Another Child Touched My Son at Daycare

[Unregistered]

I went to pick up my 4 year old son today from daycare. He and another boy were both sitting in time out. The story is as follows: Both children were caught kissing in the housekeeping center. They said they were reenacting a movie scene (batman kissing catwoman). Then, in the puzzle center, they were both caught with their pants down. My son told me that it was the other boy's idea. He said they should take their pants off (admin - omitted). My son then said that he did the same thing to this other boy.

What do I do about this? We do not show our children anything inappropriate on television. We are a pretty modest family. We have talked with all of our kids about their private parts being private and that other people (besides mommy, daddy, and the doctor) shouldn't see them. How should I be dealing with this? How should the daycare be dealing with this?

There is a camera in the room. They are going to be looking at the tape tomorrow and deciding what really happened. I just don't know what to do...

[GretasLittleFriends]

That's a difficult situation. Personally I would wait and see what the tape showed. I'd also ask to see it with the daycare staff. I'm not sure they can do much. I would think they would conference with the other child's parents as well. Of course if it continued to be a problem they'd have to terminate the child that's causing the problem.

[Michael]

A related post that might help: https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8269

[grandmom]

Dr. Play

Dr. play for 4 year olds is normal. It's just as normal - and just as socially UNacceptable for us adults- as biting is for a 2 year old.

Now, perhaps one of the boys was at the doctor recently in preparation of Kindergarten. Kids do what is done to them. So they come home and play doctor. No big deal.

The big deal comes when adults get all up about it. Then the kids start thinking about why and they explore more. Just like any other behavior that gets our attention. So I just tell the kids to go "clean up the puzzle area" or something, and then keep them apart for a while.

Unfortunately in my state, any physical touch like this is reportable. And, quite unfortunately, that report stays in the kids' file f-o-r-e-v-e-r. Even the 'victim' of this play.

My solution. No doctor kits of any kind. No doctor play of any kind. No babydolls with body parts. All shirts/shorts on even in the sprinkler. I don't ever want to make that kind of report.

[QualiTcare]

my daughter was in a similar situation - also at 4 years old. nobody caught them with their pants down, but she and another girl were caught kissing.

at first, i just talked to her and told her she couldn't be kissing anyone (and i left the topic of sex (male/female) out of it). like your son, she blamed it on the other child - saying the other child kissed her, coerced her, etc. i believed it was both of them - especially since it happened again - and again.

at first i ignored it thinking it would work itself out -they would experiment, get it out of their system, and it would stop. it didn't. eventually i told her she would be grounded if it continued - no cartoons, no coloring books, no outside time, etc. i still never mentioned the fact that she shouldn't be kissing a GIRL, but just another child in general. i'm pretty liberal and i didn't want to engrain it in her head that kissing someone of the same sex was WRONG or nasty - but that kissing PERIOD wasn't appropriate for a child. afterall, who knows who she'll grow up to be - i didn't want to make any harsh comments about WHO she was kissing.

even after being grounded, they did it again - but i stuck to it and continued taking away priveleges - and i would talk to her, you know, "is it worth it not being able to go outside, not watching cartoons, etc." the very last time it happened (that i was made aware of) she cried when i confronted her about it and told her she would be grounded. she swore it was the other child (who was her best friend) that was doing it/initiating it - whatever. that's when i told the teacher that she said it was the other child and i was beginning to believe her - because of the grounding, etc - i didn't think she would continue doing it out of defiance. the teacher started keeping a closer eye on them and told me it was in fact the other child pressuring her (saying, "let's play boyfriend and gf - and i won't be your friend if you don't, etc). - and she caught the other child doing the same thing with a different child in the bathroom.

after that, i just told my daughter to talk to her friend and explain to her if she tried it again that she was getting in trouble over it. if that didn't work, i told her to tell the teacher immediately instead of participating. it stopped shortly after the "culprit" was identified. the other child's mother and grandmother tried to blame it on my child (but they took a different approach by telling her kissing girls was nasty, and they didn't ground her or anything). i'm not saying grounding was the right solution (even though i did it) but i didn't know what else to do. it was happening often and the other child's family was making a scene about it.

it can be a sticky situation - it's normal to experiment, but if it continues then you have to get to the bottom of what's really happening and come up with a plan. the teacher did tell the other child's family that it was their child who was doing the initiating and had been caught with another child - which didn't go over well because they were all like, "my daughter isn't a *******!" unfortunately, parents don't have to submit to IQ tests before breeding.

i wouldn't worry about the act itself, but instead try to get to the bottom of why it continues (if it does) and talk to the teacher about what you've done, what your child has told you, and what she can do as far as watching the two together. my child's teacher knew i was taking action so when it would happen again, she knew it wasn't because i hadn't addressed the problem. try not to place blame when you discuss it because you never really know the root of the "problem."

i see this was posted a couple/few weeks ago. i'd love an update if you read this!

