much time climbing the fence to chase balls or frizbies.
When the state was in in Nov she told me I just have to have a fence across the front of my property so the kids can not run into the street. I questioned her & she said with the 2 out of 3 neighbors haveing fences I do not need them back there. She approved my putting 10 of my little tikes gate pieces conected when needed. I was so happy she was willig to work with me. Now if the township was as nice, .

[gbcc]

That is nice she was willing to work with you. The state wont even budge for me. They would not tell me what kind of fence, how tall or anything. I didn't want to go buy a fence for hundreds of dollars and spend all my time putting it in just for this witch to tell me she would not approve it. From what I understand, the state lady my neighbor works with is very pleasant and helpful.

[GretasLittleFriends]

Since the state lady your neighbor works for is very pleasant, have you tried contacting her for advice? I know it's not "her job" to help you, as you're not part of her case load, but she may have some inside information to help you out. Just a thought.

[gbcc]

Since the state lady your neighbor works for is very pleasant, have you tried contacting her for advice? I know it's not "her job" to help you, as you're not part of her case load, but she may have some inside information to help you out. Just a thought.

Yes, I did call her. She was very nice and very applogetic but policy prohibits them from over stepping boundries on a co-workers case load. She was nice about it and explained why she couldn't help me. I respect that.

[Carole's Daycare]

I guess I would suck it up and put in the fence. It will solve the problem, make you and your parents feel safer, and since no one else has one, be a selling point for your daycare. I know it costs, but a fight w/ the licensor over something like this when, in most places a completely fenced and gated play area is accepted practice and often required, is asking for trouble in other areas down the road. You aren't going to get her fired, even if its personal because she hates you- she's union and asking for a decent fence at a daycare will not be construed as unreasonable.
On the bright side, you could get the commissioners to try to make it a regulation so everyone has to have one instead of up to the discretion of a single employee. If its required for licensing you can get state grants for it.

[Chickenhauler]

That is nice she was willing to work with you. The state wont even budge for me. They would not tell me what kind of fence, how tall or anything. I didn't want to go buy a fence for hundreds of dollars and spend all my time putting it in just for this witch to tell me she would not approve it. From what I understand, the state lady my neighbor works with is very pleasant and helpful.

If they can't come forth with a fence spec and give it to you, then they cannot say that the fence does not meet their specs, since they have no specs.

See what I'm saying?

I'd seriously be making it my #1 goal to see this lady in the unemployment line.

Sounds like she's got a bad case of.............

[gbcc]

Yes, you are absolutely right. And she used to be a provieder for 12 years before applying for this state position. You would think of all people she would understand!

She is like the cop that only became a cop because of daily wedgies and swirlies in school!

[Unregistered]

Fence your yard in

I live in NY and I am a neighbor of a daycare provider with no fence on a busy road I came across this site after witnessing the children sliding down a snow bank into the road ??????Is this for real ??? Put your fence up lady..or someone like me will someday will call on someone like you...signed the neighbor ...

[MarinaVanessa]

There is a provider at the end of my road that lives on the intersection corner, no fence. Another lady 5 homes down, no fence. I'm not angry that I need a fence. I am angry because I am being targetted and there are no regulations to support it.

You say that you have no regulations about fencing and so there should be no reason why you should have to build a fence if that is the case.

I extremely recommend that you call your licensing office right away and ask for your licensor's e-mail address and her supervisor's. Write her an e-mail and CC it to her supervisor. Ask for the regulation in writing where it states that you must have a fence, the part about it being 2 feet from the neighbor's property line and ask why it is required for you to have one and not other daycare provider's in your area. Don't tell them which daycare's in your area don't have them only that you've spoken to other family childcare's in your neighborhood and they aren't required to have them. Ask them to communicate with you by e-mail only or in writing by mail via certified mail. Trust me, if your licensor has his/her head up his/her butt and is only giving you a hard time, asking for this in writing could loosen them up.

I had an issue here myself not too long ago about me having a swing. In CA there are regulations against having walkers, excersaucers and bouncers but not baby swings. I had a licensor tell me that baby swings were against regulations and that I would be fined if I had one. I asked her for the regulation where it said it and she gave me the run around and to make a long story short sort of implied that she could make my life difficult. I wrote her an e-mail which logged all of our conversations and asked her again to give me the regulation in writing. She called me that same day very annoyed and again responded that it was regulation. I again told her to send me an e-mail with the regulation in writing and where I could look it up. I told her that I wanted to have in writing. She then faltered and then told me that it wasn't an official regulation and that it was "frowned upon". So then I asked her to make things clear that if I did have a swing that since there was no regulation against it that I could not be fined. She didn't say a word. She did go on to say that a baby could only be in a swing when the baby was awake, not when they were sleeping. I asked her to write me an e-mail so that I could have it in writing which she never did so I wrote her an e-mail paraphrasing our conversation. The next time I had a licensor come in for an inspection (our inspections are always surprise visits and hardly ever the same person) I asked about the regulation and what the other licensor said and all I got was a "Hmm".

