Time Out and Nap Issues

[craftymissbeth]

I have a 3 yo dcb who will not sit in TO. He immediately tries to jump out of the chair and run off.

He's this child:

https://www.daycare.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69431

Today he stripped naked (I can't find any footed pajamas in our local Wal-Mart bigger than a 12m and dcm said she only has fleece ones and those are "too hot") again today and I immediately put him TO and told said "everyone has to have clothes on here. You can get up when you're ready to put them back on". As soon as his bottom hit the chair he was up and running.. flailing like a mad man. I continued to pick him up and put him back... over and over and over until I finally gave him three options: put your clothes back on, sit in the TO chair, or go lay down in a PNP. He still just screamed, flailed, and tried to relax his body so he could slip out of my grip. I put him in the PNP, but then he climbs out.

The stripping thing will be taken care of. DCM will be told that until he stops that crazy business of stripping that he will only be accepted into care if he comes already in a pair of backwards footed pajamas.

My big issue is what in the world do you do with a child who will NOT sit in TO?

Also, today during nap he kept trying to run away so he didn't have to sleep on his nap mat. Well, here in my DC, if they cannot lay nicely on a nap mat then they have to sleep in a PNP. No options. He screamed, stripped, and climbed out of the PNP repeatedly.

How do I get this child to do the following:
A) stay in TO when I decide it's necessary for him to be in TO
B) either sleep on his nap mat nicely or sleep in a PNP nicely

:confused:

[Jack Sprat]

Can he sit on floor beside you during TO? I do that with one of my new kiddos. He sits his 3 minutes right beside me. He tries to run, I put him back. He gets to sit and watch the others play.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

I would meet with the parents. If he will not listen to you and cannot be corrected to follow the rules that are in place at daycare then WHAT are you supposed to do? Even above the time out issue is his out of control defiance issue.

I raised a child like that...
I sat next to the time out chair and put the child back every single time. Sometimes, I must have have put him back at least 35 times. Eventually he got it. If she puts me here she will KEEP putting me here until I stay. It took awhile and consistency. There really isn't much time for that in a group setting (nor are you paid enough!!!!). This little one had oppositional defiant disorder and it.was.crazy.

Just my 2 cents.

[craftymissbeth]

As soon as he is told to do/not do something he immediately runs and tries to find somewhere to hide. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells... if I try to redirect or discipline him in any way he just...freaks out.

I've tried having him sit near me but he still just tries to run.

It's a huge, huge power thing with him.

[craftymissbeth]

I would meet with the parents. If he will not listen to you and cannot be corrected to follow the rules that are in place at daycare then WHAT are you supposed to do? Even above the time out issue is his out of control defiance issue.

I raised a child like that...
I sat next to the time out chair and put the child back every single time. Sometimes, I must have have put him back at least 35 times. There really isn't much time for that in a group setting (nor are you paid enough!!!!). This little one had oppositional defiant disorder and it.was.crazy.

Yes! I've only had this child for 2 weeks now, but he reminds me of my own son when he was this age. My son's doctor was concerned about his behavior and mentioned ODD, but we cracked down hard and left no room for our son to "win" ever. It definitely helped the situation a lot, although it's still bad at times, so we never pursued an ODD diagnosis.

But this child reminds me of my son to the T. Everything is a power struggle. He gets up and runs around while eating. What do I do? Warn him that his food and drink will be thrown away if he gets up again. He gets up again. To the trash goes the food. I can't let him win... but I have a very strong feeling that his parents do let him. He's the youngest of 4 boys.

[JoseyJo]

I would meet with the parents. There really isn't much time for that in a group setting (nor are you paid enough!!!!). [/B].

This was my thought- you aren't paid enough to have to deal with a child like this. IF the parents are 1000% on board with correcting the issue with them and with you in a way that will work for you- I would term. A child like this will keep you from filling other spots and can even cause parents of your other children to pull. Not. worth. it!

[craftymissbeth]

This was my thought- you aren't paid enough to have to deal with a child like this. IF the parents are 1000% on board with correcting the issue with them and with you in a way that will work for you- I would term. A child like this will keep you from filling other spots and can even cause parents of your other children to pull. Not. worth. it!

Good point. I'll be talking to dcm here in 30 minutes. I'm giving him 2 weeks to shape up and show me considerable improvement or they're termed.

