My Defiant Son

[Willow]

First off I'm glad I'm not alone in this, yet sad that there are others going through it too. My 7 year old is a lot like yours. He behaves at school and at friends' houses, basically everywhere I'm not around and it breaks my heart. He thrives on structure and as much as I try I cant do 100% structure at home and I feel like I shouldn't have to, he needs to learn how to behave in less structure. He literally doesn't know how to entertain himself. If left with nothing to do he will go looking for trouble, pester his brother, throw and kick balls in the house, etc. I take him outside and play with him everyday, he is involved in every sport, which he loves and is really good at. I'm hoping that someday he will grow out of this,that's the only thing getting me through.

Learning is a process though, not merely a destination

Learning to behave in less structured environments cannot be achieved by most kids like this without a tapered approach. You give a little, but not all, to work up to the goal. All growing brains are different merely hoping for while demanding compliance for all will rarely net the results you're after. If all is too much at some point you scale back, and work your way up.

[spud912]

You need the Natural Child Project. http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._guidance.html
When was the last time you were shamed, humiliated, or hurt, and you actually felt more-cooperative? Nope, never. I'm not trying to start a debate but spanking have been proven psychologically harmful and have been proven to have to long-term positive effects. The only positive effect is immediate behavior correction. Seriously, I have been researching this for years and there is insurmountable evidence showing spanking does more harm than good. If you did something your DH didn't like and he destroyed something you cared about, would you not be pissed at him? Would you "learn your lesson"? I'm not trying to be harsh because I understand that you are having a difficult time and it's affecting your family in a negative way. But, if you can see that the way you're doing things is not working, don't continue doing the same thing and expecting different results. We all expect so much of our children but don't hold ourselves to the same standards... For instance, I ask my son to do something, and my ego tells me he needs to do it right now. Not for safety or anything, but because I said so and I'm his mom. Well, DS is engaged in some activity and doesn't want to stop. I get angry, he doesn't listen, meltdown ensues. Instead, try viewing everything from a different perspective. I am cooking dinner. DS comes to me and needs something. I am busy and think that he can wait. He wants me to do it right now and I don't comply. How is this any different than the first situation but with the roles reversed? I can't hold my son to a higher standard than I hold myself. I have to respect that he is a person, too. People deserve respect, and children are people too. Starting very young with my son, I have always tried to treat him with respect. To allow him some control over his life. If I were you, I would start doing some research online. Reading as much as possible, about every topic related to discipline, punishment, and parenting. Read with an open-mind. You will find things that you love, things you hate, and things that you are curious about. But, with an open- mind, you might be able to view things differently than you ever have before.

I completely agree that you should treat your child with respect and they will respect you more. However, there are many circumstances (such as your example), where your child should not expect the same behavior out of an adult as how they should be treated. For example, a child asks you for something when you're busy and you tell them in a minute. Well as an adult you could be standing over a stove where the dinner is being made for everyone....you can't step away just to please your own child. In the case of asking your child to step away from their toys, it's completely different because you may have more pressing things for them to do. You are the adult and know what's best for everyone.....a child innately only knows what's best for them. While they should be treated with respect, they should also be compliant with the parents demands.

[Willow]

I've given up on the fact that my daughter acts better for others because in all honesty, they are not her parents. She isn't going to challenge them in the same way she challenges me.

I don't disagree with you there.

And that difference is one of the trademarks of a fantastic bond so it's hard to see it as a complete negative

[Heidi]

I completely agree that you should treat your child with respect and they will respect you more. However, there are many circumstances (such as your example), where your child should not expect the same behavior out of an adult as how they should be treated. For example, a child asks you for something when you're busy and you tell them in a minute. Well as an adult you could be standing over a stove where the dinner is being made for everyone....you can't step away just to please your own child. In the case of asking your child to step away from their toys, it's completely different because you may have more pressing things for them to do. You are the adult and know what's best for everyone.....a child innately only knows what's best for them. While they should be treated with respect, they should also be compliant with the parents demands.

I agree it's about balance. I show my kids tons of respect for the fact that they are my equal emotionally. Their feelings are the same as mine; love, anger, joy, crabbiness, creativity.

