Saying I'm Sorry...

[Blackcat31]

Okay so I have a 3 1/2 yr old dcb who is having a bit of a hitting issue. We have had a lot of discussions about not hitting and using our words instead. Anyways, this morning he came in and while playing in the block area, he hit an 18 month old dcg in the side of the head. I'm not really positive if he did it on purpose or if it was an accident because I had a parent dropping off and they were all getting kind of crazy...so a bit later, I actually saw him get kind of huffy because 18 mos old dcg was taking some of his blocks and he balled up his hand and hit her on the side of the head again! Now I know it was on purpose because I saw the whole thing. I had him sit in time-out and after 3 minutes, I told him he had to apologize. He said, "Nope!" and crossed his arms and refused. I told him he had to apologize before he could go back and play. He says no every time I tell him to say I'm sorry. I can't very well leave him in time-out until he complies (which I wish sometimes I could!! LOL!) It is now obviously a power struggle and he is just being stubborn. If I let the whole situation slide, he wins....so....!??!

Oh, and mom called to tell me something and I told her what was going on. She said, "Make him stay in time-out until he says he is sorry." I'm seriously wishing I could without it seeming excessive or harsh, but really, what do I do?!?!?

[DCMomOf3]

I have had this too with a dck of mine. I will approach during time out every 3 minutes and ask if they are ready to behave, if they say no, I say it's your choice to stay on time-out, not mine. When you are ready to behave, you can get up. They are choosing to sit out, you are not forcing them. It's a power struggle, you are right, but it's important that you win.

If you don't feel comfortable leaving him in time out, you could walk him over to the other child tell him to say sorry, then put him back on time out and go through it all again until he says it. That way it's not the same time out, he is just getting them back to back until he learns that he doesn't have control over the situation.

[Jewels]

I do as the previous poster said, I had this yesterday when one of mine hit someone, and she refused to say sorry, so I kept asking her every couple minutes, and then I turned on the music for dance time, and I knew she wanted to participate, so I asked her again to say sorry, and she finally did, but she was more than happy to sit on time out rather that apologize so I left her there, I think your just letting him win by letting him off without aoplogizing, he is old enough to be able to apologize, and old enough to follow simple direction, why do you feel its bad to have him continue to sit there?

[Blackcat31]

I have had this too with a dck of mine. I will approach during time out every 3 minutes and ask if they are ready to behave, if they say no, I say it's your choice to stay on time-out, not mine. When you are ready to behave, you can get up. They are choosing to sit out, you are not forcing them. It's a power struggle, you are right, but it's important that you win.

If you don't feel comfortable leaving him in time out, you could walk him over to the other child tell him to say sorry, then put him back on time out and go through it all again until he says it. That way it's not the same time out, he is just getting them back to back until he learns that he doesn't have control over the situation.

That is EXACTLY what I've been doing since 8 a.m. this morning! He still refuses. I am thinking, seriously, why would you want to be so stubborn?!?!? So I guess I'm looking to see if others think that it is okay to do this...because it will be ALL day because this kid is honestly more stubborn than anyone I've ever met! It is going to be a looooong day.........But I suppose the point is I don't let him win. UHGG!

[Blackcat31]

why do you feel its bad to have him continue to sit there?

I just feel like if a kid sits in time out for an excessive amount of time it loses it's value or point I guess. Sort of like lecturing your teenager, they say after the first few minutes, everything else is just blah blah blah and they don't even hear. So I was thinking time-out was suppose to be short term according to their age and if it goes longer, it isn't doing what it was suppose to do.
But I can see how if the child chooses to sit if he will not apologize then it would be his choice, not me punishing him. So I will let him sit and continue asking him if he is ready to apologize and see what happens....

[laundryduchess@yahoo.com]

I make them my shadow,... I have a 3 yr who is my shadow today, he has punched ALL day! everyone but his baby sister!!!! so he has sat beside me or at the kitchen table since 6 am! ughghhhhh

[Lilbutterflie]

Any update? Has he caved in yet??

I have had situations before with excessive timeouts in which I have called dcp and informed that due to excessively bad behavior for the day, and not being able to play nicely with the other kids, "Jill" will no longer be allowed to play with any other children for the day. She is sitting in her own space on the floor with some books until her pick up time.
I have felt bad for doing this, but believe me they get warnings and timeouts galore before it comes to this. So by continuing their bad behavior they have CHOSEN the consequence.

[Blackcat31]

Any update? Has he caved in yet??

Nope, he is still sitting. We went for a walk and all the kids hold loops on a walking rope, which they LOVE and I made him hold onto the stroller I was pushing. He was very PO'ed, but would still not apologize. Stubborn little guy! We came back in and had lunch. He ate and chatted like everyone else and when lunch was over, I asked really casually, "Do you want to apologize to Julie yet?" He just walked straight over to the time-out chair and sat down and crossed his arms. I guess the answer was no. Mom even called and checked on progress and when she asked to talk with him, he refused so he is sitting still. I'm soooo glad mom is being supportive.
I will keep you posted and let you know if he ever apologizes. The other kids probably think I am crazy because I have been making a REALLY big deal about the other kids apologizing and using good manners. They just sort of look at me like :confused:?!?!

