Potty Training/ Diapering Max?

[jojosmommy]

I completely disagree with your plan and have some ideas about why kids are not potty training "as it used to be".

First, diapers have evolved a ton in the last 10-20 years. They hold more pee and the kids feel less than they ever have. This trains kids to not notice their own bodily habits. That is no fault of the childs or the parents.


Second, I could teach every child, mine and my dck to tie their shoes at 2 years old weather they were ready physcially and mentally or not. I would have to work for weeks with each child, repetitvely teaching them the skills to hold the laces, then remember the steps etc. OR I could wait until they had mastered their muscle control and had a congnitve concept able to understand the skill. Then I could teach them in a short amount of time.

Same is true for potty training. Check out elimation communication. Some people "train" their kids as an infant. Appropriate, no. Still people try it. I am a frim believer that if you force something as intimate as potty training on kids they will resist you for a long time (years even). So putting a time limit on when kids need to be trained is IMO not appropriate.

If I interviewed in your home and that was your policy I would not for one second consider you as my childs care giver. Simply because I do not know how my child will develop physically and mentally over his entire lifespan. I can not guarentee that my kids will be 100% trained by a certain date on a calendar. And I think as a provider it is ridiculous that you would (by terming) set aside an emotional bond with a child- and for that child with the other kids in care- simply because he wasn't potty trained.

Btw, my own son became interested in training at 18 months on his own, we followed his lead. He was not physically capable of controlling it despite his congnitive interest. We let him be. He became interested again around 2 years 4 months. Again, he was ready cognitivley but his body was not. He was fully trained on his own (without my giving him prompts every 20 min) at 2.5 years. Did I do anything special- no. Should I be considered a good mom b/c of this- no. Would I be totally ok with it if he was still in diapers at 3 because his body wasn't ready-yes. I think the risks of pushing early training on kids out weigh the rewards.

[My3cents]

I see potty training about not training the child but training the parents/care taker. We are the ones that help make this happen. Get it started.

yes parents are lazy- it is easier to leave a child in a diaper and change it at convenience then to get off your butt and put the child on the potty and wait for that special sound, have to wipe, flush, hands, help the child with clothing.Parents are often on the go on the weekends, and having to take a child to the bathroom, pack tons of extra clothes, worry about an accident, clean up an accident and a child. Tons of work involved. Diapers are routines that have been going on since the child was born, so when you upset that routine it can be an inconvenience, esp when the results are not what are hoped for. It takes time. The child has to feel what it feels like to be wet or soiled- and know that doesn't feel good. They have to feel what it feels like to go, requires thought, stop and thinking of what the body is doing. Self awareness.

I feel its the job of both- I am with that child often more then the parents are, so to put it all on the parent is not fair. I have to help make it happen. IF the parent is not ready to do that-sad-but you can't control what goes on at home, you can control what goes on in your house. Kids get it. If they are truly ready to be trained, they get it. They are eager to learn new things, and please.

I start off on the little potty or the big potty with steps and handles and we listen for that sound........ nothing happens, we try again later, never making the child feel bad for not producing results.......just introduction and listening. Very time consuming. Then we move to the big potty and I help them get on it. Let them hold themselves up. When we hear that special sound.......you would think it is a 4th of july party all over again. We make a big deal out of it. no stickers, no toys, just praise, amazement, wow, tons of praise- then we make a big deal out of the flush, we wash hands quick- so that does not become the focus of bathroom time. We praise and tell everyone we know what happened. Big deal out of it. Then we start to talk about how grown up we are becoming. Big girls/boys go on the potty not in their pants. Never scold for accidents, we just go back to we do pee and poo in the potty not in our pants. Ick, it doesn't feel good to be wet,soiled. Accidents will happen, tons of them, just be prepared for them. This is how I get started on the process-

I have noticed the kids are older, but I see it as a lazy thing on both parents and providers. Maybe not even lazy but more of habit. Another thing for me is that I like to wait until the parents are ready- want them to feel they have a part in this. I tell my parents, when your serious about starting potty training let me know and we will make a go of it, but until your ready- I am not ready. For most, not all it really does not take a long time to train, once they get the hang of it...they seem to sore with it. Every kid is different. Training more then one at a time can be easier because they learn from each other and they want to be "big"

Hope this helps-

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I have a nearly 5 year old who is not potty trained. He's special needs, but its really hard sometimes. This kid poopy literally every 30 minutes. He will use the potty maybe 25% of the time, but he has no concept of telling anyone when he.has to go and mostly just sits on potty and cries.

