Unruly ~5 Year Old, Misbehaving All Day

[trix23]

I watch 2 sisters (~2 years and ~5 years) part time. Normally the older one goes to VPK in the mornings and then dad drops off in the afternoons. Last week (spring break) they both came the full day for 2 days. They have both been in my care for about 4 months. The first day was fine. The 2nd day was ungodly. She was breaking every rule: screaming indoors, running, being destructive, climbing ontop of my storage shelves, jumping on the couch, taking all the couch cushions off, etc etc. I told her that these behaviors are not allowed and that she needed to follow the rules. Was knowingly breaking the rules (and laughing about it).

Put her in time out 5 times and told her afterwards that her behavior is not ok. That she needs to... (use walking feet, indoor voices, don't climb indoors, etc). She honestly would've been in time out all day if I was rigid with her and put her in the corner for each incident.

She is very pushy with boundaries and her parents cave into them (I see it at pickup and drop-off) versus me, I have an iron will. She was whining, begging, and even CRYING during naptime/quiet time for me to read her another story (did 8 books that day, 3 Seuss books, so i was done) and wanted more, telling me that she can't read ( she can, just trying to get me to do what she wants). I told her no repeatedly then ignored her after about 5 minutes of this. Went on for 20 minutes then she finally went off and played on her own.

The methods I use don't work on her, as she tries to weasel or talk her way out of the rules here (like wants to take shoes off while outside). I need help!!

[grandmom]

If you're thinking of terminating, and are asking for permission, you have my vote.

Really.

[trix23]

I'm really asking for ideas on how to handle the behavior problems. I'm new and need the income, unfortunately.

[childcaremom]

:hug:

If you are going to keep her then I would put a behaviour plan in place. Have a chat with the parents, explain what your expectations are, what your consequences are, and that after x amount of time outs/behaviours that are excludable, you will be calling for pick up.

I am leaning towards her having outgrown your environment, tbh. I would be advertising to replace.

[debbiedoeszip]

I watch 2 sisters (~2 years and ~5 years) part time. Normally the older one goes to VPK in the mornings and then dad drops off in the afternoons. Last week (spring break) they both came the full day for 2 days. They have both been in my care for about 4 months. The first day was fine. The 2nd day was ungodly. She was breaking every rule: screaming indoors, running, being destructive, climbing ontop of my storage shelves, jumping on the couch, taking all the couch cushions off, etc etc. I told her that these behaviors are not allowed and that she needed to follow the rules. Was knowingly breaking the rules (and laughing about it).

Put her in time out 5 times and told her afterwards that her behavior is not ok. That she needs to... (use walking feet, indoor voices, don't climb indoors, etc). She honestly would've been in time out all day if I was rigid with her and put her in the corner for each incident.

She is very pushy with boundaries and her parents cave into them (I see it at pickup and drop-off) versus me, I have an iron will. She was whining, begging, and even CRYING during naptime/quiet time for me to read her another story (did 8 books that day, 3 Seuss books, so i was done) and wanted more, telling me that she can't read ( she can, just trying to get me to do what she wants). I told her no repeatedly then ignored her after about 5 minutes of this. Went on for 20 minutes then she finally went off and played on her own.

The methods I use don't work on her, as she tries to weasel or talk her way out of the rules here (like wants to take shoes off while outside). I need help!!

IME, she sounds like she is bored and also needs more physical activity, and you seem to already know that she needs consistent boundaries and consequences. Any chance of spending most of the day outside? Or of bringing lots of physical activity indoors? Maybe dancing, or yoga, or calisthenics disguised as a game (like vigorous simon says or follow the leader)?

[trix23]

She's starting kindergarten in the fall so there's an end in sight. And I have 4 kids total, 2 of my own (3y and 6m) and her sister (1.5y). We have outside time 2x a day (45m each time). I cook meals and do story time, art activities, etc so there's not a ton of time left for doing extras, mostly because of the baby.