He was kicked out of his last daycare because the provider couldn't deal with it anymore. DCM was very honest and up front about all of his issues at the interview so I decided to give it a shot. She's very ready to fix his issues, but I'm starting to see that there may be something more going on than just a basic discipline issue... although I also have the feeling that he's babied at home maybe a little.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Good point. I'll be talking to dcm here in 30 minutes. I'm giving him 2 weeks to shape up and show me considerable improvement or they're termed.

He was kicked out of his last daycare because the provider couldn't deal with it anymore. DCM was very honest and up front about all of his issues at the interview so I decided to give it a shot. She's very ready to fix his issues, but I'm starting to see that there may be something more going on than just a basic discipline issue... although I also have the feeling that he's babied at home maybe a little.

I think that is very FAIR to his parents. They must get on board with having him become a functional member of society or else they will have to deal with the hardship of finding someone to take care of him who can handle that (nanny, perhaps?).

[Blackcat31]

Stop using time outs. They honestly are not productive IME and especially not for kids under 4.

What is he doing that warrants the TO? Just wondering...I'm interested in the details of what happens before he "earns" himself a TO.

Ok, not what is he doing that warrants the TO but what happened right before he stripped his clothes off?


I may have some strategies to get him on track. I HAD this child. Like literally gave birth to him. That's why I am a daycare provider instead of a lawyer, like I wanted to be. Well...my child didn't strip but he did other things that were similar...

[cheerfuldom]

I don't do Timeouts.

But I also would refuse to take him if he wasnt brought in backwards jammies with one spare jammie set.

His behavior is out of control so even if you get the clothing issue addressed, it sounds like there is a lot more to tackle. The mom says she is ready to work with you but yet won't even bring one set of jammies to daycare? wow. I think you better listen to her actions and not just her words. Doesn't sound like she is willing to do much at all.

I would absolutely put that two weeks probation in effect. There is no way I am wrestling with a 3 year. I have taken care of special needs kids before but I dont do physical restraining, major nap issues and the rest of that disruptive behavior.

[daycare]

Stop using time outs. They honestly are not productive IME and especially not for kids under 4.

What is he doing that warrants the TO? Just wondering...I'm interested in the details of what happens before he "earns" himself a TO.

Ok, not what is he doing that warrants the TO but what happened right before he stripped his clothes off?


I may have some strategies to get him on track. I HAD this child. Like literally gave birth to him. That's why I am a daycare provider instead of a lawyer, like I wanted to be. Well...my child didn't strip but he did other things that were similar...

this is what I asked last week when you first posted about this. why is the child doing this? why is he taking off his clothes?

can you try to observe what happens right before he explodes and goes into these fits of anger that causes him to strip down?

[craftymissbeth]

Stop using time outs. They honestly are not productive IME and especially not for kids under 4.

What is he doing that warrants the TO? Just wondering...I'm interested in the details of what happens before he "earns" himself a TO.

Ok, not what is he doing that warrants the TO but what happened right before he stripped his clothes off?


I may have some strategies to get him on track. I HAD this child. Like literally gave birth to him. That's why I am a daycare provider instead of a lawyer, like I wanted to be. Well...my child didn't strip but he did other things that were similar...

Wait now I'm so confused.... BC, this is your advice last week...

Personally, I would not have this power struggle with him.

If he strips, he sits.

He can participate as soon as he puts his clothes back on.

That's it. No fan fare, no arguing, no discussion, no bargaining, no power struggle, no attention. NOTHING.

While I do agree with Nan that the backwards footed pajama's will work I have to wonder...what's next? How is he going to learn that he cannot take his clothes off just because he is upset?

Granted the footed PJ's will stop him for now but what is it teaching him?

It's a cure for today but what about tomorrow?

The stripping can be the result of any number of things. Nap time. Telling him it's time to change his pull up. Time to wash hands. Time to eat.

These are ALL things that are unavoidable. He WAS stripping any time I had to redirect him for rough housing or being rough with my toys/furniture, but I have been trying to keep him busy and separated so he doesn't do those things. I moved lunch up 30 minutes to 11:00 and I'm not willing to move it up further to avoid him being hungry. I moved nap up 30 minutes to 11:30 and that's not getting moved up further to avoid him being tired. I'm not battling him when it comes to meal times... if he's not hungry or wants to get up and down up and down that's fine. His food gets thrown out and he goes back to the play room. I even have him in a high chair one and he STILL thinks he can get up after about 10 seconds. That's fine with me... he can get up... but he's not getting the option to finish the meal later when HE decides to grace the group with his presence.