His mom says he uses it for her at home, but I know this child rules the.roost at home. And if.he doesn't want to potty, then he doesn't potty.

Excuse the random periods, Im on my phone.

I've taken care of special needs children. I have no issue with changing a special needs child/adult's diaper. I suppose I should have explained that.

[EchoMom]

JoJo'sMommy, thanks for your response and it's okay that you disagree. Just an FYI I do elimination communication and I do not think it's inapropriate at all and I would ask why you say that, but I don't really want to get off on a side note as my original message was just to get thoughts from other experienced parents and providers. Thanks everyone, this has been SO helpful!

JoJo'sMommy, I have been holding my son over the toilet since he was 5 weeks old. He is now 10months old and sits on the adult toilet with the toddler ring on it and uses it to pee after every nap and morning. He poops in the toilet usually daily. I have stopped what I'm doing to take him to the restroom while grocery shopping and he poops while I hold him over the toilet at public restrooms. I don't see anything damaging or inapropriate at all. There is no bribery, not really any praise either, it's just a natural function and I'm giving him the chance to learn this is how and where we do it. I don't expect him to recognize the feeling yet or control it, but I have the chance to know him and his rythyms very well and it's something we get to learn together. My son will never know a time when he DIDN'T use the toilet.

Yesterday for the first time my 10month old crawled away from the group of daycare kids playing to head down the hallway all by himself, he crawled into the bedroom and pulled himself up at the family bed (yes, we co-sleep too). He was able to tell me that he wanted to sleep, he recognized the feeling of tiredness and he knew the appropriate place to go. Someday he will toddle himself to the bathroom just as he did to the bed.

[cheerfuldom]

I have my own personal thoughts on potty training (my own children, a son and a daughter were both FULLY trained by age 2) but I am also smart enough to know my own personal feelings and thoughts about toiltet training have absolutely no bearing or impact on what and how a daycare parent feels and will do in regards to training their child so with that thought, I have specific guidelines and rules for my DCP's about potty training.

One is that I make it VERY clear that I will NOT toilet train a child. A parent must start, support and complete the process themselves. I will, however, assist them with their routines and processes. I will NOT take a child to the toilet every 15-30 minutes in the hopes that they will go, I will not dress or undress a child to go and I will NOT ask them every 15-30 minutes.

I will remind them to use the toilet and will assist them in buttoning and snapping ect but the child needs to know how to say he/she needs to use the toilet and they need to be able to do 75% of the dressing and undressing themselves. Again, I will happily assist the child and the parent but will NOT do it for them.

I have a list of things a child should know how to do before attempting to potty train and I give this list to parents so they know what things to work on prior to attempting training. I also do NOT allow children to wear undies without plastic pants or pull ups until they have been accident free for a full two weeks at my house....not accident free at home.

I have not had to deal with a diaper wearing 4 year old in all my years in child care so I am either lucky or have some awesome parents....either way, I don't care but am super glad I don't have to change a child that old.

This is exactly what I do! I dont train kids, but I do support the process that mom and dad start at home. Its important for mom and dad to see a clear picture at home of what their child is or is not capable of. This policy helps greatly when parents want a young toddler to begin training....they need to see for themselves that their child is not ready yet!

[JustAMom]

This is a good article explaining why trying to potty train early can be bad: http://www.babble.com/toddler/toddle...raining-early/.

[cheerfuldom]

JoJo'sMommy, thanks for your response and it's okay that you disagree. Just an FYI I do elimination communication and I do not think it's inapropriate at all and I would ask why you say that, but I don't really want to get off on a side note as my original message was just to get thoughts from other experienced parents and providers. Thanks everyone, this has been SO helpful!

JoJo'sMommy, I have been holding my son over the toilet since he was 5 weeks old. He is now 10months old and sits on the adult toilet with the toddler ring on it and uses it to pee after every nap and morning. He poops in the toilet usually daily. I have stopped what I'm doing to take him to the restroom while grocery shopping and he poops while I hold him over the toilet at public restrooms. I don't see anything damaging or inapropriate at all. There is no bribery, not really any praise either, it's just a natural function and I'm giving him the chance to learn this is how and where we do it. I don't expect him to recognize the feeling yet or control it, but I have the chance to know him and his rythyms very well and it's something we get to learn together. My son will never know a time when he DIDN'T use the toilet.

