Issues/non issues of proposed new regs

[Josiegirl]

I attended a training this past week of what they're trying to pass in our 60 pages of new regs. They won't go into affect for another year and then we'll have a year to comply.
Some of the regs. people were dissing were things such as nothing in a child's crib if they're under a year. No blankets, no cloth diaper, books, stuffed animals, nada. Most of the others complained but I feel that's a good idea.
Another was as soon as the ground freezes, no more climbing/swinging, etc. equipment can be used. Everybody was complaining but really, isn't that why we spend tons of money? To keep the ground soft if their head hits it?

One I don't agree with is it'll be mandatory to move 12 month olds and up(if they are walkers) to a cot or mat. Right now I have twin 15 month old dcgs and I cannot imagine trying to get them to sleep in a lighter room, with other kids. They're light sleepers to begin with and need to be separate. Now I could see it if they were climbing out.

For those of us without dishwashers, we'll have a 4 step process to washing dishes. While that will be a major pain, it's doable.

One lady complained because she'll be required to put up a fence totally surrounding her yard(if she doesn't have natural boundaries), costing her thousands. I can see her point but I can see the other side also.

From what some of you have said, your regs. are even more strict so I shouldn't complain but center owners are even agreeing that they're trying to bring home providers up to their standards.
Maybe the state could help by providing grant money towards major expenses such as fencing?

[nannyde]

Putting one year olds on cots? Omg

That would rock my world. I have them in playpens till three.

I wonder if it is in response to having commercial playpens becoming so shallow on the inside and the materials so flimsy.

My playpens are 26 inches deep. There are ones on the market that are 19. That's the difference of two YEARS of growth between the first and third year.

They are probably seeing falls out of the shallow playpens and providers doing stuff like putting plywood over the top of the playpens to keep them in.

Nothing in the crib is common now.in most states.

The cot thing for the one.year olds could be enough to put the provider over the edge. Having a twelve month old who doesn't understand lay and stay means one to one care at nap. It also means as.soon as the one year olds wake up... nap is over. I saw this in the centers I watched cameras for. The staff hated nap time even with a one to four ratio. They had SO many kids who would not sleep without being held or patted by an adult. They also had staff doing things they shouldn't to get them to lay down. Blankets over face, workers legs over the kids torso, partially laying on the kid to prevent them from getting up.

We had to do a ton of corrections and.supervision in those rooms.at nap. But... they were the shortest naps.in the building and the ones didn't have a morning nap. These kids were EXHAUSTED all day long. They also had happy parents because the majority went home and went to bed shortly after getting home. At home they were confined.

More illness and violence in the one.room than any other room. More staff turnover than all the other rooms combined.

Home providers need a break and they just policied yours away.

Fight it.

[Josiegirl]

Yes, that was terribly unpopular.
Plus another one they want to pass is no more potty chairs, unless they're the flushable kind. They make flushable potty chairs??? You have to use the toilet with a stool. I guess they make toilet seats with potty chairs in them too?
Some of these rules are over the top. Thought up by people who don't do what we do, day in and day out. They're sitting at their desks, having coffee brought in by their administrative assistants.

And I'd never heard of this happening before but I guess in centers already, the state will come in and check the room temp 1' above the floor, it has to be between 68-85. Oy.

[Heidi]

Putting one year olds on cots? Omg

That would rock my world. I have them in playpens till three.

I wonder if it is in response to having commercial playpens becoming so shallow on the inside and the materials so flimsy.

My playpens are 26 inches deep. There are ones on the market that are 19. That's the difference of two YEARS of growth between the first and third year.

They are probably seeing falls out of the shallow playpens and providers doing stuff like putting plywood over the top of the playpens to keep them in.

Nothing in the crib is common now.in most states.

The cot thing for the one.year olds could be enough to put the provider over the edge. Having a twelve month old who doesn't understand lay and stay means one to one care at nap. It also means as.soon as the one year olds wake up... nap is over. I saw this in the centers I watched cameras for. The staff hated nap time even with a one to four ratio. They had SO many kids who would not sleep without being held or patted by an adult. They also had staff doing things they shouldn't to get them to lay down. Blankets over face, workers legs over the kids torso, partially laying on the kid to prevent them from getting up.

We had to do a ton of corrections and.supervision in those rooms.at nap. But... they were the shortest naps.in the building and the ones didn't have a morning nap. These kids were EXHAUSTED all day long. They also had happy parents because the majority went home and went to bed shortly after getting home. At home they were confined.

More illness and violence in the one.room than any other room. More staff turnover than all the other rooms combined.

Home providers need a break and they just policied yours away.

Fight it.

I agree!