However, they are not my equal when it comes to life experience, and they don't have the responsibilities we adults do. They don't have to worry if there's food on the table, a roof over their head. That is provided for them. With responsibility comes a new set of rights. The right to say "because I said so" now and then.

So, I see giving a heads up that it's time for dinner soon as a kindness, not as something they are entitled to. Playing a computer game does not equal my spending 45 minutes preparing a meal. Building a Lego tower, while valid and important to them, does not equal me working 11 hours each day to make sure they eat and have things.

I guess I consider myself the benevolent ruler around here. ::

[craftymissbeth]

I didn't mean to seem like I don't want to stop spanking him... I'm so ready to try something new. Ill explain a little about how I handle unacceptable behavior... I'm afraid I've come off as spanking is all I do.

If he has done something wrong or has downright refused to do what is expected of him then he gets ONE redo. That's his chance to think again about his choice and how that choice is going to affect him. Sometimes he changes his choice, but usually he holds his ground. If his choice is unacceptable, then I remind him of the consequence (extra chores, lose a privilege, etc.) and then follow through. I still expect the original request to be taken care of, but by now he's out of control. I keep calm up until this point, but this is where my patience runs thin.

One thing that I tell him every time he's tantrum ing is that it's ok that he's angry, but the way he's handling it is not. I never, ever try to reason with him or negotiate while he's out of control. And I NEVER spank him while he's tantrum ing or for tantrum ing.

As far as trying to avoid his triggers.. I know that he's starving by the time he comes home from school so his snack is ALWAYS waiting for him at the table. He is allowed to eat his snack, but must immediately take the dog out as soon as he's finished. After that, he's free to decompress for awhile before his other chores and homework are to be done. He takes a bath and then cuddles with us while we talk and watch some tv. Then bedtime is 8:30 and he wakes up at 6:45. I know what situations are going to be tough and do my best to work out how to avoid meltdowns.

As far as research goes... I'm a natural researcher and I crave learning new things. As soon as I have a problem or question the first thing I do is start researching.

In response to tratliff:
I AM the boss in my home. My child will NOT demand my attention while I'm busy. I agree with Heidi and Spud.


What am I doing wrong with the above?

[Heidi]

I didn't mean to seem like I don't want to stop spanking him... I'm so ready to try something new. Ill explain a little about how I handle unacceptable behavior... I'm afraid I've come off as spanking is all I do.

If he has done something wrong or has downright refused to do what is expected of him then he gets ONE redo. That's his chance to think again about his choice and how that choice is going to affect him. Sometimes he changes his choice, but usually he holds his ground. If his choice is unacceptable, then I remind him of the consequence (extra chores, lose a privilege, etc.) and then follow through. I still expect the original request to be taken care of, but by now he's out of control. I keep calm up until this point, but this is where my patience runs thin.

One thing that I tell him every time he's tantrum ing is that it's ok that he's angry, but the way he's handling it is not. I never, ever try to reason with him or negotiate while he's out of control. And I NEVER spank him while he's tantrum ing or for tantrum ing.

As far as trying to avoid his triggers.. I know that he's starving by the time he comes home from school so his snack is ALWAYS waiting for him at the table. He is allowed to eat his snack, but must immediately take the dog out as soon as he's finished. After that, he's free to decompress for awhile before his other chores and homework are to be done. He takes a bath and then cuddles with us while we talk and watch some tv. Then bedtime is 8:30 and he wakes up at 6:45. I know what situations are going to be tough and do my best to work out how to avoid meltdowns.

As far as research goes... I'm a natural researcher and I crave learning new things. As soon as I have a problem or question the first thing I do is start researching.

In response to tratliff:
I AM the boss in my home. My child will NOT demand my attention while I'm busy. I agree with Heidi and Spud.


What am I doing wrong with the above?

Sounds like you ARE doing all the right things.

I didn't think your "go to" response was spanking. I suspect that the threat sort of looms, though, that Dad will lay down the hammer in the end.

Without being there, it is hard to say. It SOUNDS like your dh thinks your too soft because you let the negotiations go on too long. It also sounds like maybe kiddo knows how to push your buttons, and some of the tantrums are meant to do just that.

We women tend to use too many words sometimes. We want to make it right, give them a chance. Your husband probably just cuts to the chase. Maybe somewhere in the middle, consistently from both of you, would help?

