Apologizing

[fctjc1979]

I thought this was in the "how long can you keep a child in time out" thread but couldn't find it so I'll just start a new thread.

Somewhere the other day, someone mentioned that part of their discipline process for things like hitting was making the offender apologize to the victim.

I've never forced anyone to apologize. But I've been told I'm dead wrong on my reasoning, but here it is anyway.

The first reason I don't is that I think it's yet another violation of the victim. Most places that make the offender apologize also make the victim respond kindly to the offender once the apology is made. To my way of thinking, the victim should be able to choose to ignore the offender. Maybe they aren't ready to talk to the child that just wacked them with a plastic truck. If the apology is forced, the victim knows the child doesn't really feel sorry about what they did.

The second reason is that, for the offender, a forced apology is completely empty of meaning. And in some cases, it's just a way to get back to playing with the group. They feel nothing for the child they hurt, they just want to go back to playing with their friends or the toys.

I guess, to me, there should be no apology unless the child wants to apologize. Sometimes I might ask a child if they would like to apologize if our conversation leads me to believe they are sorry for what they did. I do this because they may just have not thought about it yet. They're kids and just got in trouble for something so their focus may just not have swung from themselves to the victim yet.

I know that, as caregivers, we are supposed to teach children how to be successful in society and part of that is teaching them the norms and values of society, but is forcing them to do it really teaching them? And why is it that those that have told me that I'm wrong have never been able to explain why I'm wrong? If I am wrong, which has happened , I would really like to know the reason.

[jen]

I don't think your are necessarily wrong, I think it is one of those judgement things. Personally, I do make kids apologize...generally to the ENTIRE group when age approriate.

Say Susie hits Tommy. I would tell Susie that she has broken the rules of my home, she has hurt another person and all her friends have had to stop our activity to deal with her poor choices. I am very unhappy about that and so are her friends. She needs to apologize to me for breaking my rules, to her friends for interrupting our play time, and to Tommy for hurting him. She is then prohibited from returning to the group activity and may sit and look at books at the table until we have finished.

DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about toddlers, but children who are old enough to understand. If they can understand what they did is wrong they can understand the consequences. And, for those who want to say that it is wrong to "shame" a child by making them publicly apologize...they should be ashamed, they hit someone! Personally, I think that the whole, "let's not shame the child thing" is where we are going wrong as a society. No, we shouldn't shame a child for an accident, but it is OK to be ashamed if we hurt another person, intentionally or carelessly damage someones property, or take something that doesn't belong to us.

[misol]

DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about toddlers, but children who are old enough to understand. If they can understand what they did is wrong they can understand the consequences. And, for those who want to say that it is wrong to "shame" a child by making them publicly apologize...they should be ashamed, they hit someone! Personally, I think that the whole, "let's not shame the child thing" is where we are going wrong as a society. No, we shouldn't shame a child for an accident, but it is OK to be ashamed if we hurt another person, intentionally or carelessly damage someones property, or take something that doesn't belong to us.

Ohhh Jen, this is so true!

[jen]

Ohhh Jen, this is so true!

Thanks! I was zipping up my flame suit! LOL! There are those who think my theory is "mean."

[sahm2three]

I do have the offender apologize because I think it is the right thing to do. If you hurt someone in any way, you OWE that person the decency of an apology. I don't allow the offender to re-enter the group after the time out until I see that they are calm. After the time out we talk about why what they did was wrong. I ask them if they like it when people hit them or throw toys at them and of course they say no. I ask why and they usually respond with a version of "because it hurts". Then if they are still mopey or mad acting, we color or draw until they have relaxed. Then I have the offender apologize to the victim and tell them WHY what they did was wrong. I don't ever tell the victim to say "its ok" or anything like that. That is what I do, and as you can see in the "how long can you put a child in time out" thread, it works for some, but not all. In my dc, it works for EVERYONE but the one I spoke of. I am still trying to figure something out with him. I had a long conversation with the mom last night, and she is as at a loss as I am. I feel bad because I think he gets lost in the shuffle, so I think he is acting out for attention. Sad. This whole thing has me at a loss as to how to handle him. I feel like I took quite a beating in the other thread, which doesn't help my already shaken confidence.

[MN Mom]

I have always taught my children that they MUST apologize when they have done wrong by someone. Of course, I chew them out...always asking if they understand everything they have done wrong, why it was wrong, and by this time they are normally crying. Once I'm sure they have understood their wrongdoing, I say : Now you go aplogize to your sister / brother/ friend, and give hugs. I never make the victim forgive, I leave it up to them...but 99% of the time they forgive. How would you feel if you were the victim, and didn't get an apology? I would feel like no one was fighting on my behalf. Thats just a personal opinion. It works well for my kids in their dicipline regiment. I don't normally like to brag, but my children are extremely well behaved in public and with friends / family. I can take all 4 with me anywhere, and the never act out of line, scream, cry, beg, tantrum...NEVER. They are pretty good kids at home too, most of the time .... but there are days!!