[HeatherB]

ITA with you here!

Dr. play for 4 year olds is normal. It's just as normal - and just as socially UNacceptable for us adults- as biting is for a 2 year old.

Now, perhaps one of the boys was at the doctor recently in preparation of Kindergarten. Kids do what is done to them. So they come home and play doctor. No big deal.

The big deal comes when adults get all up about it. Then the kids start thinking about why and they explore more. Just like any other behavior that gets our attention. So I just tell the kids to go "clean up the puzzle area" or something, and then keep them apart for a while.

Unfortunately in my state, any physical touch like this is reportable. And, quite unfortunately, that report stays in the kids' file f-o-r-e-v-e-r. Even the 'victim' of this play.

My solution. No doctor kits of any kind. No doctor play of any kind. No babydolls with body parts. All shirts/shorts on even in the sprinkler. I don't ever want to make that kind of report.

[Unregistered]

Signs of Sexual Abuse

I just read this post, as well as the post about a 4 yr old girl whose best friend was initiating kissing multiple times.

I have a family member who has worked for DHS and unfortunately that is a very good sign that the other child was probably the victim of sexual abuse (which is why, Grandmom, this type of behavior Must be reported, especially if it is a continuous occurrence).

Kissing at 4yrs, if it is a once or twice thing that stops and isn't a hidden thing, is pretty normal. But if it accompanied by showing or touching private parts then something has most likely happened to take the innocence of the "perperator" and just as Grandmom noted, kids do what has been done to them.

You didn't say Anything about "playing doctor" and if the boys had been doing that, then I think your son would have used those words to let you know what was going on.

This is really sad to read, and I hope it has been resolved.

[mac60]

Many many years ago, like in the early 1980's, I was driving down the street and saw 2 little kids, boy and girl, approx age of 4 on the grass between the street and the sidewalk. The girl was laying down on her back with legs spread apart, the little boy, well, his hands were where they didn't belong. I looked and thought oh my gosh that is terrible. I didn't stop, but drove around the block and they were still engaging in inappropriate behavior, I laid on the horn and they jumped up.....I don't believe that because a child does this, that they have been sexually abused. That is rediculous. Kids do unexpected things.

[dEHmom]

I agree that just because kissing or something like that happens, does not mean there is sexual abuse happenings, maybe they came across mom/dad's videos or magazines, etc.

BUT I think the consideration should be there, as often this is one of the good indicators that some sort of inappropriate behavior is/has taken place for this child. Doesn't mean it's mom/dad, could be friends of family, or other family members. Some families you would never expect to be, but could be part of a cult. YOU NEVER KNOW!

It's hard to know whether you should start pointing fingers or not, but truth is, I'd rather investigate, and come to a finding that sexual abuse is NOT happening, than assume it is not happening and it IS.

Very fine line here, and a child should never suffer. Often they are threatened and will not say anything, and will even lie about it. Sometimes the perp even drugs the child so they won't see them or remember it happening. It's disgusting, and it makes me sick! Some people even raise them to believe it's normal, look at Eddie Lee Sexton, HORRIBLE!!!! For those of you who do not know about Eddie Lee Sexton, read this book...



Another book of great interest to people who deal with children

[Unregistered]

this is a hard one

This is a hard one. I completely feel for the parents and children in this situation because my child has been in similar situations - mooning, exposing himself but never any touching involved. Each time, my child told me that the other boys in class were telling him to do it. I was always frustrated and embarrassed because the teachers were never able to follow through with a complete report - they never could tell me exactly everything that happened so I never found out if the other boys were really telling him to do it or if he was doing it because he thought it was funny. They never once interviewed or talked with the other boys or their parents. It was very frustrating because the daycare was unwilling to work with us, but they were more than happy to punish him. These were all behaviors that he never did outside of daycare and he is regularly around other children his same age on play dates and outside.

He's VERY modest about nakedness around anyone but me, his father and his peditrician. Funny how after we left the daycare because of that group of boys and what they were being allowed to get away with, that the behavior stopped completely overnight. I still believe my child to this day - that the other boys were telling him to do it and he was doing to fit in or to make them happy or to prevent them from bullying him further - because I found out that one of the boy's older sisters were telling the boys to do bad things at daycare one day and they were trying to blame it on my child - except that they didn't count on the new kid to rat them all out - I interviewed the children myself that day because I got sick of the lies.

