Your Thoughts On The Government Shutdown

[My3cents]

Depending on whether those people are consider ESSENTIAL or NON_ESSENTIAL.... I agree with John Stossel

Note* I have NO real idea but I've heard that the majority of people being laid off or out of jobs are in non-essential positions....

Can't help but wonder how many of those non-essential positions do we really NEED...

...even if that means a lot of those 48,880 people lose their jobs.

It sucks but I can totally think of several positions in my local government that are non-essential but cost tax payers a lot.

We have people who over see people who over see others over seeing workers.......I definitely think our government could downsize ALOT.

I completely agree with this.......but those people need jobs. We need jobs and no excuses of why people can't work. Need to teach the skills of hard work and reliability and be worth something to an employer other then just a number that can easily be replaced. Need to teach people to be good to other people and hold them of value. When people are valued they want to work hard for others. We live in such a disposable world. We need jobs for all skill levels, need to stop catering to just the rich and poor and look out for the middle hard worker.

[Play Care]

Willow - credible meaning not an opinion piece from the Huffington post.

But I disagree with this

Socialized health care does not work and an overwhelming majority end up suffering endlessly for it

especially in light of the fact the populations of those countries routinely say they are happy/satisfied with the care they receive. I imagine if they, or family members were suffering their rates of satisfaction would diminish. I DO think there are flaws in the system - but again, there are flaws in any system. Almost 60% of Canadians claim they are happy with their system and only something like 20% of Americans say the same.

I don't think you can accurately compare one country to another in certain situations of illness/disease etc since every country has a different racial and cultural make up that greatly impacts/influences those statistics. kiwm?

On any forum the health care debate comes up on, it usually starts with the Americans saying they don't want a terrible "socialist" health system like Canada's. The Canadians come on and point out they like their health care, never had any real issues, or had a family member put to death by a death panel, etc. Then the argument becomes "well, we have a more diverse population or we have a greater population, etc." Which is very true. We do. But is that necessarily a reason why a single payer system wouldn't work here?
Maybe our diabetes/hypertension rates wouldn't be so high in certain communities if the population could afford to go to the clinic and get some preventative care.

[My3cents]

The penalty is not thousands of dollars. It goes into effect in 2014 and is 1% of income or $95 Adult, $47.50/child. In 2015, it goes up to 2% of income or $325 adult and $162.50/child with a maximum for family of $205. Blackcat - my daughter got her insurance through college because she couldn't be on ours. Do your children qualify to be on your insurance? I believe it is age 26 if college student. Your children should be calling the insurance exchange. I did a quick check and was happy to see the costs. This is the law of the land - upheld by the Supreme Court. No one likes change but holding a country hostage because you don't like the law is wrong.

so what does this penalty go for, what does it do? Is it going to figure out the health care issues? Is it going to take care of the people that don't have it? If that is the case it is showing that many people don't actually need it to begin with and or the bottom dollar line of being able to care for others is not as high as it is being made out to be or being forced upon us to pay- Many will end up paying the fine because they can't afford the difference......so what does this solve?

The law is very wrong on so many levels other then the few that can afford it and don't have to worry about it. I don't feel the shut down is right either

[Willow]

As I was reading through and discussing this with my husband he reminded me of a well publicised Canadian baby named Joseph Maraachli.

Essentially the CNHS told Joseph's patents that their was no cure or effective treatment for their sons degenerative condition and were *ordered* to consent to removing him from life support. Basically, they didn't think the baby's life was worth it and were tired of paying for and providing his care in the midst of an already swamped crunch of a health care system.
His parents right to make their own decisions for their child were completely ignored even despite appeals.

Ultimately they were able to somehow get him transferred to the United States so he could end his life the way his parents religious beliefs dictated.

It's a fight many in countries with socialized health care have to fight, but most not knowing if they can or how, typically succumb to.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Maraachli_case

[My3cents]