Treat others as you would like to be treated. When you are wrong, admit it. These are the things I teach my kids. Owning up to mistakes is one of the HARDEST lessons in life, so I want to make sure they are prepared.

[nannyde]

I don't do the apologizing. The oldest kid in my house is normally 4-5 so I don't think they are really old enough to understand remorse. I focus on the behavior, consequence, and the understanding of not to do it again. I would much rather have a kid tell another kid "I won't do that again" then "I'm sorry".

My son got the "I'm sorry" bug from school. It's annoying. He thinks he can act up and spew "I'm sorry" and he gets to go about his merry way. It becomes the end of the conversaton or a way to get to the end of the conversation.

It's like time out. It's an easy out.

[sahm2three]

"It's like time out. It's an easy out. "

Why is it an easy out? It is most definately NOT easy. Maybe if that is all that you did, but if it is accompanied by a conversation, why is it an easy way out? That is ridiculous.

[nannyde]

"It's like time out. It's an easy out. "

Why is it an easy out? It is most definately NOT easy. Maybe if that is all that you did, but if it is accompanied by a conversation, why is it an easy way out? That is ridiculous.

How much more explanation do you need? I don't do the apologizing. The oldest kid in my house is normally 4-5 so I don't think they are really old enough to understand remorse. I focus on the behavior, consequence, and the understanding of not to do it again. I would much rather have a kid tell another kid "I won't do that again" then "I'm sorry".

I don't think my kids are old enough to understand "I'm sorry". I think they ARE old enough to commit to not doing something again. I focus on: recognize what you did was wrong. Tell me you know it's wrong. Show me what you could have done "right". Make a plan to do it right when it comes up again.

The words "I'm sorry" are said in a split second. This technique is used all over the country and the kids as little as two get the idea that all they have to do is spew "I'm sorry" and there is the end of the deal. They go to that quick because it means they get a Finnegan Beginagain. I don't play that.

Their parents like it too because it's fast and absolute. What better than a two word sentence and all is well? NO It wouldn't matter if you taught them to say "green eggs". It would mean the same.

Now when they are getting to be around five or so THEN you can start discussing feeling badly about what you have done and BEGIN to understand the impact it has on others. At that age you can begin to "get" how it would feel to be the guy who was on the receiving end of your actions as long as it is something you have actually experienced.

They can't for example be "I'm sorry" for breaking something that is expensive and difficult to replace because they haven't had to "replace" anything in their lives. They can understand how it feels to have a toy swiped from them. "I'm sorry" only works when they can actually put themselves into the place of the one who was wronged. THEN .. AFTER you have done the work of understanding and commitment to do the right thing... THEN you can get to can you feel sorry?

I don't use it with kids that can't get it. It's too easily manipulated into an "end game" move. I'm not talking about day care kids cuz my babies are babies. My son... he is the master at trying to get to I'm sorry as fast as the conversation will allow.

Saying "i'm sorry" signifies to the child that they have DONE something right. It's a move on their part that is quick and painless. Two seconds and we are home.. nearing home... get to start over. NOPE.

Like I said.. it's an "easy" button just like time out. Nan don't play easy.

[sahm2three]

I don't do the apologizing. The oldest kid in my house is normally 4-5 so I don't think they are really old enough to understand remorse. I focus on the behavior, consequence, and the understanding of not to do it again. I would much rather have a kid tell another kid "I won't do that again" then "I'm sorry".

My son got the "I'm sorry" bug from school. It's annoying. He thinks he can act up and spew "I'm sorry" and he gets to go about his merry way. It becomes the end of the conversaton or a way to get to the end of the conversation.

It's like time out. It's an easy out.

How much more explanation do you need? I don't do the apologizing. The oldest kid in my house is normally 4-5 so I don't think they are really old enough to understand remorse. I focus on the behavior, consequence, and the understanding of not to do it again. I would much rather have a kid tell another kid "I won't do that again" then "I'm sorry".

I don't think my kids are old enough to understand "I'm sorry". I think they ARE old enough to commit to not doing something again. I focus on: recognize what you did was wrong. Tell me you know it's wrong. Show me what you could have done "right". Make a plan to do it right when it comes up again.

The words "I'm sorry" are said in a split second. This technique is used all over the country and the kids as little as two get the idea that all they have to do is spew "I'm sorry" and there is the end of the deal. They go to that quick because it means they get a Finnegan Beginagain. I don't play that.

Their parents like it too because it's fast and absolute. What better than a two word sentence and all is well? NO It wouldn't matter if you taught them to say "green eggs". It would mean the same.

Now when they are getting to be around five or so THEN you can start discussing feeling badly about what you have done and BEGIN to understand the impact it has on others. At that age you can begin to "get" how it would feel to be the guy who was on the receiving end of your actions as long as it is something you have actually experienced.