Yesterday for the first time my 10month old crawled away from the group of daycare kids playing to head down the hallway all by himself, he crawled into the bedroom and pulled himself up at the family bed (yes, we co-sleep too). He was able to tell me that he wanted to sleep, he recognized the feeling of tiredness and he knew the appropriate place to go. Someday he will toddle himself to the bathroom just as he did to the bed.

huge advocate for elimination communication here as well! but thats a whole other thread I will say though that all the parents I know that do it, realize that they are not potty training a baby. it is more about knowing your child and fostering the ability to eliminate in something besides a diaper, with cues. all the parents I know that EC also use cloth diapers as backup. the definition of being successful at EC is very different than being successful at potty training. No one is silly enough to think that a non mobile child can get to the potty, eliminate and clean themselves appropriately without help which is what we eventually expect a preschooled aged child to be able to do. All that to say that EC is generally not a reasonable option for daycares unless the caregiver is mom.

[EchoMom]

Cheerful, I agree, I would not do EC with a child not my own in my daycare. However, I am able to do EC with my own child while also caring for 5 other kids. It's doable if you're committed to it, however, I'm not a purist! :P

And yes, you're totally right, I think that's the biggest thing when discussing potty training, people seem to have different ideas of what the goal is, or what completion/success is. I don't expect my 10 month old to step up to the toilet, unbutton himself (although I wouldn't even put him in that type of clothing if he were ready!) and wipe himself.

But I do think that a 2.5year old who can pee in the toilet 4 times a day at my house when prompted to is ready and it irks me that his parents aren't even offering it to him. IF IF IF I were to make a limit that I do NOT diaper children over age 3 it would not be to penalize families that truly were working on it. It would be because I would NOT want to continue a partnership with parents who didn't care to even try.

I admit, changing sh** diapers on 2+ children disgusts me and is by far the part of my job I hate! But I like most everything else about it.

[jojosmommy]

JoJo'sMommy, thanks for your response and it's okay that you disagree. Just an FYI I do elimination communication and I do not think it's inapropriate at all and I would ask why you say that, but I don't really want to get off on a side note as my original message was just to get thoughts from other experienced parents and providers. Thanks everyone, this has been SO helpful!

JoJo'sMommy, I have been holding my son over the toilet since he was 5 weeks old. He is now 10months old and sits on the adult toilet with the toddler ring on it and uses it to pee after every nap and morning. He poops in the toilet usually daily. I have stopped what I'm doing to take him to the restroom while grocery shopping and he poops while I hold him over the toilet at public restrooms. I don't see anything damaging or inapropriate at all. There is no bribery, not really any praise either, it's just a natural function and I'm giving him the chance to learn this is how and where we do it. I don't expect him to recognize the feeling yet or control it, but I have the chance to know him and his rythyms very well and it's something we get to learn together. My son will never know a time when he DIDN'T use the toilet.

Yesterday for the first time my 10month old crawled away from the group of daycare kids playing to head down the hallway all by himself, he crawled into the bedroom and pulled himself up at the family bed (yes, we co-sleep too). He was able to tell me that he wanted to sleep, he recognized the feeling of tiredness and he knew the appropriate place to go. Someday he will toddle himself to the bathroom just as he did to the bed.

Since you don't want to turn this thread into an EC debate I will just say that you are the trained one, not him. You know his cues and take him to the toilet, YOU manage his toileting. This is not something he does. And if your comfortable with the manner in which you manage his bladder and bowel then more power to you. Like someone else said, EC is not going to happen in a daycare setting. I think your expectation of exactly when a child should be trained is unacceptable. Unless you are going to take it on yourself and do it starting from birth I don't think its appropriate to tell parents their kid must be trained at a certain point. Especially since all kids develop differently, something any provider with experience knows.

[EchoMom]

Since you don't want to turn this thread into an EC debate I will just say that you are the trained one, not him. You know his cues and take him to the toilet, YOU manage his toileting. This is not something he does. And if your comfortable with the manner in which you manage his bladder and bowel then more power to you. Like someone else said, EC is not going to happen in a daycare setting. I think your expectation of exactly when a child should be trained is unacceptable. Unless you are going to take it on yourself and do it starting from birth I don't think its appropriate to tell parents their kid must be trained at a certain point. Especially since all kids develop differently, something any provider with experience knows.