Thanks for the ideas, I'll see if I can implement some. Another issue is that she's used to tons of one -on-one time and I just can't give that here. School starts in August here.

[debbiedoeszip]

I find what also works for me here is giving alternatives (rather than time outs). Ex. "You can't jump on the couch but you can jump as high as you want from the floor." or "You can't rip books, but here's some paper you can rip". Maybe you can find alternatives that will be an acceptable compromise.

[Blackcat31]

I find what also works for me here is giving alternatives (rather than time outs). Ex. "You can't jump on the couch but you can jump as high as you want from the floor." or "You can't rip books, but here's some paper you can rip". Maybe you can find alternatives that will be an acceptable compromise.

I agree with giving alternatives.
It helps them make the right choices.

I would do away with second chances until she starts listening to you. Especially with those things you KNOW she already knows.

She's testing boundaries because the other adults in her life allow it so I would shore up my consequences and would be pretty cut/dried until she demonstrates a bit more self-control and an ability to listen and follow rules and directions.

Make sure you let her know your expectations up front.

Reward those that DO listen and follow the rules. EVEN if that means she feels bad when she isn't included in that reward. Sometimes we need to see others doing the right thing or being rewarded for it before it motivates us to do the same.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

:hug:

If you are going to keep her then I would put a behaviour plan in place. Have a chat with the parents, explain what your expectations are, what your consequences are, and that after x amount of time outs/behaviours that are excludable, you will be calling for pick up.

I am leaning towards her having outgrown your environment, tbh. I would be advertising to replace.

Absolutely.

But, if you must keep her on then I'd send to the table to do some kind of tabletop activity every time she is being directly defiant. "Oh dear. Looks like you are not listening again. Come sit down and do a puzzle at the table."

[Unregistered]

Absolutely.

But, if you must keep her on then I'd send to the table to do some kind of tabletop activity every time she is being directly defiant. "Oh dear. Looks like you are not listening again. Come sit down and do a puzzle at the table."

I agree...firmness and swift! No need for the corner.....table toys. If she has to be there a lot it's more appropriate.

This is really cruddy behavior for a 5 yr old! Set up expectations upon arrival each day stated in the positive if positive (in a firm voice-I require you to WALK my house or you will save running for outside. Do you understand?). and tell her the consequences.

[Mom2Two]

If you try the quiet activity thing, I'd love to know it if works (meaning, I'd love to know if it makes the situation bearable for you).

I tended an extremely difficult 4 year old dcg and her younger sister one year. The girl was extroverted, smart, loud, physically active, but not very sensitive and also very stubborn and defiant. Mum was puzzlingly patient and also wouldnt' talk about home life.

Dcg hated doing chores, so I used that as a consequence. Time outs didnt' work, because she was smart and imaginative enough that she would willingly stay in time out forever, entertaining herself with her own thoughts or being a pain by calling out stuff.

So at first when I began giving her chores (like cleaning spots off my kitchen cabinet doors or the floor), she would just yell out stuff and be a pain and refuse to do the chore. So then I said she had to stay in time out until she did the chore, but that didn't work.

But then I began having AWESOME FAVORITE activities with the other children right in front of her that she couldn't participate in until she had done her chore. She was so social, extroverted, and physical that she just couldn't stand watching a dance party with ribbons that she wasn't the center of. So she caved. I'd won. She did her chore pronto so she could join the party, and after that she always did her chore right when I said she had to do one, and her behavior also calmed way down, because she knew that she had to obey me or have a consequence that she didn't like.

However...if I had a child like that again, if I couldn't win quickly, I'd term. The problem was that I yelled at her every. single. day. until I figured out what to do to get her respect and cooperation. And yelling is against licensing.

The best thing I got out of this difficult, nine month long experience is that I learned what my limits are. Not doing that again, especially with mom refusing to discuss what she was doing for discipline at home.