I know there are providers that do it, but I just got a new one that will be 1 this week, and I can't imagine a cot for him. He's been bottled and rocked to sleep for 362 days, 3-4 times a day. The side of the cot is higher than his nose. There is no safety issue there. In fact, having him on a mat would be a safety issue, IMO. First..supervision. I do have to use the bathroom, put away lunch, etc. Even if I didn't want a "break" during a 10 hour day, I still need to DO things during nap time.

Second, I need a break, or I might go bonkers (read...danger to children when a provider is overwhelmed). Working by yourself 10-11 hours a day and no break? Nuh uh...now THAT"S a safety issue!

We've had center staff in our town cited for holding a TWO year old down the way Nan described. A one year old has no self control.

If you have a union, get them on it. That's what they're there for. If you don't, try every other available means; your NAFCC chapter, NAFCC itself, anyone who'll listen and help fight stupid policies. Call your legislator. They just sign stuff like that and have no clue about the impact. Invite them to your program. Show them!

[Febby]

Putting one year olds on cots? Omg

That would rock my world. I have them in playpens till three.

I wonder if it is in response to having commercial playpens becoming so shallow on the inside and the materials so flimsy.

My playpens are 26 inches deep. There are ones on the market that are 19. That's the difference of two YEARS of growth between the first and third year.

They are probably seeing falls out of the shallow playpens and providers doing stuff like putting plywood over the top of the playpens to keep them in.

I was told that's why we can't use PNPs in my state. The materials were too flimsy and children were climbing up and out of them.

State here says toddlers and preschoolers in an individual bed, nap mat, or on a cot. Every inspector I've seen has counted a crib as an individual bed for toddlers.

The cot thing for the one.year olds could be enough to put the provider over the edge. Having a twelve month old who doesn't understand lay and stay means one to one care at nap. It also means as.soon as the one year olds wake up... nap is over. I saw this in the centers I watched cameras for. The staff hated nap time even with a one to four ratio. They had SO many kids who would not sleep without being held or patted by an adult. They also had staff doing things they shouldn't to get them to lay down. Blankets over face, workers legs over the kids torso, partially laying on the kid to prevent them from getting up.

We had to do a ton of corrections and.supervision in those rooms.at nap. But... they were the shortest naps.in the building and the ones didn't have a morning nap. These kids were EXHAUSTED all day long. They also had happy parents because the majority went home and went to bed shortly after getting home. At home they were confined.

More illness and violence in the one.room than any other room. More staff turnover than all the other rooms combined.

We have a 1:6 ratio for toddlers in my state. I worked in toddler rooms with cots or mats for a while and I never found a way to get more than four to sleep at once (assuming I didn't have any that didn't just lay down and fall asleep instantly), but I couldn't put more than three to sleep at a time if I 100% followed state regs (regarding cot/mat spacing).

We can use potty chairs here if they are cleaned and sanitized completely between each use. I've never met a provider who actually used them though.

What are your four steps for washing dishes?

[nannyde]

Center workers have some supervision and some cameras. Home providers don't.

I think abuse is going to come from this.

[nannyde]

State by state they are regulating out infant care. When you have one year olds on mats you are fundamentally changing the business. It is going to be where there isn't money there for the work.

[Febby]

Center workers have some supervision and some cameras. Home providers don't.

I think abuse is going to come from this.

Abuse already does come from naptime issues for both center workers and home providers. A center I used to work at put pillows over the heads of children who didn't sleep while holding them down onto their mat/cot. Their motto was 'they'll sleep if you make them.' I didn't stay there long and the center was later shut down. And I remember hearing stories years ago of a home provider wrapping her children up in carpets for naptime, though I've never been able to verify that one.

But, yes, abuse is likely to come from this. ANYTHING that increases stress for the provider(s) is going to increase the risk of abuse.

[Febby]

Although, for the record, the sleep regs I mentioned in my previous post apply to certified and licensed homes as well as licensed centers in my state.

[NoMoreJuice!]

I have so much to say on this subject, so bear with me!

In Kansas, on July 1st, 2010, we had a law go into effect called Lexie's Law. In addition to a million other things, one of the new regs stated that all children ages 12 months+ be placed on a nap mat or cot to sleep. The reason for this law was because of the death of a little girl named Lexie, who had climbed out of her pack and play and fallen between the backside and the staircase. The provider went upstairs and left the kids napping unsupervised. In addition to changing where kids sleep, the law also changed the way we monitor them, visually checking every 15 minutes, and when they are awake they must always be in our line of sight. If you want to read more about Lexie's story, here's a link:

http://www.kumc.edu/news-listing-page/lexies-law-helps-improve-child-care-standards.html

Last October, I went to a provider's update like I do every fall, to hear about things going on with regs at the state and local levels. It's a great way to interact with our surveyors and ask questions, and I LOVE that my county puts it on every year. Anyway, we broke into groups for a group exercise, and as we went around the circle talking about who we were, I got literal chills down my spine when I found out I was sitting next to Lexie's mom. Kim has spent the last decade trying to make changes to child care here in Kansas, and while most of it is for the best I believe, I found out something that made me very angry. She looked me straight in the eye and told me that people like me (and therefore almost all of us here on the forum) have no business watching children in our HOUSE, and that children can only be kept safe in a tightly regulated and supervised center. I merely told her I disagreed, but didn't fight with her. I know the big fight will be in Topeka in the coming years.

