Help Please

[Unregistered]

Help please!

I have a dcb who will be 4 in Jan, who is extremely hyperactive and basically out of control. I've had him since he was 2.5, so for a year and a half, and the parents and I have had countless conferences about his behaviour. For a while it got pretty good, during the summer, go figure, when we were outside for more than half of the day, but now that it's winter we don't go outside as often so there are fewer outlets for his hyperactivity. Today it was raining outside and I don't take the kids out in the rain. I let them play a little more vigorously in the playroom and it went fairly well, but once it came to lunch time dcb was back to making animal noises and playing with his food and generally being a brat (I don't like that word but it's the best I can come up with in my frustration at the moment) ....

After nap he was crashing toys into walls, running around despite countless reminders about using walking feet, screaming and yelling and bacially back to being completely out of control. And the other kids obviously feed off it, so I had 5 tornadoes swirling into each other and squealing. Literally. They were pretending to be tornadoes.

I really do try to be a good sport about these things, and I try to be understanding of the fact that it is gross outside and they need to get that energy out, but at the same time, this kid KNOWS the rules, and continuously flat out defies them.

When his parents get here he just gets worse. He'll stand, holding on to the gate at the bottom of the stairs and jump and squeal. He constantly makes animal noises when they get here and absolutely will NOT sit still. It takes both of them to hold him down, plus 10 minutes to just get his boots on at home time. Trying to have a conversation is impossible because he's basically jumping around going LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!!!!!

It is completely ridiculous. The days I don't have him are breezy. The kids play nicely together, I can sit on the floor and play with him, but he is totally exhausting. When he is here, I am ashamed to admit I don't like my job

Terming is not an option, I love the family (even if their parenting has me shaking my head more often than not), they appreciate me more than any other family I have, and they are very receptive to everything I say...

What I'm looking for are suggestions about how I can control him when he's here? Time outs are completely useless on him, any verbal cues are completely lost on him, and he's incredibly immature. The most obvious answer is being outside more often, but even that hasn't been helping as he'll build himself a little snow bank and just play with the diggers and tractors the entire time we're outside.....


BTW I am a registered member, just don't want this coming back to bite me

[nannyde]

Is he being physical with you, the other kids, your home, or his parents while in your home?

[Abigail]

Does he has an issue where he is on meds? It is so great that the parents are appreciative of you because they must deal with it at home. Can you create a "gym" time inside and then it will give this boy a time of day (or two if you want it) to unwind appropriately inside? We have tons of snow here and it shows in the kids they need to play hard or be crabby. LOL

Create gym games that you are in charge of that would be safe inside. Make one a team effort where you can put some balls in a bucket on one end of the room and have everyone line up by you. Have them run, grab one ball, and put it in a bucket by you. You can time it in general and have it be a goal that everyone works together to get it done in so-many minutes. One at a time rule will prevent many kids from running, just teach them to wait their turn and it should be every minute. While they wait they should learn to cheer on their team mate and clap. You can also do skipping, jumping jacks, or other movement ideas that will get them moving but not so chaotic that it's disruptive. Try doing this once or twice a day when you need it. You could also say if they're cheer quietly you will turn on the music.

Please share with us if anything works.

[Unregistered]

You mean hitting or being aggressive? No. He's very large for his age and will try to "squeeze" past other kids and knock them down, but he's not intentionally aggressive towards people. His aggression comes out in crashing toys together or into walls, or doing "cannonballs" into big pillows. He'll crawl around and rub his face on the carpet when he's frustrated or overstimulated. If he's angry he'll bang his fists into his legs and growl. When he's playing with other kids, he always wants to crash his toys into theirs. No words or explanations or interventions that I know about will get him to stop doing this. It's very frustrating to the other kids and, of course, to me.

[Unregistered]

Abigail, I really like that idea, I think I'll try that, thanks! That's definitely a kind of active playing I could tolerate and I know they'd love it.

[Abigail]

Abigail, I really like that idea, I think I'll try that, thanks! That's definitely a kind of active playing I could tolerate and I know they'd love it.

