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  • My Defiant Son

    I need help with my ds. I badly need help... I am beyond frustrated that I'm near tears. I'm so sorry if this is long.

    He's 6 and in the first grade. We (mainly me) have had problems with his behavior since he was about 3. He tells me "no" for every single thing I ask of him. It feels like it's a habitual thing, but he sticks to it and doesn't waiver. He simply downright refuses to do anything I ask without a fight. It's a rare day that he says "ok, mom" and just does it.

    He screams... a lot. Not only during arguments, but also just randomly. He will yell out or screech at random times while he's playing. When he does it out of nowhere it's like a high pitched "meh" or "aaah". I'm cringing just thinking about the sounds he makes

    He seems to find a target and just bug them until they can't take it anymore... both children and adults! Kind of like "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you". I'm fairly positive he drives my family insane.

    He has no problems at school and is pretty much a model student. He is kind to his friends when they are here and seems to save his problem behavior for family.

    Discipline wise I try so hard to be consistent, but I'm exhausted. Ive grounded him for several weeks and it doesn't phase him. At one point I bagged up ALL of his toys and threw them in the garage! He didn't care one bit. DH and I both spank him and for DH he will cry and say sorry, but for me he literally sits there calmly and TRIES NOT TO LAUGH!

    Just today I spanked him and told him to go to his room and he grabbed the closest thing to him and threw it. It was his Lego creation that he'd been working on and was so proud of. He didn't care. He will grab and destroy whatever is in his way while in a fit of rage. He kicks and hits the walls.

    I have not mentioned any of this to his doctor... I have been certain (and DH certainly still believes) that this is all my fault. I discipline consistently. I AM tough on him when I feel he needs it.. which lately is so often. But he sees me baby him (while he's good, of course) and feels that is the cause of all of this. He IS my baby and will always be my ONLY baby, but I'm well aware of when to give him lovin's and when not to.


    I desperately need help and you all have been so great with all of your knowledge. I'm so tired of feeling like a bad mother and that I've let my child down.

  • #2
    So sorry you are going through this. The first thing I am curious about is why haven`t you mentioned this to his dr. ? He\ she is a valuable source of information and referrals. Secondly, when he is being calm, can you sit down with him and have him draw you some pictures ? Something is maybe going on and he is having a problem localizing it. Ask him to draw some pics of your family, of his teachers, his school friends. While he does this, you could also draw some pics of the family, your house, the daycare children, etc. Then maybe draw something like your car and say " this is my car, but I wish I had THIS car. " and draw a different car, or something in that ilk. He may share what bothering him through this exercise. Try it every day when he is relaxed. Or take him out to dinner and do that while you are waiting for the food. But also please mention it to his dr. Also contact his teacher or a school counselor. They may have some insight on what is going on. Good luck.

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    • #3
      My daughter is exactly like that. We DID tell the peds dr and she was not concerned, however gave us a referral to a counselor at my insistence. The counselor said no real problems with her, she's just trying to find her independence and will do what she can get away with. It's EXHAUSTING to say the least that whenever you have something that you need her to do, she pitches a major fit. She likes to scream, cry, hit, and she's mean to everyone. There are days I'm not sure I even like her! She is by far my hardest-ever child. My son was like her for awhile but mellowed out around 8 years old and now is much better. He is extremely sensitive so every once in awhile he acts like a fool. But SHE just takes the cake. I have never seen a child behave so horribly until I met her. She was the first of my kids to EVER give me a hard time in a public venue as well. I remember she wanted to sit by me at dinner but it wasn't her turn (kids have to rotate so that everyone gets a turn) and she started crying. I didn't even know what to do! It was the first time it happened. She's extraordinarily jealous of EVERYTHING the other kids get/see/do/have that she doesn't get to do even if she had not a single inkling to do it/have it before!

      I decided to sign her up for a few things where she HAS to be a part of a team and learn that sometimes, she can't do what she wants, but has to do what is necessary to be successful and that sometimes, even that will not always mean she 'wins' everything. I am PRAYING it works, because I'm at my wits end. She is ALSO six years old. My other concern with her? She's influencing her twin brother a little bit as well and he's become more whiny and talks back more than he did before. He's just kind of started it recently where SHE has been doing it since age 2yo.