This is what I've been reading and was told several times as well which is why it really isn't being FORCED! A whopping $95-695 fine on my taxes? WOW! I really don't think the fine is that big of a deal, its really more about people having the option to get healthcare who didn't before. Due to a pre-existing condition I haven't been able to get private insurance in years. We paid $800/mo for insurance for years and about 5 yrs ago when the economy was bad (dh is self-employed and I was staying home at the time) we finally had to give it up and just go without insurance. We made too much for state insurance and didn't make enough to afford it. So I find it silly how NOW that people have to see it in their face they want to complain about it. The whole insurance system is just as scandalous and messed up than our gov't is and if people sat down and added it up, I would imagine people would probably take the fine over the craptastic coverage being offered. I don't blame Obama though. This is just a stepping stone towards where we should be like Canada and other countries. But the American people don't want to be like Canada, we like our guns, we like our top-notch military and that's fine.
The years we went without insurance we were remarkably healthy and had very few visits. I think we had 1 ER visit for my then toddler and it was about $1500. We paid OOP for our dr visists and it was about $75/visit. Now its up to $181/visit for cash pay at our office but I know other offices who are still $65-100 for a cash visit. Say you go 12x a year... that's still WAY less than what you would pay for insurance coverage and add in co-pays and deductibles at their huge "insurance" rate. When I got a PT job I took the health insurance (which basically took my whole paycheck) and the coverage was horrible. Once we hit our max I saw a bill and the way it was charged and was in shock! I explained that our insurance hit its max coverage and if I could get a cash pay discount and when I compared the bills it was INSANE! They charged me $10 for a vaccine that they bill at $500 to the insurance!!! So when you pay your 20% deductible, you're paying 20% of $500. Your insurance company only pays their negotiated rate of reimbursement. The whole thing just sickens me. Dh & I no longer have coverage but our kids do. We'll take the $190 fine over paying thousands for private coverage.

eta- I know that this doesn't take into consideration a horrific accident that would require a hospital stay and such, but there is emergency coverage for situations like this. Most hospitals will work with you on it if you don't have coverage. I was hospitalized in July and know how easily it can happen!

my point...so what does making it mandatory fix?

[My3cents]

Exactly.

Your sons predicament is the exact scenario that's going to nail all of middle class America too. It's just terrible.




As far as the individuals here who have never heard the downfalls of socialized health care in not quite sure how to respond to that. The information out there about how people have to wait months or even years just to get in to see a doctor, regardless of emergent need is ASTOUNDING. Not to mention the fact that if the powers that be think your life is not worthy of saving they will simply deny your access to any care at all.......it's all incredibly well publicized and documented.

thats why much of Canada was coming down to USA for care-

[MotherNature]

The penalty is not thousands of dollars. It goes into effect in 2014 and is 1% of income or $95 Adult, $47.50/child. In 2015, it goes up to 2% of income or $325 adult and $162.50/child with a maximum for family of $205. Blackcat - my daughter got her insurance through college because she couldn't be on ours. Do your children qualify to be on your insurance? I believe it is age 26 if college student. Your children should be calling the insurance exchange. I did a quick check and was happy to see the costs. This is the law of the land - upheld by the Supreme Court. No one likes change but holding a country hostage because you don't like the law is wrong.

Exactly what I was going to say. My college agers are on my insurance, & I believe that with the ACA, our rates go down for better coverage.

[craftymissbeth]

Does anyone know if when you go to healthcare.gov and begin the application process can you view the offered options and then save it for later? Or are you required to make the decision then and there?

[Blackcat31]

Does anyone know if when you go to healthcare.gov and begin the application process can you view the offered options and then save it for later? Or are you required to make the decision then and there?

When I went to that site, I choose my state. It sent me to my state's site.

From there I was able to see all the different plans and prices WITHOUT having to enroll or fill anything out.

It said once I was ready to apply to click a different button but I was able to see and compare BEFORE applying.

HTH

[Play Care]

thats why much of Canada was coming down to USA for care-

That's actually not true. I'll see if I can pull it up, but hospitals near the border of Canada report that they rarely, if ever have Canadians come in for health care. We may view their health service as "failing" but overall they are happy with it (according to what I've read). Bottom line, they are not carpooling over the border to pay out of pocket for health care.

[Willow]

Re

Exactly what I was going to say. My college agers are on my insurance, & I believe that with the ACA, our rates go down for better coverage.

If that is not what's happened in other countries, what makes you think that's going to happen here?

Not to mention the fact that the coverage options for Obamacare are just terrible. The bare bones minimum bronze plan covers only 60% of approved services. If people can't afford the coverage itself, much less all that isn't covered, how is that going to improve your private premiums?

[Willow]

That's actually not true. I'll see if I can pull it up, but hospitals near the border of Canada report that they rarely, if ever have Canadians come in for health care. We may view their health service as "failing" but overall they are happy with it (according to what I've read). Bottom line, they are not carpooling over the border to pay out of pocket for health care.

I'm still waiting for some documentation for everything you're writing. Anyone can say
they've heard and read anything but where?

[craftymissbeth]

When I went to that site, I choose my state. It sent me to my state's site.

From there I was able to see all the different plans and prices WITHOUT having to enroll or fill anything out.

It said once I was ready to apply to click a different button but I was able to see and compare BEFORE applying.

HTH

oh ok... I was afraid to get on there and try it out, but finally got the courage to look

It looks like in my state I can enroll directly from healthcare.gov... but I'm afraid to enter my info in there