Personally, I'd just send him to his room immediately when he starts melting down. No more "I understand" or "you can be frustrated" while he's ramping up. Just GO! If he tears his room apart, so be it. Let it go on for as long as it does. When he's calm, THEN talk to him (I know you were angry, do you think that was the best way to handle it?).

Don't try to fix his stuff, either. He breaks it, he lives without it. He will learn eventually...

[craftymissbeth]

Sounds like you ARE doing all the right things.

I didn't think your "go to" response was spanking. I suspect that the threat sort of looms, though, that Dad will lay down the hammer in the end.

Without being there, it is hard to say. It SOUNDS like your dh thinks your too soft because you let the negotiations go on too long. It also sounds like maybe kiddo knows how to push your buttons, and some of the tantrums are meant to do just that.

We women tend to use too many words sometimes. We want to make it right, give them a chance. Your husband probably just cuts to the chase. Maybe somewhere in the middle, consistently from both of you, would help?

Personally, I'd just send him to his room immediately when he starts melting down. No more "I understand" or "you can be frustrated" while he's ramping up. Just GO! If he tears his room apart, so be it. Let it go on for as long as it does. When he's calm, THEN talk to him (I know you were angry, do you think that was the best way to handle it?).

Don't try to fix his stuff, either. He breaks it, he lives without it. He will learn eventually...

Thank you for your advice! It has definitely helped a lot

[Laurel]

We used to have a punching bag in our garage but ours were a bit older. Not sure if 6 is too young for that or not. Our garage was right under our family room. Sometimes the whole family room floor would seem to vibrate but they got their anger out....

Laurel

[craftymissbeth]

We used to have a punching bag in our garage but ours were a bit older. Not sure if 6 is too young for that or not. Our garage was right under our family room. Sometimes the whole family room floor would seem to vibrate but they got their anger out....

Laurel

That's an awesome idea!

[Heidi]

That's an awesome idea!

I think it's a balance between letting your anger out and just not being so angry sometimes, though.

My ex husband said once "I have an anger management problem" I said "No, you have an ANGER problem...you are always angry".

Reminds me of Dr. Banner's line in the last Avengers movie about "That's my secret...I'm always angry".

[Sunshine75]

My son went through this between the ages of 6-8. He went to a counselor for several months and that really helped. What we learned is that spanking was causing him to not see our hands as loving but more as hurting. I would recommend using a spoon versus a hand. I did not agree with everything the counselor suggested and that is where going to a counselor causes you to be really sure about how you want to parent or it throws you through the ringer even more. We listened, took some advice and left the rest alone. One thing that really helped is that he mentioned that children don't really understand feelings and what they look like so he made a chart with different faces on it and taught our son what anger, happy, sad, frightened, etc looks like. It was a huge blessing because once he could connect a face with a feeling he could say Mom I am angry or I could ask are you angry, he would make a face and say yes. Now it has backfired on me because I can't tell you how many times he looks at my face and says, "are you frustrated"! Or Mom, you sure get frustrated alot! I explain it's how it is sometimes when you become an adult and life is not as simple. I would also recommend having him go to his room when you notice him starting to get upset. I would tell my son, "you need to go to your room now to cool down and when you can talk without being angry then let me know and we'll talk about how your feeling and thinking." Of course, first, he had to understand what anger was and looked like. He is now 10 and we are getting along and doing so much better. Keep your head up and stay strong. You know what is best as his parent. Also, please, please do not let your husband get away with making you feel like this is your fault. As you can see from the posts as far as the east is from the west, with different personalities and styles, as parents we all go through this.

[Unregistered]

Here is you use anything but your hand for spanking it is considered abuse and CPS will get involved. I can't remember the whole story it was about a year ago but a mom used a spoon on her adopted 8 year old cps got involved and took the 8 year old and 3-4 other children out of the home.

[Cradle2crayons]

Here is you use anything but your hand for spanking it is considered abuse and CPS will get involved. I can't remember the whole story it was about a year ago but a mom used a spoon on her adopted 8 year old cps got involved and took the 8 year old and 3-4 other children out of the home.

The rare time I've spanked my two, its been hand only.

I do not agree with using objects in that manner.