I understand what both BC and daycare are saying, but maybe instead of 'skip the footed pajamas and teach him how to deal' it would be more helpful to give me ideas in how to actually execute doing that. A specific plan of action is most definitely what I need.

[daycare]

I get that this must be very frustrating for you and all of the children.

It really sounds like this little guy is starving for attention and is willing to go to extremes to get it.

First off great job on keeping him busy. It sounds like he needs that.

Do you recall what I wrote last week about being proactive and sitting down to talk to this guy when he is not angry or upset. pull him aside sit down with him and play with clay or such, ask him what makes him so upset that he takes his clothing off. get to know him and make a connection with him.

it is obvious that he has no clue on how to cope with his emotions. you can help him come up with some strategies about what he can do BEFORE he hits the strip and explode button. I used to have a kid that would explode and this is what I did.

when i saw him getting to that point of a little upset, I got some hand lotion and put it on his hand so that he could rub them together. then I would turn the light off and say softly while rubbing my own hands together, him doing the same, you are calm and safe, you are ok. do it until he calms. this will help him gain control of his emotions so that you can then talk to him. this sounds silly, but it works. i learned this at a behavior management shop 10 years ago.

once he is calm talk calmly to him setting the tone and find out how you can help him. encourage him to use his words and validate how he feels.

I love doing this with kids that are out of control. try it. let me know how it goes.

[daycare]

I get that this must be very frustrating for you and all of the children.

It really sounds like this little guy is starving for attention and is willing to go to extremes to get it.

First off great job on keeping him busy. It sounds like he needs that.

Do you recall what I wrote last week about being proactive and sitting down to talk to this guy when he is not angry or upset. pull him aside sit down with him and play with clay or such, ask him what makes him so upset that he takes his clothing off. get to know him and make a connection with him.

it is obvious that he has no clue on how to cope with his emotions. you can help him come up with some strategies about what he can do BEFORE he hits the strip and explode button. I used to have a kid that would explode and this is what I did.

when i saw him getting to that point of a little upset, I got some hand lotion and put it on his hand so that he could rub them together. then I would turn the light off and say softly while rubbing my own hands together, him doing the same, you are calm and safe, you are ok. do it until he calms. this will help him gain control of his emotions so that you can then talk to him. this sounds silly, but it works. i learned this at a behavior management shop 10 years ago.

once he is calm talk calmly to him setting the tone and find out how you can help him. encourage him to use his words and validate how he feels.

I love doing this with kids that are out of control. try it. let me know how it goes.

I forgot to add that if you now know his trigger that it is before he has to do something I would tell him this.

joey we are going to wash our hands in 2 minutes. lets play cars until then. This will give him time to adjust to the idea. If he throws a tantrum, just move on without him. do not put him in time out do not talk to him do not do anything. get the lotion, put it on his hands and do as I suggest above.

[Blackcat31]

Wait now I'm so confused.... BC, this is your advice last week...

I know. I don't mean to be confusing..... I was just thinking that it isn't working. If he isn't responding to the consequence (TO) then I would stop using it. I got the impression that his behavior hasn't stopped or improved so I was trying to come at it from another angle.


TO is the "preferred" method if guidance here and although I have it listed in my discipline plan, I try not to use it if I can help it. For some kids, it works great....for others, it just adds fuel to the fire.

The stripping can be the result of any number of things. Nap time. Telling him it's time to change his pull up. Time to wash hands. Time to eat.

These are ALL things that are unavoidable. He WAS stripping any time I had to redirect him for rough housing or being rough with my toys/furniture, but I have been trying to keep him busy and separated so he doesn't do those things. I moved lunch up 30 minutes to 11:00 and I'm not willing to move it up further to avoid him being hungry. I moved nap up 30 minutes to 11:30 and that's not getting moved up further to avoid him being tired. I'm not battling him when it comes to meal times... if he's not hungry or wants to get up and down up and down that's fine. His food gets thrown out and he goes back to the play room. I even have him in a high chair one and he STILL thinks he can get up after about 10 seconds. That's fine with me... he can get up... but he's not getting the option to finish the meal later when HE decides to grace the group with his presence.


I understand what both BC and daycare are saying, but maybe instead of 'skip the footed pajamas and teach him how to deal' it would be more helpful to give me ideas in how to actually execute doing that. A specific plan of action is most definitely what I need.

..I gotta go really quick but I'll try to come back and finish what I was saying