Kids are VERY impressionable that way. They don't know things are wrong - they only know what they see or hear, etc and they are desperate to fit in during childhood. I have to say that it's not impossible but rare if there were any sexual abuse concerns in your situation. I don't think it's warranted to pull out an all out assult on the other child. These behaviors are completely normal - though even in saying that, I wonder where kids get that stuff from? How do they know to even do it and where do they get their ideas? I would start with your pediatrician first and a good toddler guide book. I think a calm head and a good discussion with the other parent directly (NOT daycare) would help you immensely. And I would highly recommend thinking it over and breathing on it and sleeping on it for a couple of days/nights in order to clear your head and to calm down.

I understand you're frustrated but there's lots more to come as he gets older. I would be concerned if it happens repeatedly with the same child. And after a while, if you're still really upset and concerned, pull your child out of there and find a new daycare.

[Unregistered]

Something very similar happened to my nephew, not just kissing, when he was in preschool a few years ago. In his situation, the other child was also acting out in other ways. I believe the center was required to report it, and the family of the instigator was investigated. It turns out, the other child was being abused at home. I'm not saying this is what's going on in your child's situation, it could be innocent. Be glad there is surveillance tape, and take it slowly. The center needs to treat this very seriously--for both kids, not just your son.

[Unregistered]

secret game - don't tell dc she said

I found your thread as I have a 5 yr old daughter who told me about the "game" she and a boy played at dc. She didn't want to tell me and when I asked for details of the game she got very upset, started crying and begged me not to tell dc.

Now details are from my daughter.
there were pants pulled down.
touching - answer changes from I don't know to no.
who started the game - the boy.
how many times have you played this game - for a long time.
when I called dc and told her about the game dc said my daughter initiated it.

I went back to talk to my daughter and she did say she wanted to go downstairs but didn't know they were going to play game.

So both parents and dc know about game. my concern is I asked for follow up communication in regards to what was done the next day or steps going forward to give me assurance that this will not happen again. Dc was upset and i know feels terrible and also worried. But what is the responsibility/liability of dc in this situation? according to my daughter the kids can play down stairs by themselves when dc is upstair. DC says since they are school age she doesn't have to be downstairs since she can hear them. How can I be sure this will not happen again?

I'm new to this. I understand curiosity but if supervision was more diligent would this have happened for a "long time?"

[jen]

I found your thread as I have a 5 yr old daughter who told me about the "game" she and a boy played at dc. She didn't want to tell me and when I asked for details of the game she got very upset, started crying and begged me not to tell dc.

Now details are from my daughter.
there were pants pulled down.
touching - answer changes from I don't know to no.
who started the game - the boy.
how many times have you played this game - for a long time.
when I called dc and told her about the game dc said my daughter initiated it.

I went back to talk to my daughter and she did say she wanted to go downstairs but didn't know they were going to play game.

So both parents and dc know about game. my concern is I asked for follow up communication in regards to what was done the next day or steps going forward to give me assurance that this will not happen again. Dc was upset and i know feels terrible and also worried. But what is the responsibility/liability of dc in this situation? according to my daughter the kids can play down stairs by themselves when dc is upstair. DC says since they are school age she doesn't have to be downstairs since she can hear them. How can I be sure this will not happen again?

I'm new to this. I understand curiosity but if supervision was more diligent would this have happened for a "long time?"

Am I understanding you correctly...the daycare provider was aware of the event and didn't tell you about it?

If that is correct, I would pull my child TODAY. Not because kids do what they do, but because of the lack of communication.

[Cat Herder]

according to my daughter the kids can play down stairs by themselves when dc is upstair. DC says since they are school age she doesn't have to be downstairs since she can hear them. How can I be sure this will not happen again?

Here it is against regs for a provider to be in a different room that the DCK's.

It is different in each State, check your regs to be sure.

IMHO, I would not choose childcare that is unsupervised other than for brief potty breaks/grabbing food/drinks to serve. It defeats the purpose of taking them there :confused:

School aged kids can get into much bigger trouble than even the littles in my experience.

It is legal in many states, however.

[Michael]

It appears unregistered is located in Minnesota:

Minnesota Rules, part 9502.0315 DEFINITIONS.
Subp. 29a. Supervision. "Supervision" means a caregiver being within sight or hearing of an infant, toddler, or preschooler at all times so that the caregiver is capable of intervening to protect the health and safety of the child. For the school age child, it means a caregiver being available for assistance and care so that the child's health and safety is protected.