Help With Twins Sleep Chaos!!!

[Willow]

It's been such a long time, I've missed so many of you here! I had my twins November of last year so they're coming up on 8 months old. I feel like as a provider I used to all the answers. Caring for multiple infants wasn't hard for me at all. Now that I have my boys though I'm really struggling to come up with sleep solutions! I've totally lost my touch and confidence!!!

I'm toying around with re-opening. Probably not full capacity licensed care for some time yet but maybe registered or even just for a single family, at least until the boys are a bit older. I can't however pull the trigger on doing so until I get a grip on some semblance of a sleep schedule. I'm dying of sleep deprivation here....3 hours give or take a night isn't enough to get me through the day caring for them, much less someone else's kids!

I can't for the life of me get them to nap lately, as in they just won't settle down for anything and very rarely actually fall asleep. Bedtime isn't much better in the sense that they'll go down easier, but wake many times a night.

Our day definitely has rhythm as far as when they wake, eat, (try to) nap and go to bed at night. Evan slept really well naps and nighttime (often going 8-9 hours at a stretch) from about 3 months through 5 months and then I lost that. Kavik has never slept really well, he naturally had a very "cat nappy" sleep rhythm from the get go. Now things have escalated with him to a point where he wakes at night in full blown screaming bloody murder fits. It can take several minutes to settle him back down and it's a terrifying way to be woken up for everyone in the room! They nap in separate cribs in separate rooms, but share a crib in our room at night (with Snuza monitors and on separate ends of the mattress). No blankets, bottles or rocking, just nuks and down they go. We do have a nighttime routine of diapers, massage, pj's and bottles.

Can I get a little help here from those who typically have all the answers??! If they were in YOUR daycare, what would you do to get a grip on at least the naps? I'll tell you, being pretty gung ho about AP, CIO isn't really in my nature and I'm not sure how I'd do it with the both of them at the same time anyway. I'd take about any and every suggestion up to that but I'm not sure I have it in me to go that far.


Thanks in advance for anyone who has the magical elusive (to me) answers

Other than that I hope everyone has been well!

[spedmommy4]

:hug: I don't have a magical answer for you. I have four kiddos of my own. I had them all before I was 25 and before I knew much about child development. I made sure all their physical needs were met, and if I knew they were tired I did let them cry it out. (Never more than 15 minutes) All 4 slept through the night by 4 months and did get into a good sleep wake cycle by 6 months.

That said, I worked with a lot of parents in early intervention who absolutely swore by the book, "The no cry sleep solution." Maybe there would be some good ideas in there that are more in line with AP . . .

[Willow]

That book seems to have great reviews on Amazon. Thanks for the suggestion spedmommy!

[mommyneedsadayoff]

I was a nanny for a few sets of twins and a set of triplets and the biggest thing was a consistent schedule. The schedule I followed was a 3 hour schedule.
7 am - wake and eat bottle/nurse
8:30 - down for nap
10 - wake and eat
rinse, repeat
So a full day was feedings at 7, 10, 1, 4, 7, 10
During the day, I woke them to eat, but at night, I only fed them if they woke on their own and seemed to need it. As they got older, they dropped some feeds and went to more of a 4 hour schedule. The schedule and the routine was very important and I fed all at the same time (you get pretty creative with triplets:. All were sleeping through the night from about 6-8 weeks or so. The schedule meant I never really had to do the cry it out. Not to say they didn't fuss here and there, but no full blown freak outs. When they started waking up about 40 minutes into naps, I did let them cry if I felt they needed to sleep longer, but a noise machine or fan was very helpful and so those lille phases of waking up early did not last long.

I don't have much advice on the AP style of how to do it, but I feel like if you can get a consistent routine down, everything will fall into place eventually. Congrats on the little ones (love their names!) and hope you get some sleep soon!:hug:

[Willow]

Thanks mommyneedsadayoff! (love that screen name btw )

I should clarify, our schedule for awhile has generally been

7am - wake and bottles, breakfast solids afterward
9-10 (fight) nap
12:00 bottle, lunch solids afterward
1-2/3 (fight) nap
5:00 bottle, dinner solids afterward
7:30/8:00 bedtime routine, change, massage, pj's, bottle

It's not a schedule in the sense that it's not rigid. If they want to sleep until 7:15 I do let them! Maybe that's a bad idea? I never had to be super buttoned down with my older two, and my first foster placements were a set of twin girls who I didn't need to schedule at all for them to sleep great right off the bat, so I'm hoping that's not necessary with the boys!

At night I used to get them both up for feeds and changes if one woke up, but tried to bite the bullet and not do that as I felt it was interrupting their natural sleep cycles and thought maybe THAT was a part of the problem. I did periodically co-sleep in the beginning, but that stopped around 3 months when I'd healed up from back problems relating to carrying them, their csection and I stopped nursing. They've been out of my bed and the arms reach co-sleeper since and I haven't changed anything else about their routine or space since. Always the same sheets, always the same type of jammies, house temp, nuks, diapers, positions etc.

[Unregistered]

I also had great results with the book no cry sleep solution!

[Michael]

Nice to see you again Willow.