[Live and Learn]

the only hitter I have ever had was years ago ...a little toddler who would only hit his four year old sister or mom. Never me or any other kid. I gave him a time out and made him give sissy a hug. I never give time outs for anything but hitting or biting so it was a big deal to go into timeout. I said in my growling mean mommy voice "no hitting" I think I have a smaller group than most of you...no more than four so it is easy for me to nip tensions in the bud before they build up to the hitting stage. Same little guy was a handful about lots of other little issues. I eventually termed him for parenting issues. He hit his mom at pickup and she would generally just ignore it. If I stepped in to stop him from hitting his mom she would look at me like I was overstepping my bounds. Mom would complain and complain about his horrible manners but never laid down the law with him.
In conclusion....I told his mom that I don't allow hitting here period. I think that she was worried that I might term because whatever she told him it worked. He never hit here again.
I would go h,a,r,d,c,o,r,e on her and tell her that you will be calling her at work to pick him up if he hits even once tomorrow or anytime in the future.
You owe it to the rest of the children in your care to protect them. can you imagine what another dc parent would think if they thought you were letting him get away with hitting their child everyday...?

[busymomof2]

I have a couple of 4yo that refuse to say sorry sometimes even after prompted repeatedly and time out. So I don't force the child to say sorry because they really don't mean it at that point. I also don't keep them in time out beyond their 4 minutes but I know what each of my dck likes and I take it away until they say they are sorry. For example, one loves the Diego bike and gets on it everyday. I took it away until he apologized and he thought it was the end of the world. The other LOVES all things dinosaur...I took that away. It worked both times and they said they were sorry. Just an idea.

[kidkair]

Good job sticking to what you said and keeping the other kids exercising their manners
When my kids don't want to say sorry I ask if they will sign sorry instead or draw a picture showing their are sorry or at the very least give a hug. Sometimes kids just don't want to talk and then it escalates to them choosing to stay mad. I have a 3 yr old who hides his face every time I correct him and use a stern voice. I let him hide and ignore it otherwise he'll hide for a very long time and even become angry.

[Blackcat31]

So I don't force the child to say sorry because they really don't mean it at that point. I also don't keep them in time out beyond their 4 minutes but I know what each of my dck likes and I take it away until they say they are sorry. For example, one loves the Diego bike and gets on it everyday. I took it away until he apologized and he thought it was the end of the world. The other LOVES all things dinosaur...I took that away. It worked both times and they said they were sorry. Just an idea.

I agree about them not really meaning it after a certain amount of time, hence the concern about leaving them to choose time-out for so long versus apologizing. I do, however, not only require the kids to say they are sorry, I also have them say something along the lines of, " I know when I hit you that it hurt, I am sorry for hitting you. Next time I will use my words." Obviously this is tweaked depending on the age of the child. I think that in order for kids to know and understand empathy they need to use it in social settings with their peers. We also use sign language as well so he had that option. I honestly believe it isn't about apologizing. It is more about who is in control.
He is still choosing to sit. But I have a feeling he is coming around because the other kids are inviting him to join them. We will be going outside again shortly and he LOVES outside time, so ..........(I have a helper here so I may take the outside priviledge away and see if that makes any difference)

[QualiTcare]

instead of trying to make him say he's sorry.....the MINUTE he hits another child, comfort that child who got hit and tell the child who got hit to "tell him you don't like that" and the child who got hit will usually say to the boy's face, "i don't like that" or "that hurt - why'd you do that" or something along those lines. he'll respond in some way - "you took my toy" or "i didn't mean to" or SOMETHING.

it tempts the "offender" a little more to apologize when the person they hurt is confronting them than if someone unrelated is trying to make them do something they don't wanna do.

[Blackcat31]

Thank you everyone for such good suggestions! Gotta give credit to a 3 year old who is so stubborn. If given the right opportunities that stubborness could become perserverance! Anyways, he FINALLY apologized yesterday right after he realized we were going outside without him. He even apologized to me for being so stubborn! Gotta love kids...no matter how frustrated I get, they still surprise me everyday!
As the previous poster mentioned about having the "victim" say something to the hitter; that is a great idea except in my situation, the victim was 18 mos old and not very verbal (atleast not much that is audible). And we always make a practice of attending to the injured party long before we address the offender. This way the offender can visually see how his actions affected someone else and they have the opportunity to right the situation. In this instance, the hitter bolted to the other room while we comforted the "victim". The hitter went and hid under the big climber so it was obvious, he knew he was wrong, just didn't want to face the music.
But all is well that ends well and bottom line is I won this loooong power struggle for control because this little guy now has been "preaching" the importance of using our words and saying we are sorry when we all morning to the other kids. I can at least take some comfort in knowing he learned a lesson that had some impact.

[MommyMuffin]

That is wonderful! Shows that being consistent in your guidance can work even if you have to keep it up all day long. Not to say he will never hit again but next time he may say he is sorry much earlier.