Sorry to make it so long but I just wanted to show you that if you document everything and then bring it to their attention and ask for it in writing they start to get nervous because you are asking for policy that they are quoting and enforcing that may not even exist. This could lead to a lawsuit so they may back off rather than getting into trouble. Or maybe there is a regulation but at least they can give it to you (make sure they tell you where you can look it up as well) so that you can see the full reg for yourself so you know what you have to do. I think it's bull-honkey that they told you to have a fence and now that there's a problem with how close it is to your neighbors property line when there are others in your area that don't have a fence. If you do need a fence then they should have disclosed to you that there was a limit as to how close it could be to your neighbors property. Hearing things like this gets me all worked up .

Don't let them strong-arm and bully you. If they make it harder for you to get your license for defending yourself that's an even bigger lawsuit for retaliation.

[MarinaVanessa]

I live in NY and I am a neighbor of a daycare provider with no fence on a busy road I came across this site after witnessing the children sliding down a snow bank into the road ??????Is this for real ??? Put your fence up lady..or someone like me will someday will call on someone like you...signed the neighbor ...

I don't typically respond to unregistered guests but I will comment here. The DC provider in this case was deffinetely in the wrong and you should have reported this incident to your local licensing office so shame on you if you didn't and good for you if you did.

If there is no regulation against having a fence and there is proper supervision there should be no problem. I live in CA and this is what my regulations say about having a fence:

"(6) Outdoor play areas shall be either fenced, or outdoor play areas shall be supervised by the licensee or care giver."

I have a back yard that is fenced in but I sometimes take the littles outside to play and run around in the front area and that is not fenced in and I have never had an issue like this one. Do I do it often? No. Do I do it on days that I am full and have many very young children? No. Do I do it on days that I feel that I cannot be in complete control? No. Are the kids safe when I take them into the un-fenced front yard? Yes, because I am aupervising them properly and do not let them get anywhere near the street.

[jerrieabshire]

Save your money.

Let it go. The regulator is within her bounds. If you have more than one child to supervise, you have too many to keep safe in a front yard that is not enclosed.

You said you have a fenced in back yard. Why do you need to take your little ones out to the front to play? If it is simply a matter of segregating them from older, rougher kids, perhaps taking the fence you put up in the front and using it to divide the back might not be a bad idea. If it is a matter of space, then I think the idea of enclosing your front yard is the best one suggested.

[Unregistered]

your neighbor.

Why don't any of you think about your neighbors rights or concerns in this matter ? I moved into a house that had fencing almost from front to rear of my property and as soon as I moved in my neighbors started complaining about my fences , some of it needed repair and some fell down and I left them down . Now one neighbor says they have their license and they watch a few kids randomly , while their own kid wanders the area freely at seven yrs old , recently they took down their fence that separated my backyard from theirs and set up a swingset adjacent to my property line . I know that they are just kids but when I was their age I was always curious about what the neighbors had in their back yard . So you people who think that someone is unreasonable by wanting a fence put up should put yourselves in your neighbors shoes for a minute .

[Solandia]

I completely understand about the power-tripping egos of some licensing folks.

However, I think you were rather shortsighted by investing in 100' of fence that would not keep in a child. I wouldn't pass the fence either. If I was an inspector, it would appear to be a doing half a job & a waste of my time to come out to inspect something so obviously not was to requirements (the expectation being a fence to actually contain the children). Coming from the licensing angle, I can only imagine that it seems that you are going to continue being a "problem" to keep an eye out for.

I wouldn't have put that much money in a fence that was worthless in its intent. Our city doesn't allow a fence w/in 12" of another property, so kinda the same thing where you can't butt up to your neighbor's fence. Enclose the play area and be done with it. OR find if it is possible to put up and take down daily a temporary fence or structure for that corner, or see if you can get a permit for the shed.

At this point, I think you are ticked off, and being making it seem more impossible & dramatic than it really is. I get it, I would want to antagonize the person making things difficult as well. i cannot see the licensor backing down at this point...you are now completely engaged in a battle of the wills. Good luck.