[mamamanda]

Our local library carries the no cry sleep solution book. You might check your library if you don't want to buy it. It was a blessing with my first son. My 10 mo wasn't sleeping well in his room, but when we moved him to a crib in his room (he shares with his brother) he started sleeping soooooooo much better. I realized that A) he was waking each time dh or myself got up to potty, get a drink, etc (we're light sleepers) & B) I was waking up to tend to him every time he fussed even if he wasn't really crying. Moving him out of our room really helped. We just did this at 9 mo. Also, I'm wondering if maybe they are overly tired making it harder for them to sleep. That sounds crazy, but when you're overly tired the brain releases a hormone to keep you awake & help you function which makes it harder for babies to settle. My lo will be 11 mo tomorrow & he is just now transitioning from 3 naps down to 2. All babies are different, but he needs the sleep & always sleeps better at night if he napped well during the day.
He typically cries when I lay him down, but stops within 1-2 minutes & goes right to sleep and sleeps happily. I wouldn't let him scream, but that minute of sleepy cry seems to be his way of settling himself. Check out the babysleepsite.com. Great advice there regardless of your parenting style.
Just curious, is there a reason they nap in a different room in the day than at night? I'm just wondering if they might do better with a consistent sleep place both for naps & nighttime sleep.
Sleeping issues are rough on everyone. I wish you the very best!!!

[Play Care]

Our local library carries the no cry sleep solution book. You might check your library if you don't want to buy it. It was a blessing with my first son. My 10 mo wasn't sleeping well in his room, but when we moved him to a crib in his room (he shares with his brother) he started sleeping soooooooo much better. I realized that A) he was waking each time dh or myself got up to potty, get a drink, etc (we're light sleepers) & B) I was waking up to tend to him every time he fussed even if he wasn't really crying. Moving him out of our room really helped. We just did this at 9 mo. Also, I'm wondering if maybe they are overly tired making it harder for them to sleep. That sounds crazy, but when you're overly tired the brain releases a hormone to keep you awake & help you function which makes it harder for babies to settle. My lo will be 11 mo tomorrow & he is just now transitioning from 3 naps down to 2. All babies are different, but he needs the sleep & always sleeps better at night if he napped well during the day.
He typically cries when I lay him down, but stops within 1-2 minutes & goes right to sleep and sleeps happily. I wouldn't let him scream, but that minute of sleepy cry seems to be his way of settling himself. Check out the babysleepsite.com. Great advice there regardless of your parenting style.
Just curious, is there a reason they nap in a different room in the day than at night? I'm just wondering if they might do better with a consistent sleep place both for naps & nighttime sleep.
Sleeping issues are rough on everyone. I wish you the very best!!!

Bolded mine - my oldest was a very light sleeper and slept like crap when we tried co-sleeping. Once I moved her to her own crib in her own room she was STTN.

My youngest also did the cry/whimper to settle but because I didn't want her to CIO I ran in to intervene each time. At some point I realized I was causing her sleep issues

At 8 months have you started any solids or are you waiting until 1 year? I know some say it doesn't help, but I've had really hungry boys the last few years in my dc and found that it was hard for them to get deep sleep unless their bellies were full.

[mommyneedsadayoff]

Thanks mommyneedsadayoff! (love that screen name btw )

I should clarify, our schedule for awhile has generally been

7am - wake and bottles, breakfast solids afterward
9-10 (fight) nap
12:00 bottle, lunch solids afterward
1-2/3 (fight) nap
5:00 bottle, dinner solids afterward
7:30/8:00 bedtime routine, change, massage, pj's, bottle

It's not a schedule in the sense that it's not rigid. If they want to sleep until 7:15 I do let them! Maybe that's a bad idea? I never had to be super buttoned down with my older two, and my first foster placements were a set of twin girls who I didn't need to schedule at all for them to sleep great right off the bat, so I'm hoping that's not necessary with the boys!

At night I used to get them both up for feeds and changes if one woke up, but tried to bite the bullet and not do that as I felt it was interrupting their natural sleep cycles and thought maybe THAT was a part of the problem. I did periodically co-sleep in the beginning, but that stopped around 3 months when I'd healed up from back problems relating to carrying them, their csection and I stopped nursing. They've been out of my bed and the arms reach co-sleeper since and I haven't changed anything else about their routine or space since. Always the same sheets, always the same type of jammies, house temp, nuks, diapers, positions etc.

I do agree that maybe a consistent sleep environment would help too. If they nap in separate rooms during the day, maybe trying the same situation at night? I never woke at night, but the reason I did during the day is because it kept us on schedule for the day. If I didn't, then one baby may sleep way longer, so if I let them stagger away from a similar schedule, I ended up constantly feeding. Instead of wake, eat, play sleep for both at the same time, it would become wake (baby #1), eat (1), play (1), wake (baby #2), eat (2), sleep(1), play (2), sleep (2), ect. It would get too crazy for me, but I know that works for a lot of people too. Whatever you feel is best and the no cry book may be a great asset for you and their was another one that one of my AP friends used, but can't remember what it was called...happiest baby on the block maybe? If I figure it out, I will let you know! I need more coffee before my brain will function

[rosieteddy]

I would move them to their own beds and room.I would keep doing what you do daily.Put them down awake and maybe try a fan or white noise.If one wakes go to him and lay him down walk away.Hopefully he will get used yo it and start to self soothe.