Yes, I totally agree that my son is not potty trained by doing EC. But I don't see your point. Yes, I recognize when my child needs to go to the bathroom and I take him. You recognize when your child is hungry before he is verbal, and you feed him.

I do not think it an unacceptable expectation to have a child potty trained by age 3 as many many children are potty trained much earlier than that. And many daycares/preschools have requirements that a child may not go on to the next classroom until they are potty trained.

The best thing about owning my own business is that I do work for myself and can make my own policies if I chose. If I don't want to wipe a poop log bigger than anything my husband even produces off a 40lb kid I don't have to. And if there are parents who don't agree with my expectation of potty training then you're right, I'm not the place for them and we'll all be happy.

[LittleCrawfishCC]

Wow, I just don't understand the big deal, personally I have a almost 3 year old daughter, that has aspergers and has communication issues. By no means will I train myself to take her every 15 mins, it took me a long time to realize that she is just not ready. Children know when they are not ready. I would prefer her to train and not have humorous regressions like we have had.

[nothingwithoutjoy]

Same is true for potty training. Check out elimation communication. Some people "train" their kids as an infant. Appropriate, no. Still people try it. I am a frim believer that if you force something as intimate as potty training on kids they will resist you for a long time (years even). So putting a time limit on when kids need to be trained is IMO not appropriate.

I completely agree with you about not pushing a child before they are ready. However, I want to clarify that that is not what elimination communication is all about. And, in fact, I think it's much more "appropriate" than many of the other ways people go about "training" their children. Done with the intention of "elimination communication" (i.e. communicating with your child), rather than with the intention of rushing children through stages for your own convenience, it's amazing and gentle and the complete opposite of pushing.

In essence, we "train" children to use diapers. Babies, like all animals, don't want to sit in their feces. Give them an opportunity to go outside of the diaper, pay attention for their cues as to when they need to go, and they can, and will, with no need for praise or encouragement or punishment or bribes or any of the other stuff parents resort to.

[jojosmommy]

So what are you asking for advice for then? Looks like your original post was a question on peoples thoughts. Clearly you have your mind made up.

Good luck, hope all your kids comply to your preconceived expectations, or that its easy to replace them.

[jojosmommy]

I completely agree with you about not pushing a child before they are ready. However, I want to clarify that that is not what elimination communication is all about. And, in fact, I think it's much more "appropriate" than many of the other ways people go about "training" their children. Done with the intention of "elimination communication" (i.e. communicating with your child), rather than with the intention of rushing children through stages for your own convenience, it's amazing and gentle and the complete opposite of pushing.

In essence, we "train" children to use diapers. Babies, like all animals, don't want to sit in their feces. Give them an opportunity to go outside of the diaper, pay attention for their cues as to when they need to go, and they can, and will, with no need for praise or encouragement or punishment or bribes or any of the other stuff parents resort to.

I said unless you are going to do ec with dck its unrealistic to set a time limit (age) on exactly when they are trained. If ec is your thing great but unless you want to do it with everyone youcant expect them all to learn at the same pace or be ready at the same time. If you dont want to change the diapers of a bigger older kid then take them to the bathroom every 5 min and see if that works for everyone.

[Kiki]

I have my own personal thoughts on potty training (my own children, a son and a daughter were both FULLY trained by age 2) but I am also smart enough to know my own personal feelings and thoughts about toiltet training have absolutely no bearing or impact on what and how a daycare parent feels and will do in regards to training their child so with that thought, I have specific guidelines and rules for my DCP's about potty training.

I just re-wrote my handbook, and adapted your policy, I really liked it. I don't really have an age limit here so to speak, but I would work with any child that was showing an interest in it.

I don't want to start a fire, but I do want to toss this out here-my youngest DD will be 4 in October, and she is barely potty trained. You bet your ruby slippers I tried to train her when she was younger. My other two girls were trained by 2.5. She just showed no interest in it, and would just get upset when I had her go. I did the every 15 minutes, I did the crazy 3 day training, I did every 30 minutes, anything I could think of. Eventually, it just was not worth the fight anymore. I'm not a lazy parent, I just chose my battles, and that wasn't a battle I felt I had to keep fighting with her. Around January of this year she asked to wear panties, so I let her, and from there out she was going on her own, had a lot of accidents in between but the point was she wanted to, I wasn't forcing her.
I'm not excusing parents who aren't attempting it, but I am saying that if a child isn't ready, they aren't ready, and there really isn't much you can do but wait for them to be ready.