      I wish I had answers for you, but truthfully, I'm still searching for answers of my own. Peds dr says normal, counselor says normal, teachers say normal for this age....I hope it's a "phase" in young childhood that she outgrows at some point. I did notice now that we've moved into a bigger house where she can have her own space, SOME improvement, however, she's taking some of her anger issues out at school on the playground and isn't being as nice as she should be to her friends.

      It makes me wonder why I ever chose to be a parent, sometimes, because I feel like somehow we are failing her and she will really do something crazy!

      Comment


      • #4
        The only thing that jumps out at me right off the bat is that with a child like this, I would never spank.

        To me, a spanking or "swat" is an exclamation point. Something you might do with a pretty young child who is doing something dangerous or blatant and has been duly warned.

        Please don't think I'm criticizing...I am sure you are doing what you have always thought is best. But, it's not working, so I'm offering another perspective.

        A child who has any violent tendencies...throwing things, breaking things, hitting; does not need any reinforcement about "this is how we handle things". Spanking is not going to work with a child like this. In fact, it's probably making the situation worse.

        Your son sounds very bright and persistent. Spending hours building a Lego creations demonstrates that. So, you have a bright, persistent child. A child who is easily frustrated and then lashes out.

        I grew up with a friend like that, and his parents tried to spank it out of him. He's 50 now and still angry all the time.

        It's late so I can't answer any more tonight, but I'll see if I can find some links tomorrow and come up with some ideas. I'm sure the other ladies (and gents) here will have some insights as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          Se7en - the reason I have never mentioned it to his doctor is because I basically feel ashamed that I have hurt my child in some way to make him like this. I felt (and still feel somewhat) that I can fix this. I will be making an appointment with his ped to see what he thinks.

          Babyluver - This is what I'm afraid of with ds's doc. I don't want to go in there and have him look at me like i have two heads. I'm so sorry you're going through this, too, and I hope you are able to get things figured out. It's beyond frustrating!

          Heidi - yes, I do agree that spanking isn't helpful, but NOTHING is. Besides the fact that I know it's doing no good DH refuses to believe that anything else will work. If he refuses to change what he's doing and continues to spank then I feel as though I have to as well. If anything we at least have to be consistent. I do wholeheartedly agree with you, though.

          Comment


          • #6
            I do want to add that he doesn't behave like this 100% of the time. There are triggers, but despite everything I've tried he still melts into a puddle of angry emotions. Things like too much going on around him, crowds, being tired or hungry, coming from school to home etc. are a few things that set him off. it's like he gets a little out of control and it quickly snowballs into him being so out of control that there is no salvaging it. He just cannot calm down. It can easily go on for hours even when he's alone in his room.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by craftymissbeth View Post
              I do want to add that he doesn't behave like this 100% of the time. There are triggers, but despite everything I've tried he still melts into a puddle of angry emotions. Things like too much going on around him, crowds, being tired or hungry, coming from school to home etc. are a few things that set him off. it's like he gets a little out of control and it quickly snowballs into him being so out of control that there is no salvaging it. He just cannot calm down. It can easily go on for hours even when he's alone in his room.
              The only red flag I see is that he has model behavior at school.


              The good part about this is at apparently he DOES know appropriate behavior. And that's a very positive thing.

              As a mom of an abbreviated child (my loving term for my daughter with too many abbreviations in her diagnoses) its easy to think you can fix this.

              I would DEFINATELY mention is to his pediatrician. But I would be very honest no matter how hard it is. The doc needs to know e differences in behavior so they can help yu guys appropriately.