You're welcome. I don't know how many kids you have, but if you have six or less you can have them wait for their turn to run and get the ball and drop it in the bin. If you have more it might be best to team up in two according to size so they don't wait more then a minute and a half to two minutes before they get to run again. You can mix it up and have them run one time, then the next time they hop, then they can gallop....it will make it fun. Just make sure their is nothing they can fall on or hit their head.

You can also designate an area for duck duck goose.

[VTMom]

I have a 4 1/2 year old like this (he has been for the past year). When we're stuck inside, we do a lot of freeze dance, indoor "bowling" (I cut 3 different sized hole in an upside down box and they use small plastic balls - the kind in ball pits - as the bowling ball), bean bag toss.

My DCB seems to have a lot of issues with boundaries. If others are playing nicely, he'll disrupt them by destroying whatever it is they are doing, screams when others are talking, etc. Intervention doesn't usually work with him either. I'm interested to hear other ideas as well. It's the same here... when he's not here, life is easy! When he is, the majority of my attention is spent on him.

[BentleysBands]

sounds like my own ds whos 6 .. he was just recently diagnosed with ADHD with Oppositional Disorder ... hes HYPER as all get out . a great kid but a huge temper

and to add to it, i have another ADHD kid in daycare. both my ds and dck are on NO meds by choice so it can be tough to manage.

something that works for my ds is a dixie cup of mountain dew a few times a day when hes home. it works great with hyperactive kids and calms them....mayb try that? if hes truly hyperactive and cant control himself it WILL calm him....if its not adhd it wont do a thing .... our pedi suggested it in the beginning as a 'lets see' idea and long and behold it calms my ds like a dream. not like meds but helps him focus more. i will try and find the article i was given on this experiment too. it was great help

[countrymom]

maybe look up adhd and see what home remedies work, but why doesn't time outs work. is he worse during the morning or afternoon, what about home, is he like this at home, is he an only child, does he get alot of attention at home or get his own way. How about if he shadows you. The animal noises, I would have a problem with, I would remove and let him sit in my corner. I also think this kid is running you crazy because he can, what are your consequences for some of his nonsense.

[BentleysBands]

maybe look up adhd and see what home remedies work, but why doesn't time outs work. is he worse during the morning or afternoon, what about home, is he like this at home, is he an only child, does he get alot of attention at home or get his own way. How about if he shadows you. The animal noises, I would have a problem with, I would remove and let him sit in my corner. I also think this kid is running you crazy because he can, what are your consequences for some of his nonsense.

the animal sounds would drive me bonkers to but i know w/my own ds, he has 'ticks' which normally comes w/adhd and other things. his 'tick' is clucking his tongue...drives me insane but the more i acknowledge the more he does it.

[Blackcat31]

I don't know, but it sort of sounds like maybe this child has some undiagnosed issue that is beyond a childcare providers realm of management. It can be difficult to manage behaviors if you don't know why he behaves that way. What you described sounds as though this is not within the normal developmental behaviors for a kid his age and he probably needs to see someone so that everyone in his life knows how to manage his behavior. Have the DCP had him assesed yet? I had a similar experience with a child last year and his parents were in complete denial so they never took him in and when he finally got to Kindergarten the school has him in all sorts of specialized education programs....some I truely believe wouldn't have been necessary had the parents took him in earlier than 5 years old.

Challenging behaviors can be so tough! Not only for you, but on the other kids...is he harmful to the other children at all? I can appreciate the fact that the parents appreciate you but most the time it seems the kids who act horrible have parents who are grateful for you because they know no one else is going to put up with it. Situations like this affect everyone in care so it is sooooo HARD!

[Blackcat31]

something that works for my ds is a dixie cup of mountain dew a few times a day when hes home. it works great with hyperactive kids and calms them....mayb try that? if hes truly hyperactive and cant control himself it WILL calm him....if its not adhd it wont do a thing .... our pedi suggested it in the beginning as a 'lets see' idea and long and behold it calms my ds like a dream. not like meds but helps him focus more. i will try and find the article i was given on this experiment too. it was great help

Wow! That is crazy! I've never heard that before. Wouldn't it make just as much sense to just give them a couple spoonfuls of sugar? LOL!! I totally agree with you though about not medicating a child. I read a book called Ritalin; What Doctors Won't Tell You, and I would NEVER give any meds like that to my kid. I would try every method under the sun first...including Mnt Dew...which is the weirdest thing I've ever heard....