They can't for example be "I'm sorry" for breaking something that is expensive and difficult to replace because they haven't had to "replace" anything in their lives. They can understand how it feels to have a toy swiped from them. "I'm sorry" only works when they can actually put themselves into the place of the one who was wronged. THEN .. AFTER you have done the work of understanding and commitment to do the right thing... THEN you can get to can you feel sorry?

I don't use it with kids that can't get it. It's too easily manipulated into an "end game" move. I'm not talking about day care kids cuz my babies are babies. My son... he is the master at trying to get to I'm sorry as fast as the conversation will allow.

Saying "i'm sorry" signifies to the child that they have DONE something right. It's a move on their part that is quick and painless. Two seconds and we are home.. nearing home... get to start over. NOPE.

Like I said.. it's an "easy" button just like time out. Nan don't play easy.

I am not asking about the I'm Sorry. I am asking about the Time Outs. No need to be condescending. Really.

[fctjc1979]

I have always taught my children that they MUST apologize when they have done wrong by someone. Of course, I chew them out...always asking if they understand everything they have done wrong, why it was wrong, and by this time they are normally crying. Once I'm sure they have understood their wrongdoing, I say : Now you go aplogize to your sister / brother/ friend, and give hugs. I never make the victim forgive, I leave it up to them...but 99% of the time they forgive. How would you feel if you were the victim, and didn't get an apology? I would feel like no one was fighting on my behalf. Thats just a personal opinion. It works well for my kids in their dicipline regiment. I don't normally like to brag, but my children are extremely well behaved in public and with friends / family. I can take all 4 with me anywhere, and the never act out of line, scream, cry, beg, tantrum...NEVER. They are pretty good kids at home too, most of the time .... but there are days!!

Treat others as you would like to be treated. When you are wrong, admit it. These are the things I teach my kids. Owning up to mistakes is one of the HARDEST lessons in life, so I want to make sure they are prepared.

I HAVE been a victim that DID get an apology that I knew was forced and thought it was completely useless. In my experience as a mother and a childcare provider, those that aren't forced to apologize end up apologizing at some point, maybe not the same day, becuase they realize by the victim's reaction that what they did hurt them and they do eventually feel sorry about it. If they've already been forced to apologize, this cheats the victim out of the real apology that comes later. Just my opinion based on what I've seen happen over and over again. I would have to agree with Nannyde, that saying I'm sorry when it's not really meant, is another cop out. It's too easy to get around dealing with the actual issue. OR the child who was forced to apologize comes to apply a negative connotation to apologies and you end up with kids and adults that can't seem to apologize even when they know they should because they see it as part of a punishment.

[fctjc1979]

I don't think your are necessarily wrong, I think it is one of those judgement things. Personally, I do make kids apologize...generally to the ENTIRE group when age approriate.

Say Susie hits Tommy. I would tell Susie that she has broken the rules of my home, she has hurt another person and all her friends have had to stop our activity to deal with her poor choices. I am very unhappy about that and so are her friends. She needs to apologize to me for breaking my rules, to her friends for interrupting our play time, and to Tommy for hurting him. She is then prohibited from returning to the group activity and may sit and look at books at the table until we have finished.

DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about toddlers, but children who are old enough to understand. If they can understand what they did is wrong they can understand the consequences. And, for those who want to say that it is wrong to "shame" a child by making them publicly apologize...they should be ashamed, they hit someone! Personally, I think that the whole, "let's not shame the child thing" is where we are going wrong as a society. No, we shouldn't shame a child for an accident, but it is OK to be ashamed if we hurt another person, intentionally or carelessly damage someones property, or take something that doesn't belong to us.

I also think shame - if they SHOULD be feeling shame - is very useful. I really like your idea of having them apologize to the entire group. I've never done it before, but it totally makes sense. I'm still not sure I like the idea of forced apologies, but I think if I were to start using them, I would have them apologize to the entire group.

[jen]

I also think shame - if they SHOULD be feeling shame - is very useful. I really like your idea of having them apologize to the entire group. I've never done it before, but it totally makes sense. I'm still not sure I like the idea of forced apologies, but I think if I were to start using them, I would have them apologize to the entire group.

I agree with Nanny in that kids this age don't really feel remorse. I do think however that learning that one has to be accountable, that it doesn't feel good, and that it is an "uncomfortable" feeling is a useful tool. Right now they are the center of their own universe, they really aren't wired to have a strong moral compass or empathy for others...it's all about THEM and making THEM uncomfortable enough not to do it again.

[Janet]

Apologies

I don't do the whole "apologizing" thing and this is why. Kids who are told to apologize start to associate saying "sorry" with automatically getting out of trouble. If a child chooses to apologize, then that's fine, but the consequence is still in effect. Kids learn that they can do what they want and then just throw a "sorry" out there. They don't even have to mean it. To me, "I'm sorry" are just words. I tell them not to be sorry, just make better choices.

[JRiffee]

Apologizing

I don't necessarily agree with forcing an apology but I do agree with TEACHING children the how, when, and why's of apologizing and also the victim should/can learn forgiveness.