              Comment


              • #8
                also, is he getting enough sleep, and getting enough food. I would also do a week journal and write down the triggers.

                and as for the spanking, don't worry about it, sometimes you have to because nothing else works.

                also talk to your dr and see what he says, I think the thing that I find wierd is the screaming. Children shouldn't just scream out of the blue. You need to mention this to the dr.

                also, is he involved in activities this may help too. Like soccer or gymnastics.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You need the Natural Child Project. http://www.naturalchild.org/articles..._guidance.html
                  When was the last time you were shamed, humiliated, or hurt, and you actually felt more-cooperative? Nope, never. I'm not trying to start a debate but spanking have been proven psychologically harmful and have been proven to have to long-term positive effects. The only positive effect is immediate behavior correction. Seriously, I have been researching this for years and there is insurmountable evidence showing spanking does more harm than good. If you did something your DH didn't like and he destroyed something you cared about, would you not be pissed at him? Would you "learn your lesson"? I'm not trying to be harsh because I understand that you are having a difficult time and it's affecting your family in a negative way. But, if you can see that the way you're doing things is not working, don't continue doing the same thing and expecting different results. We all expect so much of our children but don't hold ourselves to the same standards... For instance, I ask my son to do something, and my ego tells me he needs to do it right now. Not for safety or anything, but because I said so and I'm his mom. Well, DS is engaged in some activity and doesn't want to stop. I get angry, he doesn't listen, meltdown ensues. Instead, try viewing everything from a different perspective. I am cooking dinner. DS comes to me and needs something. I am busy and think that he can wait. He wants me to do it right now and I don't comply. How is this any different than the first situation but with the roles reversed? I can't hold my son to a higher standard than I hold myself. I have to respect that he is a person, too. People deserve respect, and children are people too. Starting very young with my son, I have always tried to treat him with respect. To allow him some control over his life. If I were you, I would start doing some research online. Reading as much as possible, about every topic related to discipline, punishment, and parenting. Read with an open-mind. You will find things that you love, things you hate, and things that you are curious about. But, with an open- mind, you might be able to view things differently than you ever have before.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree with C2C. Your family doctor should refer you to a specialist who can either give you strategies to help your son or help find the cause.

                    Also, although consistency is important, it serves no purpose if it's destructive in the long run.

                    If you were both trying to put out a fire by throwing lighter fluid on it, you certainly wouldn't say "well, we have to be consistent". To further the metaphor, your son is starting the fires, and instead of teaching him how to put fires out, you're essentially fueling them.

                    I realize that your husband is doing the only thing that he knows how to do. It's not "this is best", it's "this is the only thing I can think of because nothing else works, either". But, spanking is NOT working, or you'd have a perfect by now.

                    There are all sorts of reasons your son could be having these meltdowns. My 2nd son got weepy when his blood sugar was low. We learned as he got older that if he started to feel like that, a small serving of chocolate milk or a slice of toast with p. butter helped. As an older kid, he learned to anticipate that and listen to his body before he got funky.

                    Other kids have issues with diet, maybe aren't getting good quality sleep, or just need some help learning how to properly channel frustrations. You need to talk to your doctor a.s.a.p.! Please don't be embarrassed. You are your son's advocate, and you will be letting him down if you don't explore every solution!

                    So, stop beating yourself up about what you are doing wrong, and do what you know you should be doing right. Get help! :hug:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by craftymissbeth View Post
                      I need help with my ds. I badly need help... I am beyond frustrated that I'm near tears. I'm so sorry if this is long.

                      He's 6 and in the first grade. We (mainly me) have had problems with his behavior since he was about 3. He tells me "no" for every single thing I ask of him. It feels like it's a habitual thing, but he sticks to it and doesn't waiver. He simply downright refuses to do anything I ask without a fight. It's a rare day that he says "ok, mom" and just does it.

                      He screams... a lot. Not only during arguments, but also just randomly. He will yell out or screech at random times while he's playing. When he does it out of nowhere it's like a high pitched "meh" or "aaah". I'm cringing just thinking about the sounds he makes

                      He seems to find a target and just bug them until they can't take it anymore... both children and adults! Kind of like "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you". I'm fairly positive he drives my family insane.

                      He has no problems at school and is pretty much a model student. He is kind to his friends when they are here and seems to save his problem behavior for family.

                      Discipline wise I try so hard to be consistent, but I'm exhausted. Ive grounded him for several weeks and it doesn't phase him. At one point I bagged up ALL of his toys and threw them in the garage! He didn't care one bit. DH and I both spank him and for DH he will cry and say sorry, but for me he literally sits there calmly and TRIES NOT TO LAUGH!