[Willow]

I have them napping in different rooms because they don't go down like they do at bedtime . Bedtime is solid, no antics or funny business. I quite literally lay them down and boom, they're out. To the contrary, nap seems the BEST time for rolling, pulling up on the bars of the crib and chit chatting it up. They don't seem to notice whether they're in the same crib or not (as in they don't cry for each other or otherwise seem bothered about being alone) and I thought it offered the best odds that if even one fell asleep it would allow that one to stay asleep! Kavik stays in the crib in our room while Evan gets moved to the crib in their room. The set up is exactly the same, just the room is different, which really shouldn't impact things anyway because kids in daycare sleep at night in their beds but nap in providers home.....right??! I mean at least that's what I was banking on! Especially because we really want them accustomed to sleeping alone. Far too many twin mommies I network with say they didn't teach their kiddos that independence in infancy and now as 10 year old's freak out if they're not on top of each other at night

When they go down they are out for the count. We have dogs that sleep in our room, my husband has sleep apnea and has a machine for that (when he's home, he still works on the road Monday through Thursdays) and I don't go about my business quietly if they do manage to nap during the day. I'm worried if I cater to a sound controlled environment that if I do start daycare back up that'll become a disaster with them waking every time another child makes a noise :confused:

I do have a white noise sound machine I tried for a few months while initially putting them down for naps, but it didn't seem to do anything but act as a distraction for both!


ETA - they've been on solids for a couple of months now and they eat them at breakfast, lunch and dinner. We've done all run of the mill fruits/veg and homemade rice/oatmeal cereals....will be adding proteins in soon! Being preemie it's no surprise Kavik still struggles with textures a bit but he does ok. Evan annihilates anything I put in front of him regardless of bottle beforehand.

[Willow]

It's nice that after all this time this is still my best resource Michael!

[rosieteddy]

Why not try their own room at night? I myself have started to wake up because of my husband and the two dogs making noises(5 yrs ago I never heard them) Maybe the kids are in a sleep pattern that those sounds wake them?I never used sound or music for my own children.I worked in a daycare room for a year and they used music at nap.I was shocked how well it worked.When I reopened my daycare and everyone was in hearing distance music worked awesome.The phone could ring someone could cry out but the music kept everyone else asleep.I had the same station in every room from 1-3;30 kids woke when it was shut off.They learned that they could not talk or sit up until music was off.They learned this quite young to.I WOULD TRY FOR A WEEK TO GET THEM INTO THEIR OWN ROOM.oN A SIDE NOTE MY CHILDREN SHARED A ROOM AND i THINK IT MADE THEM CLOSER AS ADULTS(THOSE NIGHTLY WHISPERS SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITALS DIDN'T LOOK UP.

[Blackcat31]

It's been such a long time, I've missed so many of you here! I had my twins November of last year so they're coming up on 8 months old. I feel like as a provider I used to all the answers. Caring for multiple infants wasn't hard for me at all. Now that I have my boys though I'm really struggling to come up with sleep solutions! I've totally lost my touch and confidence!!!

I'm toying around with re-opening. Probably not full capacity licensed care for some time yet but maybe registered or even just for a single family, at least until the boys are a bit older. I can't however pull the trigger on doing so until I get a grip on some semblance of a sleep schedule. I'm dying of sleep deprivation here....3 hours give or take a night isn't enough to get me through the day caring for them, much less someone else's kids!

I can't for the life of me get them to nap lately, as in they just won't settle down for anything and very rarely actually fall asleep. Bedtime isn't much better in the sense that they'll go down easier, but wake many times a night.

Our day definitely has rhythm as far as when they wake, eat, (try to) nap and go to bed at night. Evan slept really well naps and nighttime (often going 8-9 hours at a stretch) from about 3 months through 5 months and then I lost that. Kavik has never slept really well, he naturally had a very "cat nappy" sleep rhythm from the get go. Now things have escalated with him to a point where he wakes at night in full blown screaming bloody murder fits. It can take several minutes to settle him back down and it's a terrifying way to be woken up for everyone in the room! They nap in separate cribs in separate rooms, but share a crib in our room at night (with Snuza monitors and on separate ends of the mattress). No blankets, bottles or rocking, just nuks and down they go. We do have a nighttime routine of diapers, massage, pj's and bottles.

Can I get a little help here from those who typically have all the answers??! If they were in YOUR daycare, what would you do to get a grip on at least the naps? I'll tell you, being pretty gung ho about AP, CIO isn't really in my nature and I'm not sure how I'd do it with the both of them at the same time anyway. I'd take about any and every suggestion up to that but I'm not sure I have it in me to go that far.


Thanks in advance for anyone who has the magical elusive (to me) answers

Other than that I hope everyone has been well!

I am sorry I have no advice... (babies/sleep is not my best area ) but SUPER nice to see you back! lovethis