Ok, going back to the nap mats...I know you all sound horrified, but I truly do get all my kids to sleep 2+ hours every day. I have 12 kids, and right now four of them are under 21 months. I've had several babies in the past that I had in a pack and play, then moved to a nap mat on their first birthday. I've never had to hold them down, but we do sit and pat their backs for the first week or so when they first start. Now, we lay down with our blankies, say goodnight, and that's that. They're normally so exhausted from playing that they go right down without a fuss. This is also where I'm really glad we have a strict schedule that is perfectly consistent every day. 11:30, lunch, 12:00 diaper changes/potty, 12:15 read books, 12:30 lights out. They all know what to expect, and they all know they must stay on their mats, which are always placed in the same spot. Some of the older kids can have a puzzle if they wake up early, but it's very rare. So it's possible, and don't panic if your state starts requiring this. Hope this helps!

[Josiegirl]

NoMoreJuice, you must have assistants working with you by the sounds of it? Do you think that makes a difference? I guess it still makes the same ratio so probably not.
Maybe we're just anticipating a problem where there wouldn't be any in reality. Some kids just have a really hard time knowing there are others nearby, KWIM? They want to get up and play. Or for instance, I have 2 3 yos that don't sleep every day so all they want to do is stand up and look at each other. I'm constantly ushering them back into their proper places.
I always just assumed if the child showed no signs of attempting to climb out then it's okay.

[Play Care]

I believe that these changes are designed to further reduce the amount of children a provider takes on, and is one more way the States are trying to be rid of in home day cares. The motto must be "Let's make it nearly impossible so they either have to hire help, or quit!" I don't think they like providers being alone in the home.

Last May we had a slew of new regulations. I lost my upstairs napping room which had been approved for 9 years. Because of this I can no longer really have school aged kids on vacations because I have no where for them to be. So less kids.
Kids who don't nap are not supposed to be put down at all - where it used to be 30 minutes and then be let up. I refuse to take kids who don't nap, but I know my licensor didn't like that when she heard it
Oh well, they can tell me what I have to do once I get them here, but as of yet they can't make me take them on...yet...

But for me the question is - And are kids safer? The one family I let go because of napping issues wound up hiring a private nanny who could do all the things I'm not allowed to do per regs.
And I've heard of other parents doing the same things - purposely looking for unlicenesed care (casual babysitters, private nannies, family, etc) because of the regulations. In some cases we could say that these families probably are not cut out for Day Care, but that's not the case for all of them. I believe many families are turned off by the inordinate amount of regulations and find other options. They're not just pushing the in homes out of business, they are pushing families away from licensed care. At least in my area.

[Second Home]

Some of the regs. people were dissing were things such as nothing in a child's crib if they're under a year. No blankets, no cloth diaper, books, stuffed animals, nada.

This is what we already have here .

Another was as soon as the ground freezes, no more climbing/swinging, etc. equipment can be used. Everybody was complaining but really, isn't that why we spend tons of money? To keep the ground soft if their head hits it?
Here we do not have to put anything under our swings , but if we do it must be at least 12 inches deep . This really wouldn't bother me .

One I don't agree with is it'll be mandatory to move 12 month olds and up(if they are walkers) to a cot or mat.
We have regs that state only with parents approval a child can be taken out of a pnp at 18 months otherwise that stay in until 2 yrs .

[Josiegirl]

[I]

Here we do not have to put anything under our swings , but if we do it must be at least 12 inches deep . This really wouldn't bother me .

Now see, that I don't understand??:confused: You don't have to put anything on your playground but if you do, it's gotta be 12" deep? Where is the logic in that, maybe someone can explain it to me? Is that your whole play yard or just under swings? Maybe it makes a difference? Is it anything over 3'? I'm hoping I don't come off sounding snarky, I'm really curious.

[BabyMonkeys]

My playpens are 26 inches deep. There are ones on the market that are 19. That's the difference of two YEARS of growth between the first and third year.

What kind of playpens do you have? I have one little guy 21m that I've resorted to putting in a sleep sack on occasion because he likes to climb out.