                      Just today I spanked him and told him to go to his room and he grabbed the closest thing to him and threw it. It was his Lego creation that he'd been working on and was so proud of. He didn't care. He will grab and destroy whatever is in his way while in a fit of rage. He kicks and hits the walls.

                      I have not mentioned any of this to his doctor... I have been certain (and DH certainly still believes) that this is all my fault. I discipline consistently. I AM tough on him when I feel he needs it.. which lately is so often. But he sees me baby him (while he's good, of course) and feels that is the cause of all of this. He IS my baby and will always be my ONLY baby, but I'm well aware of when to give him lovin's and when not to.


                      I desperately need help and you all have been so great with all of your knowledge. I'm so tired of feeling like a bad mother and that I've let my child down.
                      I know exactly how you feel! I don't know if you saw or read but I am the OP of the out of control child from a few weeks ago. I was at my wits end! We had been to every doctor in the area and no one could figure out what was going on. She was finally diagnosed! Since the diagnosis things have gotten so much better. We now have a treatment plan, which has helped a lot! Still have bad days but no where near as bad! I would highly suggest talking to your ped. It can be very hard to do it because you feel like in a way you have failed but you have not! You are a wonderful mother!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The biggest difference between school and home life is typically structure. How structured is his home life? My son struggles in the same way at times, and I know it helps tremendously to whip up a minute by minute schedule for him when he starts to get out of whack. Not just a after school he has snack and dinner and bedtime are at the same time but a detailed, this is what he does from 4-5pm, this is what he does from 5-5:30 type deal. He gets out of whack at the suggestion of free play or trying to manage his own activities. Iswear he goes looking for trouble if he gets overwhelmed with having too many options and it can quickly deteriorate our evening family time.

                        I think he could easily be diagnosed with ADHD but with time managment he thrives so we've never sought professional help. I saw the same stark contrast between home and school, made the connection, and it's really made all the difference.

                        (He's 9 and in 4th grade but I could see it plain as day as early as kindy).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          First off I'm glad I'm not alone in this, yet sad that there are others going through it too. My 7 year old is a lot like yours. He behaves at school and at friends' houses, basically everywhere I'm not around and it breaks my heart. He thrives on structure and as much as I try I cant do 100% structure at home and I feel like I shouldn't have to, he needs to learn how to behave in less structure. He literally doesn't know how to entertain himself. If left with nothing to do he will go looking for trouble, pester his brother, throw and kick balls in the house, etc. I take him outside and play with him everyday, he is involved in every sport, which he loves and is really good at. I'm hoping that someday he will grow out of this,that's the only thing getting me through.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I too have a child who can be defiant. I've found a lot of her defiant times are due to other factors (she is sleepy, she is hungry, she feels as if someone did her wrong). I have found through trial and error that different methods work for different behaviors and I try to tailor my responses accordingly. The biggest piece of advice I can give you is to keep an open mind of different solutions for different problems AND try your hardest to keep your patience.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Willow View Post
                              The biggest difference between school and home life is typically structure. How structured is his home life? My son struggles in the same way at times, and I know it helps tremendously to whip up a minute by minute schedule for him when he starts to get out of whack. Not just a after school he has snack and dinner and bedtime are at the same time but a detailed, this is what he does from 4-5pm, this is what he does from 5-5:30 type deal. He gets out of whack at the suggestion of free play or trying to manage his own activities. Iswear he goes looking for trouble if he gets overwhelmed with having too many options and it can quickly deteriorate our evening family time.

                              I think he could easily be diagnosed with ADHD but with time managment he thrives so we've never sought professional help. I saw the same stark contrast between home and school, made the connection, and it's really made all the difference.

                              (He's 9 and in 4th grade but I could see it plain as day as early as kindy).
                              I've found that most children behave differently from a caregiver/teacher versus their parents. I think in many cases it has to do with the environment and schedule, but I think it mostly has to do with a child acting differently for another adult. How many of us act a little different, more refined, when we are in a professional workplace or training/school versus our behavior at home? I guarantee that 90% of people (children included) act more appropriately. Home is the place of comfort, where you can act yourself.

                              I've given up on the fact that my daughter acts better for others because in all honesty, they are not her parents. She isn't going to challenge them in the same way she challenges me.

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