[Unregistered]

My personal belief is that there IS something going on developmentally with him. He has been assessed for autism but the OT and SLP firmly believed that he was behaving like a normal 3yo boy and closed the file. They went as far as to say "You're going to see a lot more of it from lots of kids so get used to it" basically. While he has a lot of Asperger's-like behaviour, I think more of that stems from being coddled and babied at home. That said, I do feel like there's some ADHD in there as well. The summer went really really well with him, so I began thinking that he could turn it on and off, and therefore it clearly was an issue of defiance. However, during the summer we were obviously outside quite a bit more so he had an outlet for his energy. Now that we're cooped up it's coming out again. I mentioned that to Dad and he instantly got defensive. "I am NOT medicating my child". He cut me off before I could even mention any suggestions so I've just left it alone because I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. They've been told by the experts (who observed him at home for about half an hour) that he's perfectly normal so now, despite the fact that they admit he's driving them completely nuts at home, they pretty much don't believe anything that I have to say.

We tried cutting out milk in the past and that didn't do anything. I have heard of giving caffeine to ADD/ADHD kids to help slow them down ... but I don't really feel it's my place to make that decision. Mom is a nurse so I'm sure she knows of that solution but I dunno how to bring it up without mentioning that I think he's got ADHD?

I'm glad, though, to hear others saying that this isn't developmentally normal behaviour for his age. I was starting to think that 4 year olds were brutal! Every child I've terminated has been 4 years old :S

[marniewon]

My personal belief is that there IS something going on developmentally with him. He has been assessed for autism but the OT and SLP firmly believed that he was behaving like a normal 3yo boy and closed the file. They went as far as to say "You're going to see a lot more of it from lots of kids so get used to it" basically. While he has a lot of Asperger's-like behaviour, I think more of that stems from being coddled and babied at home. That said, I do feel like there's some ADHD in there as well. The summer went really really well with him, so I began thinking that he could turn it on and off, and therefore it clearly was an issue of defiance. However, during the summer we were obviously outside quite a bit more so he had an outlet for his energy. Now that we're cooped up it's coming out again. I mentioned that to Dad and he instantly got defensive. "I am NOT medicating my child". He cut me off before I could even mention any suggestions so I've just left it alone because I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. They've been told by the experts (who observed him at home for about half an hour) that he's perfectly normal so now, despite the fact that they admit he's driving them completely nuts at home, they pretty much don't believe anything that I have to say.

We tried cutting out milk in the past and that didn't do anything. I have heard of giving caffeine to ADD/ADHD kids to help slow them down ... but I don't really feel it's my place to make that decision. Mom is a nurse so I'm sure she knows of that solution but I dunno how to bring it up without mentioning that I think he's got ADHD?

I'm glad, though, to hear others saying that this isn't developmentally normal behaviour for his age. I was starting to think that 4 year olds were brutal! Every child I've terminated has been 4 years old :S

Don't automatically assume that because mom's a nurse that she knows of all (or even any) natural home remedies. They don't teach them in nursing school. Or med school. If a doctor knows of them, it's because he/she has researched it themselves, not because it was taught in school. A good place to look for home remedies is www.earthclinic.com. They have some out-there ideas, but I have tried some of them for different ailments, and some do work.

I would set up a meeting/conference with dcp's - without child there. Explain to them what's been going on, and let them know that he needs to be re-assessed. Let them know that there are natural ways to deal with different behaviors without resorting to meds. Is he close to going to school? They will definitely assess him there, but in the meantime, you need to find a way to care for this boy without losing your mind! You could even suggest a naturopath/natural doctor, who would be able to assess and "treat" the child naturally.

[Blackcat31]

How about the other kids? Is he harmful to them at all? I would be worried about the other parents and what they feel affects their children in regards to this little boy. I would hate to lose a family because of another family....